ATF requires I 'maintain a domicile'?

[P5 Guy]

http://www.technomadia.com/2012/07/c...ng-and-voting/

Some folks just don’t trust that having a personal mailbox somewhere is enough to establish their residency. And some Patriot Act and tax aggressive state (your current state may be quite resistant to letting you go without you fully ‘settling’ down somewhere else) consequences reinforce this. One example is financial institutions are supposed to now have a physical residential address on file for all of their customers, and more and more of their computer systems are rejecting personal mailboxes (as they’re technically at a business location). Having an address handy to use if you ever get caught in this loop can come in quite handy to avoid getting your accounts locked out. Just buying an empty piece of land with a physical mailing address should suffice.

If a person was to follow the 'Full Time RV Life Style' how would one purchase a firearm?

[Blackbook]

Originally Posted by P5 Guy

http://www.technomadia.com/2012/07/c...ng-and-voting/



If a person was to follow the 'Full Time RV Life Style' how would one purchase a firearm?

I've read an ATF letter stating the adress on form 4473 had to be sufficient to assist a trace request.

But what happens if you move? The form no longer has your actual adress, a trace request can't be completed.

[Banger357]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...state-purchase

"If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State.” Military are not noted as exceptions to that statement that I can see- and most of them have some kind of “home” they will visit when they have leave, be it their own home they own or rent or that of a parent or family member where they live when they are in the state.

There are many documents that state that active military are residents of the state where they’re stationed, but none that say their military status renders their home state residency invalid.

Military personnel who are from (for example) WA and are stationed in GA can buy a gun in WA using their valid WA driver’s license when they are home, assuming they do “maintain a home” there. That same person can also buy a gun in GA when they are back, using their orders and military ID.
With reciprocity between many states, it wouldn’t be an issue a lot of the time anyway for long gun purchases. Basically, if you can legally buy the gun in either your home state or the state you are in, the sale is legal. That said, many establishments will not make the sale anyway, just to be cautious. There are some exceptions (for some example, I think there are states where you can only purchase in your own state or one bordering it). Hand guns are different though- for the most part you can only buy one in the state you are a legal resident of.

[dogtown tom]

Banger357 Active duty military, for the purposes of firearms purchases, are dual residents of their home state (as long as they maintain an active driver license there) and the state where they're stationed. They can complete the 4473 using their driver license as ID and fill the form out exactly as a civilian would, or they can use their military ID and a copy of their orders to purchase as a legal resident of that state. Both are totally acceptable and legitimate ways to fill out the form.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
You need to read the instructions on the Form 4473 for Que.2 and Que. 13.
What state a member of the Armed Services considers as his "home state" is immaterial. "Home state" has absolutely nothing to do with state of residence or the buyers actual residence address.

P5 Guy If a person was to follow the 'Full Time RV Life Style' how would one purchase a firearm?

If the buyer cannot document his current residence address, he cannot buy a firearm from a licensed dealer.

Blackbook .....But what happens if you move? The form no longer has your actual adress, a trace request can't be completed.

Nothing happens if you move. No federal law/ATF regulation requires a buyer to continually update your address with ATF for the rest of your life.

The information given on the 4473 is certified under penalty of law that it was true, correct and complete on the day it was signed by the buyer/transferee. If you moved the next day......nothing happens.

Banger357 "If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State.” Military are not noted as exceptions to that statement that I can see- and most of them have some kind of “home” they will visit when they have leave, be it their own home they own or rent or that of a parent or family member where they live when they are in the state.

Simply visiting mom & dad does not make that your current residence address or state of residence.

There are many documents that state that active military are residents of the state where they’re stationed, but none that say their military status renders their home state residency invalid.

You need to understand Federal firearms laws in regard to state of residence and current residence address. What may be considered "home state residency" for the purposes of voting or obtaining a drivers license are immaterial.

Military personnel who are from (for example) WA and are stationed in GA can buy a gun in WA using their valid WA driver’s license when they are home, assuming they do “maintain a home” there.

To simply "maintain a home" isn't enough..........that isn't how the law is written. The buyer must reside in that state with the intention of making his home there.

That same person can also buy a gun in GA when they are back, using their orders and military ID.

Correct.

With reciprocity between many states, it wouldn’t be an issue a lot of the time anyway for long gun purchases.

"Reciprocity"? What the heck does reciprocity have to do with buying a firearm?...........absolutely nothing. Reciprocity is about honoring another states concealed firearms permit, but has absolutely nothing to do with buying a firearm outside of your own state.
You are giving out a lot of very bad information.

You should stop posting until you have read a bit more on ATF regs and Federal law.

[Emerson Biggies]

are your folks still alive? I would have used their address as my last abode.

They probably know where you are from time to time.

[Frank Ettin]

are your folks still alive? I would have used their address as my last abode...

Obviously you haven't been paying attention.

Your last abode is irrelevant. What matters is your current State of residence as the term is defined in ATF regulations. See post 5.

[Librarian]

There are many documents that state that active military are residents of the state where they’re stationed, but none that say their military status renders their home state residency invalid.

ATF disagrees. (ETA: for gun buying purposes - all of the other things, the military civil protections of the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, at Title 50 of United States Code, do not address buying guns. )

ATF says

Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence. For example, a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is Fort Benning, Georgia, may actually reside in a home in Alabama. For GCA purposes, that individual is a resident of Georgia when he or she is in Georgia and a resident of Alabama when he or she is in Alabama. If such an individual wishes to purchase a firearm in Alabama, he or she must of course comply with the identification document requirement in the same way as any other Alabama resident.

