Tactical Sunglass Training?!

still 2 many choices · April 25, 2006, 07:04 AM

The tactical part was just for fun, but does anybody here use really dark shades as a way to simulate low light shooting for selfdefense? Just thinking about a home invasion situation or, you are out at night walking to your car(million scenarios pop to mind). Of course we all have the,"tactical flashlight", nearby but when the SHTF, you may forget it, not want to use it, or be unable to deploy it... Shades, a good idea or bad

?

MEDDAC19 · April 25, 2006, 09:47 AM

Well I don't do that at all now, but we did use very dark goggles in the Army to simulate night fire. They took us to the range with M16s loaded with tracers, we put the goggles on so we could learn how to direct our fire using the tracers for aiming purposes. I don't think they would be any good for home selfdefense though, the goggles were too dark to see anything but the tracer fire, and we could barely see that.

I can shoot in my backyard so low light practice is easy for me to do. Those of you that use indoor ranges, can you get the management to lower the lighting? I think practice when conditions are less than optimal is a good idea.

s2mc I think shades is a good idea but the wrap around style would be the only ones that would work. Don't you think regular ones would let too much bright light in from the sides? Not a bad idea.

OBIWAN · April 25, 2006, 11:26 AM

I just use darkness...more realisitic that way

stevelyn · April 25, 2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

I just use darkness....more realistic that way.

Yup, and you also have the option and opportunity to practice flashlight techniques....something you can't do with goggles and daylight.

ribbonstone · April 25, 2006, 07:54 PM

We talking the FBI black plastic rimmed glasses...the SS's wire rims...red-neck's silvered lens...or California multi-colored surfer-dude lens?

oldbillthundercheif · April 25, 2006, 11:42 PM

Wear the surfer-dude shades, and turn out the lights as well. Add strobe lights, lasers, fog machine, and techno music for the best training experience ever. Anybody know a range where we could do this? Count me in.

Denny Hansen · April 26, 2006, 05:08 PM

Agree that the best training is in actual low-light conditions.

Erick's spot on regards the glasses DeSantis made. They were dark enough to weld with--and I did on a couple of occasions.

Denny

Tim Burke · April 26, 2006, 06:33 PM

The point of low light training is to learn how to manage low light conditions. Flashlight usage, night sight usage, and using the muzzle flash to refine your sight picture can not be practiced with the low light goggles.
The goggles don't simulate low light conditions so much as they simulate being blind.

still 2 many choices · April 27, 2006, 09:08 AM

Most were very informative. Only problem is many people don't have access to a place that allows shooting at night or in low light conditions, liability and all that stuff

....So of course if closer to realistic scenarios could be used, I would; but with range rules being the limiting factor, would this still be a viable idea to simulate some of what happens at night?

OBIWAN · April 27, 2006, 09:40 AM

How about just squinting

Capt. Charlie · April 27, 2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

No. They make things very dark but do nothing, in my opinion, to prepare you for a low light confrontation.

And I'll second that opinion. My department's in the middle of a budget crunch, and they won't pay any longer for a genuine night shoot. So what did we do? Bought welder's goggles, and they are worthless. Actually, they're less than worthless, because officers believe they're actually ready for low light armed encounters.

Prior to the goggles, we trained at night using all sorts of light sources. Cruiser light bars were the worst because the rotating lights have a tendency to disorient you and throw your aim in the opposite direction the lights are rotating.

With goggles, you can't "work the shadows" on move & cover exercises, and you can't learn to use muzzle flash for sight corrections.

In short, they do nothing positive for low light shooting, and are a very poor substitute for the real thing.

dctag · April 28, 2006, 12:12 AM

The biggest problem I see with fake low light is that with glasses on you cant see your tritium sights, your light from your flashlight, light from the moon, etc. In real low light your light is a tool, your sights a tool, etc. If you can't use any tools then you should probably stay away from gun-fighting in the dark. Unless you are Luke Skywalker you cant shoot worth a damn with your eyes closed. Its kind of like wearing sunglasses and then putting on night vision goggles. Whats the point?

-David

still 2 many choices · April 28, 2006, 08:26 AM

I guess until I can find a range that allows low light shooting, I will have to rely on my muscle memory, while hoping to never need to use my weapon

....

Back to the drawing board...

dctag · April 28, 2006, 01:51 PM

You can still do a lot of practice at your home. Dry firing with a flashlight and gun is different than using only a gun. Learning to search, reload, etc. is different when you use the flashlight. So go ahead and practice what you can dry. Most people do not put the time into dry firing that they probably should and doing with a flashlight is good practice.

