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Old June 12, 2009, 11:35 AM   #601
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The car parked in front of the store was in no way affiliated or involved. Mitchell, one of the persons also charged with Parker's muder, was driving a stolen silver honda, which he was arrested in. Morrison was in a black honda and was parked on the east side of the pharmacy, in which he drove away as Ersland was chasing the 14 year old down SW 58th street.

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Old June 12, 2009, 11:38 AM   #602
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After reading the warrant request, I opted to delete my post as I was under impression that was the getaway car as it seemed suspicious to be there with open trunk etc...
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Old June 12, 2009, 12:32 PM   #603
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Drug abuse?

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Does it not bother you that almost none of that actually happened the way he said it did and that he has been looking more and more like an unstable person and habitual liar with drug abuse issues as time has gone on?
I havent been following this thread real close, so I may have missed that report. If that is the case the slippery slope seems to be morphing into a cliff
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Old June 12, 2009, 12:44 PM   #604
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Sickens me to see supposed gun owners throwing this guy to the wolves with so little evidence and so little expertise.
What it does prove is that "shoot/no shoot" scenarios can have ominous consequences. And owning a deadly weapon carries with it an awesome responsibility. There is no place for vigilantism, no calling a bullet back once it's left the pipe, and life and death hangs in the balance.
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Old June 12, 2009, 12:55 PM   #605
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I hate all the Monday- Sunday morning quarterbacking from people with no prior experience in shootings. If anyone could be bothered to pick a book about stress and shootings they would find out that with extreme stress situations like this, the good guy inevitably has distorted time lines and actually they see things that aren't there. I remember a situation I was in myself. A large Brindle Pitbull was stalking my neighborhood and I came face to face with it three different times. My wife had to correct my recollection as I had to correct hers as well. I then ran into das later and actually pulled my weapon. The account given to the police was to the best of my memory but days, months later I'd remember more details.
Sickens me to see supposed gun owners throwing this guy to the wolves with so little evidence and so little expertise. My ex motherinlaw argued with me that a crazy woman with a knife out in Lancaster California years ago, was killed needlessly. The woman had a knife and threatened to use it. For a long time she held the police at bay and then charged them. She was shot and killed. Her stance was they should've shot the gun out of her hand(this was before tazers were so popular). To many episodes of gunsmoke and t.j. hooker.
That's not a good excuse considering the magnitude and number of discrepancies that are apparent in this case. I'm basing this judgment off of the statements HE gave the media right after the shooting, and their conflict with the released surveillance tapes and the DA's report. Some of us have been following this case and the data very carefully.

Just a few pretty significant discrepancies off the top of my head...

He claimed they came at him shooting and saying they were going to kill him.

Did they even fire a shot? No.

They were coming around the counter at either end. He had to have a gun in either hand to repel them.

Were they? No. Did he ever have a gun in either hand? No.

He was shot, once in the arm and he heard one shot go past his head.

Did they fire any shots at all? Again, no.

He claimed to have shot the first one in the head, then emptied the .380 in him as he chased the other robber out the door because he was getting back up.

Did he? No, he chased the second robber down the street, came back in, walked past the downed subject without concern for his safety, walked over, unlocked a cabinet, retrieved his second gun, walked back to the downed subject, still not exhibiting any concern or fear for his safety, bent down and fired the gun until slide lock into the downed robbers torso. That's a pretty significant deviation from his version of what occurred.

It was also stated that he stayed out front and engaged them because he was too crippled to retreat to the saferoom with the other employees. I would think if you can chase a perp down the street and back that you could lay down covering fire and step the 6' to the saferoom entrance.

Then you have the recent revelation that he's not really a Gulf war veteran.

This case just keeps getting worse and worse. I had a very open mind at first, and was ready to chalk some of the discrepancies up to stress, but there's just too much evidence stacking up against him.
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Old June 12, 2009, 12:56 PM   #606
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Sickens me to see supposed gun owners throwing this guy to the wolves with so little evidence and so little expertise.
Don't know about your expertise, but I spent a great deal of my younger days doing criminal defense work, and based on that Court experience, this guy deserves the wolves.

