Conceal carry laws

[AL45]

I live in New Mexico and the law says that it is LEGAL to conceal carry WITHOUT a permit if you are the owner, tenant, leasee, or liscensee of the property you are on. A friend said that this means that if you are an employee of a business that allows firearm carry, you can legally carry a concealed firearm, without a permit, on the business property. Is that how you guys interpret this law?

[Fisher]

AL45,
With all due respect to your friend and the people here at The Firing Line forum. I would call the police department and ask them this question. They should be able to give you the answer that best fits this scenario in your location.

Jim

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by AL45

I live in New Mexico and the law says that it is LEGAL to conceal carry WITHOUT a permit if you are the owner, tenant, leasee, or liscensee of the property you are on. A friend said that this means that if you are an employee of a business that allows firearm carry, you can legally carry a concealed firearm, without a permit, on the business property. Is that how you guys interpret this law?

Absolutely not. The law explicitly enumerates four specific classes of people who can carry on a business premises without a permit. They are:

• The owner
• The tenant
• The leasee [how is this different from "tenant"?]
• The licensee

Do you see "employee" on that list?

[rickyrick]

I would not ask a police officer to interpret a law.

They are not lawyers

[FITASC]

The leasee [how is this different from "tenant"?]

Could be a sub-lease

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by rickyrick

I would not ask a police officer to interpret a law.

They are not lawyers

I agree. The best source for legal advice or the interpretation of law is a lawyer. When trying to understand what a law means a lawyer looks at (1) exactly what the law says; (2) if there are any other statutes dealing with the subject; and (3) if/how courts have applied the law.

[Librarian]

Just because I was curious ...

http://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexi...ection-30-7-2/

"2014 New Mexico Statutes
Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses
Section 7 Weapons and Explosives"

Universal Citation: NM Stat § 30-7-2 (2014)

30-7-2. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon.
A. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon consists of carrying a concealed loaded firearm or any other type of deadly weapon anywhere, except in the following cases:

(1) in the person's residence or on real property belonging to him as owner, lessee, tenant or licensee;

(2) in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property;

(3) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978];

(4) by a peace officer in accordance with the policies of his law enforcement agency who is employed on a temporary basis by that agency and who has successfully completed a course of firearms instruction prescribed by the New Mexico law enforcement academy or provided by a certified firearms instructor who is employed on a permanent basis by a law enforcement agency; or

(5) by a person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued to him by the department of public safety pursuant to the provisions of the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978].

B. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the carrying of any unloaded firearm.

C. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

History: 1953 Comp., 40A-7-2, enacted by Laws 1963, ch. 303, 7-2; 1975, ch. 134, 1; 1985, ch. 174, 1; 2001, ch. 219, 13.

[kilimanjaro]

Talk to your prosecutor, that's the lawyer you want, it's his decision to file charges or not. Written opinions are best.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by kilimanjaro

Talk to your prosecutor, that's the lawyer you want, it's his decision to file charges or not. Written opinions are best.

No, the prosecutor is not the lawyer you want. He is not your lawyer. And he's not going to give you a written opinion.

You need your own lawyer who you have engaged and who owes you a professional duty of care.

[jmhyer]

The way I read it, your friend is wrong.

Out of curiosity, why not just get your permit? Then, it would appear to me, you have no issues.

[AL45]

jmhyer, my boss called me today and said she is paying for employees to get their conceal carry. So I guess problem solved. In New Mexico you can carry an unloaded firearm concealed, but New Mexico doesn't define what unloaded is. I assume, ammo in one pocket and gun in another. You can open carry at your little hearts desire.

[NJgunowner]

I was going to say, not for nothing why not just get a concealed carry license and call it a day?

[Nathan]

The owner
The tenant
The leasee [how is this different from "tenant"?]

Think girlfriend not on the lease contract.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Think girlfriend not on the lease contract.

I think in such a situation the girlfriend would be an "occupant," not a "tenant."

Definitions of "tenant":

Tenant

An individual who occupies or possesses land or premises by way of a grant of an estate of some type, such as in fee, for life, for years, or at will. A person who has the right to temporary use and possession of particular real property, which has been conveyed to that person by a landlord.

West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

tenant

n. a person who occupies real property owned by another based upon an agreement between the person and the landlord/owner, almost always for rental payments.

Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

TENANT

TheLaw.com Law Dictionary & Black's Law Dictionary 2nd Ed.

(A) A person or entity that rents real property from the property owner (landlord) and which may or may not include a structure such as a home. A tenant may also be called “lessee.”

[Dragline45]

I would not ask a police officer to interpret a law.

They are not lawyers

Agreed, police officers at least in my state are some of the most misinformed people on our gun laws.

[rwilson452]

Ask the police? never. In PA we went to great lengths to get them educated We pushed and got added things to their annual training. There are still some officers and departments that had to be sued to, "Get their mind right". PA is a "shall issue state". Unfortunately, Some sheriffs. Don't like it and make up their own rules. In the case of Philly. Any conviction of anything is used it DQ you for a license under the the character clause. Have a gun stolen form your house or car? No license, your not a responsible person. I could go on but I will stop here.

