Need help finding info on two revolvers

[Powersportking]

The first revolver is a s&w 38 special 6 shot chamber markings on the barrel say s&w 38 ctg /Other side says 38 767 3 1/2 tons inside the cylinder there are two numbers stamped 68898 and h 86889 the cylinder itself has a number 943603 on the butt it has 943603 and what appars to be w.b.and a small stamped P the only other markings I see are very small bmp engravings
I am interested in any info and aprox value Thanks!!


The second revolver is a Taurus marked on the barrel 38 special and forjas Taurus s.a. P.Alegre r.g.s.brazil // on one side of gun it is stamped int.dist.Inc.Miami fla 747877 made in brazil the seal reads Taurus brasil in 3 places two are silver seals /when the 6 shot cylinder is open it is stamped R 483 And inside on frame the number 80 any info including value would be greatly appreciated

[James K]

The first gun is a Smith & Wesson Military & Police, Model 1905, Fourth Change, made in .38 S&W caliber (that is the name of the cartridge) for the British about the time of U.S. entry into WWII. 943603 is the serial number, the other number is an assembly number. That gun was made not long before the advent of the famous Victory Model (which came into being when numbers went over 999999 then to V1). It may be in .38 Special caliber now, but it was originally in .38 S&W. The markings you describe are British proof marks, put on when the gun was sold out of British stores after WWII. If in good condtion, those guns have fair value, though not as much as the later Victory Models, even though they are the same gun. In average good condition, they bring around $600 or so, retail.

An upgraded M&P model is still in the S&W line as the Model 10.

The other gun is a Taurus Model 80, a discontinued model (1996). Taurus quality control has been spotty, but if yours is a good one it is a serviceable gun. The full address, translates to Taurus Forges, S.A. (equivalent to Inc.), Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul [state], Brazil. Value can go to around $200, with an average good one running $150 or so. The Florida zip code should be only five digits.

Jim

[carguychris]

The first gun is a Smith & Wesson Military & Police, Model 1905, Fourth Change, made in .38 S&W caliber (that is the name of the cartridge) for the British about the time of U.S. entry into WWII... In average good condition, they bring around $600 or so, retail.

Although Jim is otherwise correct, I would like to make a couple of comments on the value estimate.

First, IMHO the value estimate is 20-30% high for a garden-variety British WWII S&W service revolver with export proof marks. These are probably the most commonplace WWII Victory-type firearms because oodles of them were sold as surplus on the American market in the 1950s and 1960s. $600 is more in line with American .38 Special Victories, which are less common.

Second, the value estimate assumes the revolver is all-original. Many of these guns were modified by 1950s & 1960s importers to make them more appealing to US civilian buyers, most of whom were buying the gun as a cheap personal self-defense piece rather than a military collectible. Common modifications include non-original nickel finish, removing the lanyard loop from the butt and plugging the hole, installing cheap plastic faux-mother-of-pearl or faux-stag grips, .38 Special conversions (see above), and cutting the barrel. Most British guns had 5" barrels, although a few early examples had 4" or 6" tubes; if your gun has a 2"-3" barrel, it has almost certainly been cut. Any of these modifications will typically knock the gun's value down to the $100-$150 range.

[Winchester_73]

...38 Special conversions (see above),

This is possibly the most common mod of these revolvers, it is known as reaming of the cylinder. The 38 S&W aka 38/200 is a shorter, wider cartridge compared to the 38 special. Its also not a great choice for SD, so many gun smiths reamed the chambers to accept 38 special. All American Victory's which were issued or made for the US are 38 special. The best way to tell is simply inserting a live 38 special cartridge. The 38 S&W is also 38 cal at the bullet whereas 38/357 mag is 38 cal at the case and the 38 special/357 mag bullet is 357 cal. This means that 38 S&W ammo should not be fired in guns chambered for 38 special or 357 mag.

[Claddagh]

I had a similar revolver when I was a kid. I'd add that accuracy with anything but HBWC's was dismal, as the .38 S&W bore is a nominal 0.363" which doesn't work well with 0.358" slugs. Also, I got a lot of case bulges and splits near the head, even with standard factory .38 Spl. ammo. The chambers had been were lengthened, but grossly oversized at the base. Personally, the only ways I'd shoot one now is with .38 S&W ammo or not at all. I'd agree that given the alterations from as-issued condition the actual value would more likely be in the $200 or less range.

[Powersportking]

Thanks alot guys you have given me some good homework and insight .I may post a few pics to see how many mods have been done .it appears to be very original though no chopping ect the lanyard loop may b missing although I didn't pay any attention ! Thanks again u guys are awesome !!!!!

[James K]

I agree with much of what carguychris says, but I am not sure the gun is .38 Special or was altered, as the OP does not say he tried to chamber .38 Special in it. The barrel is marked ".38 S&W" and the British proof marks clearly show it is .38 S&W or was when it was proved for sale on the civilian market in England (the marks are not "export" marks; all guns sold out of British government stores had to be proved, whether for export or not).

I see nothing indicating the barrel was shortened. The "3 1/2" is not the barrel length, it is part of the proof mark and is the working pressure of the cartridge in British tons. The .767 is the case length of .38 S&W, not .38 Special. The two numbers on the crane and frame are assembly numbers. They are the same - 68898 is 86889 read upside down.

Value depends mainly on condition, so one estimate is about as good as another with the gun sight unseen.

Jim

[carguychris]

+1 Jim; I didn't assume that barrel had been cut, I was trying to give the OP some info to determine whether this had been done. IMHO the barrel appears original in the picture.

Powersportking, is there still a hole in the butt for the lanyard loop? If so, you can probably pick one up on GB. The base of the loop has circumferential groove, giving it an "H"-shaped cross section; after inserting the base into the hole in the butt, a transverse pin is inserted through a smaller hole in the grip frame, passing through the groove and retaining the loop. The transverse pin is held in by the grips so it doesn't have to fit tightly. FWIW the whole assembly fits very loosely so the loop can spin freely; a prior owner may have removed the loop so it wouldn't rattle while he/she was carrying the gun.

BTW although your pictures are not very high-resolution, your revolver appears to have blued finish. Later Victories usually had a matte grayish-black phosphate finish similar to parkerizing. Your revolver may have been reblued, but OTOH the finish could be original; a large number of British guns in the 800,000-999,999 serial number range had blued finish just like S&W's prewar civilian models. You may want to request a history letter from S&W.

[Powersportking]

appears to be the lanyard I see where someone has removed and sealed the original condition .As for finish I ll have to look into it .IM actually trying to determine trade value .....just dont want to make a mistake now that everyone sees its overal condition lets just say orig finish laong barrel and grips any ideas...

[Powersportking]

It says made in the USA does thatske it worth more or less

[carguychris]

All WWII-era S&W revolvers say MADE IN USA on the frame. The modern "4-line" frame rollmark was first used shortly after the war.

Trade value is probably somewhere around $200, give or take.

[Radagast]

If it has been refinished or bored out to .38 special $250, if original finish $350 or so, but it will be hard to find a buyer as .38 S&W ammo is harder to find and generally more expensive than .38 special.