But then again, I try to be reasonable I'm a gun owner, not a gunwoobie owner

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Old June 12, 2009, 12:58 PM   #607
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What it does prove is that "shoot/no shoot" scenarios can have ominous consequences. And owning a deadly weapon carries with it an awesome responsibility. There is no place for vigilantism, no calling a bullet back once it's left the pipe, and life and death hangs in the balance.
Worthy of repeat.

Also worthy of noting that YOUR life hangs in the balance as well, as in how you spend the rest of your life.
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Old June 12, 2009, 02:21 PM   #608
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Sickens me to see supposed gun owners throwing this guy to the wolves with so little evidence and so little expertise.
1. As to evidence, If you would read back through this discussion, you will find that there has been released, a substantial amount of direct evidence. It may not be enough to persuade you in either direction, but it is there, and it is somewhat compelling.

2. As to Expertise, That is a fairly bold statement, considering you know nothing of the backgrounds of the LEO's, Physicians, mental health professionals, scientists, Lawyers, Gunsmiths, and the plethora of other fields that are represented by the posts in this thread.

Perhaps a bit of reading, rather than ranting, would be more constructive.
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Old June 12, 2009, 02:23 PM   #609
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Trooper said...
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It was also stated that he stayed out front and engaged them because he was too crippled to retreat to the saferoom with the other employees. I would think if you can chase a perp down the street and back that you could lay down covering fire and step the 6' to the saferoom entrance.
To add salt to the wound...
The guy not only was lying in all the other aspects, but he was not so crippled after pumpin' the guy full of lead aspirins... he calmly returned to behind the counter and put his guns down and picked up the phone...

I am a sufferer of back injuries and is one reason I have so many hours to waste on TFL. Had I just ducked, dodged and run out and back into the store I would be really showing signs of pain, such as using a hand to put pressure on lower back or massaging my now painful neck all while bent over. Don't get me wrong I am able to "suck it up" for a few romps in the woods but I am hurting to do so.
Anyone notice the guy did not make any attempt to go to check the others or even face in their direction and holler back to them?
Screwed Blued and Tattooed!
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Old June 12, 2009, 11:29 PM   #610
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Ye' ol' hogdogs is temporarily at an utter loss of words to form a proper, fair, TFL approved reply...
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Old June 12, 2009, 11:59 PM   #611
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I for one think this is a very serious case and am very interested in seeing how it will play out, both for Ersland and for concealed carry/self defense in Oklahoma. Lets not get this thread locked over petty rubbish shall we?

There is a reason Mr. E was charged with murder I, and saying, "the DA's a twit, Mr. E should have never been charged, Free Mr. E", won't change the fact that if we went out and pulled the same stunt, we too would find ourselves behind bars looking at a murder I charge.

Let's keep this thread constructive.

(just so everyone doesn't take me for a complete idiot, the last few posts were posted while I was typing this reply)

Last edited by Shane Tuttle; June 13, 2009 at 12:21 AM. Reason: removal of responding to invectives
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Old June 13, 2009, 12:17 AM   #612
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[QUOTEI spent a great deal of my younger days doing criminal defense work, and based on that Court experience, this guy deserves the wolves.
][/QUOTE]

This guy deserves the wolves? Why is anyone responding to this guy? He is why they say 98% of the attorneys give the other 2% a bad name.

This thread is now important in his mind only. Don't respond, that is what he wants.
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Old June 13, 2009, 12:30 AM   #613
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This guy deserves the wolves?
Well yes, are there some articulable facts you can point to that shows that he is not...

Ooops there I go being like a bad atty again, analyzing facts and law instead of just thumping mah chest and bellowing hell yeah, he shot the bad guy, goody goody, Neca eos omnes, Deus suos agnoscet.