-David

oldbillthundercheif · April 29, 2006, 08:37 PM

Just drive out into the swamps / desert / woods and be sure of your backstop. It's best if you know the property owner, but I'm sure there are places within a few hours drive of any city that are desolate enough for unnoticed night-shootin'. You might get the game wardens after you on suspicion of poaching, but if you explained your intentions to them they might even join you in lighting off a few.

April 25, 2006, 07:04 AM	#1
still 2 many choices Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Posts: 100	Tactical Sunglass Training?! The tactical part was just for fun, but does anybody here use really dark shades as a way to simulate low light shooting for selfdefense? Just thinking about a home invasion situation or, you are out at night walking to your car(million scenarios pop to mind). Of course we all have the,"tactical flashlight", nearby but when the SHTF, you may forget it, not want to use it, or be unable to deploy it... Shades, a good idea or bad ?

April 26, 2006, 05:08 PM	#7
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Agree that the best training is in actual low-light conditions. Erick's spot on regards the glasses DeSantis made. They were dark enough to weld with--and I did on a couple of occasions. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

April 26, 2006, 06:33 PM	#8
Tim Burke Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 1999 Posts: 551	The point of low light training is to learn how to manage low light conditions. Flashlight usage, night sight usage, and using the muzzle flash to refine your sight picture can not be practiced with the low light goggles. The goggles don't simulate low light conditions so much as they simulate being blind. __________________ TB., NC

April 27, 2006, 09:08 AM	#9
still 2 many choices Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Posts: 100	Thanx for some of the replys... Most were very informative. Only problem is many people don't have access to a place that allows shooting at night or in low light conditions, liability and all that stuff ....So of course if closer to realistic scenarios could be used, I would; but with range rules being the limiting factor, would this still be a viable idea to simulate some of what happens at night?

April 28, 2006, 08:26 AM	#13
still 2 many choices Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Posts: 100	All points taken, I guess until I can find a range that allows low light shooting, I will have to rely on my muscle memory, while hoping to never need to use my weapon .... Back to the drawing board...

April 25, 2006, 09:47 AM	#2
MEDDAC19 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Location: Endless Mts,NEPA Posts: 379	Well I don't do that at all now, but we did use very dark goggles in the Army to simulate night fire. They took us to the range with M16s loaded with tracers, we put the goggles on so we could learn how to direct our fire using the tracers for aiming purposes. I don't think they would be any good for home selfdefense though, the goggles were too dark to see anything but the tracer fire, and we could barely see that. I can shoot in my backyard so low light practice is easy for me to do. Those of you that use indoor ranges, can you get the management to lower the lighting? I think practice when conditions are less than optimal is a good idea. s2mc I think shades is a good idea but the wrap around style would be the only ones that would work. Don't you think regular ones would let too much bright light in from the sides? Not a bad idea.

April 25, 2006, 11:26 AM	#3
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	I just use darkness...more realisitic that way

April 25, 2006, 07:54 PM	#5
ribbonstone Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Posts: 179	We talking the FBI black plastic rimmed glasses...the SS's wire rims...red-neck's silvered lens...or California multi-colored surfer-dude lens?

April 25, 2006, 11:42 PM	#6
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	Wear the surfer-dude shades, and turn out the lights as well. Add strobe lights, lasers, fog machine, and techno music for the best training experience ever. Anybody know a range where we could do this? Count me in.

April 27, 2006, 09:40 AM	#10
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	How about just squinting

April 28, 2006, 12:12 AM	#12
dctag Member Join Date: October 23, 2001 Location: Orem Utah Posts: 47	The biggest problem I see with fake low light is that with glasses on you cant see your tritium sights, your light from your flashlight, light from the moon, etc. In real low light your light is a tool, your sights a tool, etc. If you can't use any tools then you should probably stay away from gun-fighting in the dark. Unless you are Luke Skywalker you cant shoot worth a damn with your eyes closed. Its kind of like wearing sunglasses and then putting on night vision goggles. Whats the point? -David

April 28, 2006, 01:51 PM	#14
dctag Member Join Date: October 23, 2001 Location: Orem Utah Posts: 47	You can still do a lot of practice at your home. Dry firing with a flashlight and gun is different than using only a gun. Learning to search, reload, etc. is different when you use the flashlight. So go ahead and practice what you can dry. Most people do not put the time into dry firing that they probably should and doing with a flashlight is good practice. -David

April 29, 2006, 08:37 PM	#15
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	Who Needs a Range? Just drive out into the swamps / desert / woods and be sure of your backstop. It's best if you know the property owner, but I'm sure there are places within a few hours drive of any city that are desolate enough for unnoticed night-shootin'. You might get the game wardens after you on suspicion of poaching, but if you explained your intentions to them they might even join you in lighting off a few.