Pepperboxes?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Two excellent videos about the Allen and Thurber Pepperboxes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnirpFYdqrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5YB6dwl9rU

[Bob Wright]

Many years ago my Dad came into a pistol via some obscure means that was a four barreled pistol. The gun looked like a small pocket auto pistol. The firing pint rotated, much like the cylinder of a revolver to fire each barrel. While this one was Italian made, Mossberg once made such a pistol.

Bob Wright

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I wasn't questiong the invention of pepperboxes in general. What I meant was why would Pietta come out with a pepperbox cylinder (which they advertise as "historical") on a Colt 1851 frame? It's another in a long line of "historical replicas" of firearms that never existed in history.

Yes I see what you mean.....I don't think that one ever existed in history.
I'm sitting here looking at a book on pepper boxes and see none that look like that 1851 Cabela's extended cylinder number , Pietta just made that one up....calling it "historical " is a big stretch of the imagination.
Gary

[Ricklin]

Pitta and historically accurate should not be used in the same sentence.

I do like my big shiny .44 NMA tho. I bought the stainless one for ease of maintenance/cleaning.

I don't shoot it enough.

[Bill DeShivs]

Bob Wright-
That would have been the Eig copy of the Mossberg Brownie.

[Bob Wright]

Bob Wright-
That would have been the Eig copy of the Mossberg Brownie.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler

Likely so. I found no trace of any marking or serial number. Best way to describe is an auto-pistol look-alike with a top break. It was chrome with ivory like plastic grips. And oversize .22 chambers, as .22 L.R. cases split when fired.

Bob Wright

[Drae]

Four ba- I expected firearms forum people to know what is a pepperbox and what is a derringer.

[Bob Wright]

Drae:

Four ba- I expected firearms forum people to know what is a pepperbox and what is a derringer.

There is a very fine line in the descriptions of firearms, even the most "expert" of experts often disagree. Good case case in point is the US Army's classing the M-1 carbine as a carbine, when in fact it has all the characteristics of a light rifle. And the Bren gun, machine gun or automatic rifle?

You are going to find that in the field of firearms, and opinions, there are no absolutes. But all are respected.

Bob Wright

[James K]

One thing that distinguishes a "pepperbox" from a revolver is the rotating and locking mechanism. One major advance in the Colt was the bolt and hand mechanism which provided a positive positioning of the cylinder and kept the alignment during the firing cycle. Most pepperboxes that I have seen have a much less positive lockup and the hammer fall is not always at the right place.

(Note that in a pepperbox, unlike a revolver, there is no problem with barrel-cylinder alignment, since the barrel cluster is simply an elongated cylinder, but the positioning of the nipples still is important for firing.)

Jim

[Model12Win]

Not sure why all the hate for the Pietta pepperbox.

They aren't claiming it's a repro of anything. I know people that own them and love them.

[noelf2]

Not sure why all the hate for the Pietta pepperbox.

They aren't claiming it's a repro of anything. I know people that own them and love them.

Well, Cabela's is a bit disingenuous when they say "Own a piece of history..." in the description. But, they're really only referring to pepperboxes in general. They are historic.

I have one, and I like it. I wouldn't have bought it if I couldn't fit a regular 1851 cylinder and barrel to it as well. I actually bought a used pietta 1851 snubby for the thunderer grip to put on a pepperbox, before I bought it. Now I have an 1851 snubby with a regular grip (more historical) and a thunderer grip pepperbox (total bastard). I'm going to go total steampunk and mount a laser sight on the pepperbox. Perhaps on the grip. Life is good!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Four ba- I expected firearms forum people to know what is a pepperbox and what is a derringer.

Try googling Sharps Pepperbox sometime. That pistol was commonly known as a pepperbox as well as a derringer.

I thought it would be interesting to post some photos of it.

Apparently you disagree.

[OldMarksman]

The Sharps is not a true pepperbox.
Pepperbox barrels rotate.

From the NRA Museum:

"The story of the Sharps four-barrel pistol begins, officially, on December 18, 1849. On that date, the United States Patent Office issued patent number 6960 for a revolver to Christian Sharps, then residing in Washington, D.C. This "revolver" was, actually, not a revolver at all, but a pepperbox in which the barrels didn't revolve! It was fired by a striker which did revolve, though, on a center post to hit, in sequence, the percussion caps which were placed on nipples on the ends of the barrels. The side hammer served both as a cocking lever and as the force behind the striker.

"The pistol was not produced on a commercial basis until 1859, after Sharps had become sole owner of the Fairmont Rifle Works in West Philadelphia. By this time, the metallic cartridge had been introduced and Sharps was able to develop his design into a practical repeating pistol. Patent number 22753 was issued to Sharps on January 25, 1859, again for a "revolver". The first model was .22 caliber. Made with a brass frame, it had a spur or stud trigger, and was a single-action, four-shot repeater. Approximately 85,000 of these little pepperboxes were made in the ten years between 1859 and 1868."

[Model12Win]

Sharpes is making them again (4 bbl).

[Bill DeShivs]

Thank you, Old Marksman, for making my point.

Model 12- the only company that I know of "making" a 4 barreled pistol is Iver Johnson-and no one has seen a production model yet.

[Driftwood Johnson]

You nitpickers have made me sorry I posted the photos of my little Sharps pistol.

Notice I did not say either pepperbox or derringer.

I hope somebody at least looked at the two videos I posted because they were full of all kinds of interesting information about pepperboxes.

Replicas of my little Sharps pistol were imported by Navy Arms at one point, however they were chambered for 22 Long Rifle, not 22 Short like mine is.

[Bill DeShivs]

I'm pretty sure the Uberti Navy Arms Sharps replicas were chambered for .22 short.

[OldMarksman]

Thank you, Old Marksman, for making my point.

Either you missed mine, or I do not understand yours.

The Sharps has been referred to as a pepperbox by authorities for many years.

[Bill DeShivs]

"pepperbox in which the barrels didn't revolve."
Think about it.
Technically, pepperbox barrels revolve- just like turning a pepper mill. That's why they are called pepperboxes.

[OldMarksman]

Technically, pepperbox barrels revolve- just like turning a pepper mill. That's why they are called pepperboxes

Most do, but some do not.

Flayderman's guide is but one of many authoritative sources that have been describing the Sharps and Sharp & Hankins pistols as a "pepperboxes" for many years. The Remington Eliot pistol was similarly described, and its barrels did not revolve.

Norm Flayderman acknowledges that there is controversy about the subject, and he characterizes those who insist the pepperbox barrels must rotate as "hard liners".

The multi-barrelled pistols with revolving barrels predators the pepper milll by centuries. No one seems to know just how the pistol became to be so called, but in the early 1960s, Mark Twain wrote this:

"He wore in his belt an old original "Allen" revolver, such as irreverent people called a 'pepper-box'. "

The pepper mill was invented by Peugeot in 1874.

Before that, pepper was ground in the kitchen in a mortar and pestle, and put on the table in a pepper box that required a spoon. Then, still some centuries before Peugeot's invention, pepper dispensers with multiple holes replaced the open boxes.

Regardless, the very common, long use, by authoritative sources, of the term "pepperbox" to describe the Sharps should establish it as a proper term.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Sounds to me like the pointless argument where some insist a revolver is not a pistol.

[OldMarksman]

Sounds to me like the pointless argument where some insist a revolver is not a pistol.

Exactly.

[HighValleyRanch]

but in the early 1960s, Mark Twain wrote this:

Mark Twain was a Hippie?LOL
I think he was a little before those times!