Held further,
a purchaser who is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is located within the State where the licensed premises are located.

The 'home of record' is not relevant to the BATF ruling, unless that state coincides with the state where the service member is posted, or the state where that member is actually residing while stationed in an adjacent state (as the GA/AL example given).

BATF could have added 'and also is a resident of his/her claimed home of record'. They did not.

I think they should have done so. But the BATF did not consult me.

[raimius]

Librarian,
Does the description contained in this letter still reflect the BATFE's interpretation of military residency? https://www.atf.gov/file/56416/download

[Blackbook]

Originally Posted by Emerson Biggies

are your folks still alive? I would have used their address as my last abode.

They probably know where you are from time to time.

Neither of my parents live in my state, and my father is a 'traveler' also.

[Librarian]

Yes, that 2004 letter repeats what is in the other references.

SALES TO MILITARY PERSONNEL –
RESIDENCY VERIFICATION
ATF has been asked to clarify how and when a
license dealer may sell a firearm to someone who is
on active duty with the Armed Forces. In
particular, how does the licensee verify that the
military person is a resident of their State and
therefore entitled to purchase a firearm? An active
duty member of the Armed Forces may have
more than one State of residence. The Gun
Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of
the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of
the State in which his or her permanent duty station
is located. However, the GCA’s general definition
of State of residence may also apply to some
active duty members. The general definition of
State of residence is the State in which an individual
resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she
is present in a State with an intention of making a
home in the State. If a member of the Armed
Forces maintains a home in one State and the
member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby
State to which he or she commutes each day, then
the member is considered a resident of both the
State in which his or her duty station is located and
the State in which his or her home is maintained,
and he or she may purchase a firearm in either
State.

As directed by the instructions contained in the
Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473,
any member of the Armed Forces on active duty
acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her
permanent duty station is located who does not
reside at his or her permanent duty station, must
list both his or her permanent duty station address
and his or her residence address in response to
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver’s license from
another State, you should list the transferee’s
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.

Here are some examples:
Andrews Air Force Base is located in Maryland. A
member of the Armed Forces stationed at
Andrews Air Force Base who resides in Virginia,
but commutes to work at Andrews Air Force Base
would be considered to be a resident of both
Virginia and Maryland. However, a member
stationed at Andrews who resides in Maryland
would be considered only to be a resident of
Maryland.

The Ft. Campbell Army Base is physically located
in two States; part of the base is located in
Kentucky and part of the base is located in
Tennessee. Given this unusual fact, under the
GCA, a member of the Armed Forces who is
stationed at Ft. Campbell Army Base would be
considered a resident of both Kentucky and
Tennessee regardless of the State in which the
member maintained his or her residence.

[Sequins]

This seems unconstitutional and you might be in a good position to act as a test case, OP. This is certainly unequal treatment under the law if only wealthy landowners are permitted to own firearms.

[dogtown tom]

Sequins This seems unconstitutional and you might be in a good position to act as a test case, OP. This is certainly unequal treatment under the law if only wealthy landowners are permitted to own firearms.

Nonsense.
There is no requirement to own land or be wealthy.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Sequins

This seems unconstitutional and you might be in a good position to act as a test case, OP. This is certainly unequal treatment under the law if only wealthy landowners are permitted to own firearms.

What seems unconstitutional?

Who is being subjected to unequal treatment under the law? How?

[Blackbook]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

What seems unconstitutional?

Who is being subjected to unequal treatment under the law? How?

It's not a matter of unequal treatment. No one is claiming discrimination.

[Tom Servo]

I understand the OP's dissatisfaction with the situation. On the face, it certainly presents a problem for people with no fixed abode.

However, people are trying to find exceptions or ways around the problem. There doesn't appear to be one.

[Blackbook]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I understand the OP's dissatisfaction with the situation. On the face, it certainly presents a problem for people with no fixed abode.

However, people are trying to find exceptions or ways around the problem. There doesn't appear to be one.

I could probably use my sister's address since she has a house in my state of residence, but there again I don't live there.

[Jim March]

I'm now nomadic too. For all intents and purposes I'm living in an 18-wheeler.

...and I plan on upgrading to something that is basically a small RV with a big engine.

I'm out 28 days at a time, with my wife. We're thinking of just ditching the apartment.

Yes...a lot of changes in my life. Among other things I'm now Jim Simpson, I took her last name...

[Blackbook]

See I held on to my (very nice) apartment also, but it didn't make sense to keep paying rent on a place I rarely visited. I gave notice, paid an early termination fee and dropped it, saving all that money.

If you do that, then you need to use either a friend or family member's address, or something like a UPS store, and also buy a **noterized** "afidavit of residency" from any UPS store or lawyer (very cheep) and bring it with you to your DMV to have the new adress put on your license.

If you use something like a UPS store, take my advice and leave your box # off your drivers licence. The store will still get your mail to you, your address will look more ordinary, and many companies like GEICO cannot accommodate irregular adress formats, resulting in wrong printed adresses and/or lost mail. Just leave the box # off.

[natman]

The letter to FFLs mentioned in post 20:

https://www.atf.gov/file/60941/download

describes how to get a variance from the ATF for people who legitimately don't have a conventional address and are using a PO Box (or in the OP's case a UPS box) as a legal address.

So, for the third and final time, I'm going to suggest that the OP contact ATF and start the procedure.

Note to the OP: If you do get a variance, it's not going to do you any good unless the dealer is in the same state as your legal address. You can't currently buy a handgun in another state in any case.

[Frank Ettin]

Going around in circles