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Old June 13, 2009, 12:40 AM   #614
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So far, I've deleted over 16 posts in just the last 1.5 pages alone. Although there was ONE member providing inflammatory remarks, several other members fed the fire by responding resulting in mass deletions.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL. Hit the report button and we'll take care of the rest. It will make my job easier, your blood pressure lower, and leave an important thread open.
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Old June 13, 2009, 12:47 AM   #615
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Tut, At first we thought we were responding to a person with just a little off base opinion. I was trying to enlighten until late tonite... Sorry we frazzled yer hair...
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Old June 13, 2009, 01:02 AM   #616
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Watched the video

Yeah, he's got some 'splaining to do, alright.

A tragedy, not for the robbers, but for the pharmacist. Lethal force is a huge responsibility. Once the round(s) go down range, your life is changed forever, perhaps not as drastically as the target's, but changed nevertheless.

Having a clear-cut case where lethal force is reasonable and justified does not give an absolute right to kill, not in combat, not in the streets, not in the home.

We'll see what the jury does, given the extenuating circumstances, and what the lawyers kick up, but it appears this guy just lost everything for a moment's foolishness.
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Old June 13, 2009, 01:03 AM   #617
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Tut, At first we thought we were responding to a person with just a little off base opinion. I was trying to enlighten until late tonite... Sorry we frazzled yer hair...
Just doin' my job.
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Old June 13, 2009, 01:50 AM   #618
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Just doin' my job.
And we appreciate it...except for the fact that it had to happen right when I finally got to use a quote from the amazing 1979 movie "The Warriors." When is that opportunity going to come around again, huh?
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Old June 13, 2009, 01:45 PM   #619
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Well, one thing is clear from this case. Buy a 45acp pistol instead of a .380...
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Old June 13, 2009, 01:59 PM   #620
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And we appreciate it...except for the fact that it had to happen right when I finally got to use a quote from the amazing 1979 movie "The Warriors." When is that opportunity going to come around again, huh?
Oh, I'm sure you know as well as I do you'll have your chance before you know it...
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Old June 13, 2009, 02:20 PM   #621
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Well, one thing is clear from this case. Buy a 45acp pistol instead of a .380...
Really? Are you entirely certain that would have changed the outcome here?

And WODR, what does that add to this discussion.

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Old June 13, 2009, 02:33 PM   #622
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Well, one thing is clear from this case. Buy a 45acp pistol instead of a .380
Actually, if you want to know the truth, it could be argued that Ersland was in illegal possesion of firearms under the law in the state of Oklahoma. Ersland's attorney himself said he was currently under the influence of a highly addictive Schedule 2 Controlled Dangerous Drug. (morphine) Morphine effects reduce a person's level of consciousness, harming the ability to think or be fully aware of present surroundings. Opiates do impair judgment.

Section 1289.9 Carrying Weapons Under the Influence
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols in any circumstances while under the influence of beer, intoxicating liquors or any hallucinogenic, or any unlawful or unprescribed drug, and it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols when under the influence of any drug prescribed by a licensed physician if the aftereffects of such consumption affect mental, emotional or physical processes to a degree that would result in abnormal behavior. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.

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Old June 13, 2009, 02:40 PM   #623
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Whoa Delta B that is an awesome point that cuts BOTH WAYS in this case......

Defense: He was in pain and not in full possession of his faculties..
Prosecution: Not a true decent citizen, a hopped up doper Rambo carrying his gun in flagrant violation of the law

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Old June 13, 2009, 02:42 PM   #624
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That dern lawyer is sure doin' a good job!!!
With a lawyer like that, who needs a prosecutor?
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Old June 13, 2009, 02:43 PM   #625
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Does this Pharmacist have a history of shooting customers?
No.
Does he have a habit of shooting robbers?
No.
Does he have a history of shooting black people?
No.

The fact remains that a tremendously crappy situation now exists that simply wouldn't eist had these young men not entered the premises to commit a crime.
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