March 3, 2019, 10:45 AM | #126 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
Quote:
|
|
March 3, 2019, 12:07 PM | #127 |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Foghorn, the Clinton agreement was renounced by S&W way prior to 2006. This is the original agreement: https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives....0000317_2.html
Very clearly, the new owners of S&W did not implement that. You point to the existence of the internal lock as evidence they didn’t renounce the agreement; but as a finance person, surely you appreciate why a manufacturer who has already sunk money into developing an unnecessary internal lock would keep producing it after retooling their line. Next, you point to sales figures way after S&W renounced the agreement as evidence that a boycott is not working; but nobody was boycotting S&W at that time since it had gone to new ownership who refused to abide by the agreement. Boycotts do work. But whether they work or not, I’m not going to knowingly/willingly fund someone who will use that money to try and take my rights. |
March 3, 2019, 10:30 PM | #128 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,340
|
Quote:
Agree with all else you wrote, but especially your closing thoughts. Standing on principle is not about whether you are guaranteed to win. It is a stand driven by conscience. |
|
March 4, 2019, 01:38 AM | #129 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 3,878
|
^ I don't really care if Benchmade stays in business or goes under, the bottom line is I'm not handing them a penny for anything they make because their objectives and beliefs when it comes to the 2nd amendment aren't the same as mine.
They can say they're all for guns, but as a company what is it that they've DONE to advance 2A? Talk is cheap, actions and donations are not and from all I've seen, Benchmade is as anti-gun as the politicians they support.
__________________
"We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."
|
March 4, 2019, 09:37 AM | #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 15, 2011
Location: Chesterton Ind.
Posts: 822
|
No problem destroying guns that were got off the street AND that are unsafe or have had serial numbers ground off etc
But guns that were turned over because someone did not know what do do with them or family did not want them. These guns should have been checked over by a gun Smith and resold at a reputable gun shop. All funds received should have went to police and fire dept. for up keep of equipment etc. I will not be buying a BM knife or shop at Dicks..target or any other place that will effect my right to bare arms of any type I choose |
March 6, 2019, 08:43 AM | #131 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 2, 2011
Posts: 960
|
Quote:
Again, even a cursory examination of their financials clearly demonstrates that the "boycott" failed miserably. In three years, just in C&CE, they increased $39 million. Other gun manufacturers also increased in gross sales as well. Prior to that political climate, sales were down. As were other gun manufacturers. This was an industry phenomenon and had nothing to do with any boycott. As usual, correlation does not imply causation. Yes, S&W suffered a decline in sales of revolvers, but because of the lock, substandard manufacturing practices and poor customer service. That had little or nothing to do with protest. Purists/collectors such as myself simply opted to buy used. To this day I will only buy pinned and recessed Smith revolvers. Second, any renunciation of the klinton pact was a mere public relations stunt. The lock remains and, purists continue to eschew the revolvers. If they had truly renounced the conspiracy, they would have spent the money to retool and get rid of the lock (which is not only hideously ugly, but it's also a hazard to operation). They would have seen an upsurge in sales as a result. They only gave us lip service, counting on the gullibility of a naive few to buy what they're selling. |
|
March 6, 2019, 12:50 PM | #132 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
Quote:
|
|
March 6, 2019, 07:58 PM | #133 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,340
|
RIP Benchmade Knives
I guess the British holding company unloaded S&W at a huge loss because S&W was making so much money off the Clinton deal. I was around back then and S&W was hurting. And the Clinton deal was far more than putting an optional lock mechanism in the revolvers. Safety Lock got a slow start when they bought S&W because they retained the lock, but they gained momentum by flatly cancelling all arrangements with state of MA and Clinton admin.
|
March 7, 2019, 07:50 AM | #134 | ||
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; March 7, 2019 at 07:56 AM. |
||
March 7, 2019, 08:14 AM | #135 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
|
Except not every revolver has the lock. When I bought my 642-1 a few years ago, I had the choice of lock or no lock (I went with no lock), so in that sense, it would make MORE sense to stop the lock than have two production runs of the same gun - one with and one without.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa |
March 7, 2019, 02:21 PM | #136 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,714
|
Quote:
As for Dick's, yeah, we hurt their sales, but we didn't make a difference. Dick's did NOT change their stance one iota. They knew they would lose sales and adjusted accordingly. I know plenty of folks celebrated because Dick's didn't make as much money, but it isn't like Dick's went into the red. They speedily adapted and are doing well. Let's see how they are doing.... https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...-goods/revenue Actually, not too bad. Their growth is down as they have made some cuts, but their revenue is solid. Looking at profit, it is down, but they still made a 2.52 billion in profit in 2018. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...s/gross-profit How is their stock price for the last year when we put the squeeze on them? Steadily increasing... https://www.google.com/search?client...-tAWNkZT4Ag2:0 Sportsman's Warehouse isn't doing as good and we didn't boycott them... In looking at Dick's dividend history, it continues to increase since 2013. https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/dks/dividend-history I wonder how the NRA is doing? We aren't even boycotting them and they are taking a beating! https://www.marketwatch.com/story/we...her-2018-12-15 https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...straight-year/ Dick's is doing much better than the NRA for the last 2 years. So when we talk about how we really put the screws to Dick's, they seem to be taking it really well. In fact, they seem to be quite strong AND have done so while maintaining their anti-gun position.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
March 7, 2019, 02:50 PM | #137 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
|
Most pro-gun people are non-proactive (I think I made up a word) I honestly don’t think many pro-gun people actually vote. Being anti-gun seems to be benificial these days, at least from my world view. Eventually the pro-gun part of life will collapse under the weight of progressive ideas. Progressive ideology doesn’t recognize the unfettered right to gun ownership so as time progresses more companies will support antigun politicians. Knives are safe for now, and a knife maker could benefit from antigun policies... at least for the foreseeable future. Knives are on the political radar and greasing a few palms with money can help keep knives from the spotlight.
