JHP expansion questions

JHS · December 14, 1999, 10:12 PM

I have been loading 155g jhp's (rem's)in the.40. I have noticed that when shot thru wood or when they hit hard soil they don't expand.
I had shot a round at a stump and it hit the mud and expanded very well, .69.
Question: Whats up with that?

Robert the41MagFan · December 15, 1999, 12:41 AM

I was under the impression that JHP's are suppose to expand in flight. Used them a lot this year and I was not very impressed. Going back to using hard cast bullets. Only going to try them one more time this spring in the 45 acp. If I do not see good results, go lead with them too. Think that there is not much better than a heavy flat nose bullets, the heaviest the cartridge and gun can handle.

Robert

Stephen A. Camp · December 15, 1999, 04:56 AM

Hello,sir. When a JHP hits something "hard", the material through which it is passing not only plugs the hollow point, but tends to "hold" the slug together and in its original form ..... other than to flatten the nose a bit. In "soft targets," pressure builds from the fluid's entering the hollow point and building pressure; there's also nothing to retard the slug's mushrooming out. The bullets do not deform until striking their (soft) target and most of the expansion will occur during the first inch or two of penetration as that's when the bullet's velocity is highest. Obviously, it slows and expansion decreases as it passes through any medium. Best and good shooting.

JHS · December 15, 1999, 07:57 AM

Is clothing a big problem? Fiber filled coats ect.?

Sport45 · December 15, 1999, 06:23 PM

With your .40 you'll leave a nice size hole even if it doesn't expand. I hear lots of folks switch to big bores and even FMJ in the winter.

By the way, many frown on using handloads for self defense. For the peace of mind I'd recommend store bought.
------------------
"An unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

Cesare Beccaria, the father of modern criminology

[This message has been edited by Sport45 (edited December 15, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Sport45 (edited December 16, 1999).]

JHS · December 15, 1999, 06:51 PM

I have reloaded and loaded a few rounds in the past years. It just seems that JHP's use to expand when they hit anything. My loads will go bang when the trigger is pulled. I don't like factory.

[This message has been edited by JHS (edited December 16, 1999).]

zot · December 16, 1999, 01:00 AM

shoot one round thru a gallon milk jug full
of water,maybe 2 jugs , you'll see some good expansion plus some frags too,

Ed · December 16, 1999, 09:11 AM

The milk jugs work ok if you just want to see how your bullet expands under ideal conditions. If your bullet doesn't expand in water you better look for another bullet.<p>I have heard that water soaked newspapers or phone books gives close to the same expansion you would get in animal (or human) tissue. I soak the papers in a tub of water overnight, get them out and let them drain for a few hours, then pile them up vertically against a backstop. They are just a mass of wet paper pulp by then, so they are difficult and messy to handle, specially in cold weather. Phone books are much easier to handle, but harder to get enough of them. I have tested lots of HP loads this way, and I have found the results are pretty close to what I get in critters. <p>BTW, Mas Ayoob's book advises strongly against using handloads for defensive purposes because of legal problems after the shooting. He has been an expert witness at dozens of criminal and civil trials, and he believes that using reloads works against you big time, both with the cops and in court. You can't do better than factory Hydra-Shoks in my opinion.

December 14, 1999, 10:12 PM	#1
JHS Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Goodwell,Ok. Posts: 505	I have been loading 155g jhp's (rem's)in the.40. I have noticed that when shot thru wood or when they hit hard soil they don't expand. I had shot a round at a stump and it hit the mud and expanded very well, .69. Question: Whats up with that?

December 15, 1999, 12:41 AM	#2
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	I was under the impression that JHP's are suppose to expand in flight. Used them a lot this year and I was not very impressed. Going back to using hard cast bullets. Only going to try them one more time this spring in the 45 acp. If I do not see good results, go lead with them too. Think that there is not much better than a heavy flat nose bullets, the heaviest the cartridge and gun can handle. Robert

December 15, 1999, 04:56 AM	#3
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello,sir. When a JHP hits something "hard", the material through which it is passing not only plugs the hollow point, but tends to "hold" the slug together and in its original form ..... other than to flatten the nose a bit. In "soft targets," pressure builds from the fluid's entering the hollow point and building pressure; there's also nothing to retard the slug's mushrooming out. The bullets do not deform until striking their (soft) target and most of the expansion will occur during the first inch or two of penetration as that's when the bullet's velocity is highest. Obviously, it slows and expansion decreases as it passes through any medium. Best and good shooting.

December 15, 1999, 07:57 AM	#4
JHS Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Goodwell,Ok. Posts: 505	Is clothing a big problem? Fiber filled coats ect.?

December 15, 1999, 06:23 PM	#5
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	With your .40 you'll leave a nice size hole even if it doesn't expand. I hear lots of folks switch to big bores and even FMJ in the winter. By the way, many frown on using handloads for self defense. For the peace of mind I'd recommend store bought. ------------------ "An unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Cesare Beccaria, the father of modern criminology [This message has been edited by Sport45 (edited December 15, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Sport45 (edited December 16, 1999).]

December 15, 1999, 06:51 PM	#6
JHS Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Goodwell,Ok. Posts: 505	I have reloaded and loaded a few rounds in the past years. It just seems that JHP's use to expand when they hit anything. My loads will go bang when the trigger is pulled. I don't like factory. [This message has been edited by JHS (edited December 16, 1999).]

December 16, 1999, 01:00 AM	#7
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	shoot one round thru a gallon milk jug full of water,maybe 2 jugs , you'll see some good expansion plus some frags too,

December 16, 1999, 09:11 AM	#8
Ed Member Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Geogia, USA Posts: 85	The milk jugs work ok if you just want to see how your bullet expands under ideal conditions. If your bullet doesn't expand in water you better look for another bullet.<p>I have heard that water soaked newspapers or phone books gives close to the same expansion you would get in animal (or human) tissue. I soak the papers in a tub of water overnight, get them out and let them drain for a few hours, then pile them up vertically against a backstop. They are just a mass of wet paper pulp by then, so they are difficult and messy to handle, specially in cold weather. Phone books are much easier to handle, but harder to get enough of them. I have tested lots of HP loads this way, and I have found the results are pretty close to what I get in critters. <p>BTW, Mas Ayoob's book advises strongly against using handloads for defensive purposes because of legal problems after the shooting. He has been an expert witness at dozens of criminal and civil trials, and he believes that using reloads works against you big time, both with the cops and in court. You can't do better than factory Hydra-Shoks in my opinion.