[Aguila Blanca]

A very long time ago, before I had my carry license, I was at a party with my then-girlfriend and the subject of shooting came up. Her nephew was a police officer, and the party was at said officer's father's house. He was "family," so I'm sure he wasn't trying to jack me up. I asked him if it was legal for me to transport a pistol from home to a shooting range. He said "Sure."

In fact, in my state that's a felony offense if you don't have a carry license.

So much for "Ask a cop."

[Fisher]

In fact, in my state that's a felony offense if you don't have a carry license.

So much for "Ask a cop."

So if what you say is true, then you can not shoot pistols at any shooting range unless you have a permit.

Jim

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Fisher

So much for "Ask a cop."
So if what you say is true, then you can not shoot pistols at any shooting range unless you have a permit.

No, it was legal for me to shoot if someone else transported the handgun to the range, or if I rented one from the range. It was (and is) transport without a carry license that was/is illegal. In my state, the exceptions are that you can transport to home when you buy it, you can transport to and from a gunsmith for repairs, and you can transport to an FFL for sale.

[Fisher]

you can transport to and from a gunsmith for repairs, and you can transport to an FFL for sale.

This one is hard to prove to any law enforcement officer.

It's not that I don't believe your interpretation of your gun laws Aquila. I'm just not sure why any state would allow gun ownership and then be so restrictive on how they can transport them. Not all gun owners want to have a concealed carry. Exactly what state are we talking about and can you point us to the documentation that you are getting this from.

Jim

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Fisher

This one is hard to prove to any law enforcement officer.

That's the problem. The fact that it's hard to prove to an officer on the street means you really don't want to be carrying guns around without a license.

Originally Posted by Fisher

It's not that I don't believe your interpretation of your gun laws Aquila. I'm just not sure why any state would allow gun ownership and then be so restrictive on how they can transport them. Not all gun owners want to have a concealed carry. Exactly what state are we talking about and can you point us to the documentation that you are getting this from.

I get it -- it's not that you don't believe me, it's just that you don't believe me.

Sorry. If I wanted the whole world to know where I live, I would have included that info in my profile. Here's the language, directly copied from the State's web site. If you choose not to believe I'm quoting it directly, that's not my problem.

Section [____] Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions.
(a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section [____]. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or any Department of Motor Vehicles Inspector appointed under section [____]8 and certified pursuant to section [____], or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined by section [____], or of this state, as defined by section [____], when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser’s residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person’s household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person’s place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person’s place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors’ group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section [____]. For the purposes of this subsection, “formal pistol or revolver training” means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and “transporting a pistol or revolver” means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section [____] shall carry such permit upon one’s person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

[Fisher]

I get it -- it's not that you don't believe me, it's just that you don't believe me.

I question many things in life. Just because someone says it's true, that doesn't mean that it is. I don't know you and you certainly don't know me either. So you will have to excuse me if I question what I read on the internet. I think we all have learn that everything we read on the internet isn't true, at least I have.

Sorry. If I wanted the whole world to know where I live, I would have included that info in my profile. Here's the language, directly copied from the State's web site. If you choose not to believe I'm quoting it directly, that's not my problem.

That is certainly your choice. However it's also my choice not to believe what someone copies and pastes on a website. You obviously don't trust people, so why would you expect me to.

Provide the link and we can all review it and discuss it. Choose not to, and your comment about trusting a police officer means nothing.

Jim

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Fisher

Provide the link and we can all review it and discuss it. Choose not to, and your comment about trusting a police officer means nothing.

If I provide the link I obviously identify my state of residence.

Suppose I send the link to moderator Frank Ettin. If he confirms I have cited it correctly, is that enough to satisfy you?

You do understand, I hope, that you are calling me a liar.

[Fisher]

You do understand, I hope, that you are calling me a liar.

Don't flatter yourself Aguila. Asking someone to supply a link to something they are quoting is not calling them a liar. It is only asking them to validate what they are saying. Especially since you have said a police officer didn't know about the laws he is suppose to be enforcing.

Drawing someone else into the discussion doesn't change the fact that you aren't willing to validate you accusation by providing the link.

Jim

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Fisher

Don't flatter yourself Aguila. Asking someone to supply a link to something they are quoting is not calling them a liar. It is only asking them to validate what they are saying. Especially since you have said a police officer didn't know about the laws he is suppose to be enforcing.

Drawing someone else into the discussion doesn't change the fact that you aren't willing to validate you accusation by providing the link.

Jim

Okay Jim, how about this:

• I've known Aguila Blanca in contexts other than this forum for something on the order of ten years. I know him by his real name. I know where he lives.
  
  
• I have independently researched the laws of the State in which I know he lives.
  
  
• Aguila Blanca has accurately quoted in post 21 the relevant statute of the laws of the State in which he lives.
  
  
• While it might seem unreasonable to you, it appears that the laws of the State in which Aguila Blanca lives are indeed as restrictive on this point as he has claimed.

This ends discussion of the laws of Aguila Blanca's State of residence. In any case, that issue has no real relevance to the topic of this thread.