|
March 7, 2019, 03:31 PM | #138 |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
Reference Double Naught Spy's comments on Dick's, it should be noted that Dick's is not a "gun" store. Never was, and certainly isn't now. Firearms, at least at the two Dick's stores that I've been into in my area of operations, are (or were -- I haven't been into one for a couple or three years) very much a small part of their operation. The gun department is stuck off in a back corner on the second floor, and I almost never saw anyone actually staffing the counter. They seemed to be much more about selling cheap, molded kayaks, exercise and workout clothing and gear, running shoes, and some sports equipment.
My take is that they decided to take the hit on gun sales income because they knew there wasn't much income there to lose anyway, and they hoped to attract more SJW type customers by "taking a principled stand" (:barf: ). Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 7, 2019 at 07:42 PM. |
March 7, 2019, 03:51 PM | #139 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
|
You said it better
|
March 8, 2019, 09:19 AM | #140 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
Quote:
So, IMHO..it's not as simple as 'pro-gun' or 'anti-gun'. Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|||
March 8, 2019, 10:07 AM | #141 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 30, 2006
Posts: 308
|
Sometimes it's not about hurting the offender, it's about pride in what you believe. I don't care about Dicks, Levi's, Gander Outdoor's, or Benchmades sales.
I just want to say I stick to my principles and prove it with my wallet. This knife arrived this week and was going to be a Benchmade Bugout. Last edited by gnystrom; March 8, 2019 at 02:43 PM. |
March 8, 2019, 06:25 PM | #142 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,714
|
Quote:
Dick's is thriving without us.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
March 8, 2019, 07:09 PM | #143 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
|
Dick's is thriving because they went the larger demographic - the soccer mom and kids versus the gun owner......and like it or not, in that comparison we lose EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. They are buying expensive team gear for the kids, gym clothes for themselves, exercise equipment, hubby is buying golf gear, etc. ALL of those items have margins from 40 to 100% and more...........let's get real here; WE are the abused, adopted red-headed step child to any sporting goods store/chain.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa |
March 8, 2019, 08:40 PM | #144 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
I've been done with Benchmade for quite a few years. I have a few of their knives, but I don't think they are worth the money they are charging, especially their "Gold Class" stuff. Their blades are thinner than most other brands at .12". Spyderco blades are .14" thick and they come in just about every blade steel under the sun. They don't have as many different designs as Benchmade, but they make good solid knives. I have really taken a liking to Zero Tolerance Knives. They are a bit more than the regular Benchmades, but they use premium steels and are overbuilt. The blade on my 562 CF is made of M390 and has a blade thickness of .16". I also have a few Microtechs including a Socom and LUDT. Great knives that are far better made than Benchmades.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
March 9, 2019, 08:05 AM | #145 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 358
|
I have read most of these posts. A few suggested that Benchmade should stand in with the pro gun crowd.
I can't help but wonder what would happen to knife sales if all guns were suddenly banned and could that be reasoning for their philosophy.
__________________
L2R |
March 9, 2019, 08:54 AM | #146 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,341
|
Quote:
OMG........the best laugh I've had in a long, long time. |
|
March 9, 2019, 10:15 AM | #147 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
|
Quote:
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa |
|
March 9, 2019, 10:31 AM | #148 |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
The fact is that a LOT (if not all) of Benchmade's knives fall within a general category of "weapons." That makes them "arms" within the context of the Second Amendment so, if Benchmade had any sense, they would see that their products are protected by the Second Amendment just as much (or as little!) as firearms. So the reality is that they should stand with the pro-gun crowd, because it's a virtual certainty that if the anti-gunners ever succeed in eliminating private ownership of guns, knives will be next on their agenda.
Of course, there's a lot of money to be made by an anti-gun knife company before that day arrives. |
March 9, 2019, 02:20 PM | #149 | |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Quote:
Luckily, it is ‘t much of a sacrifice. When I was growing up and went to the grocery store, you had four choices for apples: Red, Yellow, Green, or no apples. Now I have to Google the six hundred varieties of apples in my non-fancy supermarket to even have a clue what I am buying. Now I can buy organic varieties of an apple I’ve never heard of before that is grown in an orchard that employs only disabled veterans and splits their profits between an alapaca rescue and the NRA. We have plenty of choices. And to be clear, I also believe in forgiveness for the sincerely repentant. Benchmade is going to the NRA show according to Tom Gresham, so they have an opportunity to come clean. I’m skeptical they will since they’ve managed to sidestep every opportunity thus far like a teenage meth addict playing Frogger. |
|
March 9, 2019, 10:51 PM | #150 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,340
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|