Primer question for .223, urgent

Solvo Pium · December 12, 2009, 06:59 PM

Hey guys, I am scratching my head here. I bought alot of Lake City brass, already cleaned, trimmed, primed, etc. Shot'em, so now it is my turn to do the primers. I have read through alot of my cookbooks to use small rifle, but with Remington, to use 7 1/2. But some other books tell you to use small rifle, Remington 6 1/2. Or, they just tell you to use small rifle. I am at a huge loss here. I am shooting the .223 in an AR and Mini-14, so I know there is a difference with primers because of the slamming from these two rifles vs. a bolt action. Anyhow, help is greatly needed. As always, tipping my hat off to of all you and your opinions.

SwampYankee · December 12, 2009, 07:29 PM

I think the 7 1/2 is considered a magnum primer. It is a little hotter than the 6 1/2 and has a thicker cup. You can probably use it with the standard listed loads with out a problem (I use most magnum primers and have never seen overpressure signs). You could back your load down 5% to be safe, I personally would not bother. But then I hardly ever use max loads so it is not an issue.

The 7 1/2 may prevent potential pieced primers in semiautomatic guns.

jepp2 · December 12, 2009, 08:22 PM

The 7 1/2 is a bench rest primer, not a magnum. The 6 1/2 is normally not used in higher pressure rounds like the 223. At least my manuals never show the 6 1/2 for 223, but do show the 7 1/2. I either use the Rem 7 1/2 or the CCI 41 primer for my AR needs.

Tim R · December 12, 2009, 08:33 PM

The Rem 7 1/2 primer is a bench rest primer. I use a lot of these for my match tuned AR Service Rifles. As Jepp said they are not mag. primers.

I also found CCI BR's are simular to the 7 1/2's and can pretty much switch from one to the other without much of a change in my rifle dope.

I also found the Federal SR gold match primers don't stand up to my standard match load as they pierce.

Memnok · December 12, 2009, 10:20 PM

I do not have any experience with the 6 1/2's, but I have been doing a lot or research on reloading 223 for a semi-auto rifle. I read that the 6 1/2's have a softer cup and therefore are more susceptible to slam-fire in a rifle with a free floating firing pin, such as the AR. It was recommended that the 7 1/2's be used, or the CCI 400's and CCI #41's. The 41's have a thick cup designed especially for use in AR's.

Years ago I did lots of reloading for my Glock .40, and I'm now getting back into the hobby for the 223. I have been hearing good things about Wolf primers, so I ordered some 223 small rifle primers from Powder Valley. Like the CCI 41’s, they are made especially for 223. Three thousand of them arrived in the mail two days ago, so I hope they are as good as I hear!

snuffy · December 12, 2009, 11:42 PM

The remington 6 ½ primers are not to be used in .223 ammo!!!! AT ALL!

They are made for the .22 hornet and other low pressure rounds. Using the 6.5 will result in pierced primers, leading to damaged bolt faces, or in the case of my contender, the firing pin bushing was fryed.

The 7½ is made for the .223, it is both a benchrest AND some say a magnum primer.

steve4102 · December 13, 2009, 12:10 AM

The 6 1/2 primer is designed for very low pressure cartridges like the 22 Hornet, they are not to be used in the 223, any 223.
The 7 1/2 is Bench Rest primer and is also considered a Mag primer.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm

From Remington's web site.

In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds.

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/an...imers/r_id/166

.

80viking · December 13, 2009, 12:18 AM

you should be able to use any small rifle primer in the .223 as long as you follow the rules, work your way up and watch for the pressure signs, some loads that were developed in cold weather may be too hot in warm weather, I use magnum primers with ball powders regardless of the caliber, I've seen several instances of poor or erratic ignition of ball powders in med. to large rifle cases, hope this helps

steve4102 · December 13, 2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

you should be able to use any small rifle primer in the .223

Not really, the Remington 6 1/2 will not handle the pressures of the 223. Pierced primers are a bad thing, use the proper primer and avoid the hassles. Leave the 6 1/2 primers for the Hornet guys.

80viking · December 13, 2009, 12:42 AM

I agree with your advise, but if you were a good boy and worked up your loads carefully wouldn't you be able to use the rem. 6 1/2 and see the normal pressure signs but max out at a much lower pressure?.....just curious

alwayspackin1 · December 13, 2009, 01:10 AM

dude!!

this sucks!

I have about 300 rounds that I have loaded for my .223 using 6 1/2's!

moreover, I bought a brick of a thousand, and I don't even own a 22 hornet..

i loaded them very conservatively, just above starting loads, however in an attempt to conserve powder.

do you think i could shoot a couple and look for primer piercing? or should i buy a bullet puller?

this thread just meesed up an otherwise good saturday....

medalguy · December 13, 2009, 01:55 AM

You should be able to sell the primers locally on Craig's List or some other medium. They will sell.

This also points to the need to read, read, read before starting to reload. We see almost daily guys who want to jump in and start reloading on a progressive press without really knowing what they are doing. That's not to say us old timers have never made any mistakes, we all have. But it's still important to read and know what you're doing before jumping in. Many years ago I loaded a bunch of .30 carbine without realizing the importance of trimming the brass after EACH firing. That was my introduction to mass bullet pulling and live primer removal. It was the only way to safely shoot that ammo.

Take your time, and my suggestion would be to do what I do when working up a new load: load 10 rounds and see if they shoot OK, then work your way up in increments of 10 rounds and watch each group for pressure signs and anything else that looks abnormal. Use a chronograph to see what kind of velocity you are getting and use that information to help determine the final load you want.

steve4102 · December 13, 2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

i loaded them very conservatively, just above starting loads, however in an attempt to conserve powder.

do you think i could shoot a couple and look for primer piercing?

What's the load?

SwampYankee · December 13, 2009, 02:17 PM

I've never had a slam fire or a pireced primer in my AR-15 or either of my Mini-14's but I use mostly CCI and Federal small rifle primers and I always keep the pressure relatively modest. I know that even the "nonmagnum" CCI has pretty hard cups. Not sure about Federal.

You mentioned:

Quote:

But some other books tell you to use small rifle, Remington 6 1/2.

Are you sure? As was posted, the Remington website says they should not be used with .223- I assume to protect them from liability when someone decides to overcharge a load. If the book says use 6 1/2, I suspect it probably has a very conservative maximum load resulting in a low pressure round.

oneounceload · December 13, 2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

The 7 1/2 is a bench rest primer, not a magnum.

Bingo, and they work very well in my XP-100 in 7MM BR

This from Remington:

X22600 1 1/2 Small Pistol
X22604 2 1/2 Large Pistol
X22625 5 1/2 Small Pistol
X22606 6 1/2 Small Rifle
X22628 7 1/2 Small Rifle BR
X22608 9 1/2 Large Rifle
X22622 9 1/2M Magnum Rifle
XEL22610 9 1/2 Large Rifle (ETRONX™ Electric)

Solvo Pium · December 13, 2009, 09:45 PM

Thanks again for the input. I bought 6 1/2 small rifle primers, and upon my research, the 7 1/2 were the ones to actually use. So I will put the 6 1/2 primers on craig's list or something. I fell like a total blockhead. But, that's why I ask the questions. Will let you all know how they shoot.

December 12, 2009, 06:59 PM	#1
Solvo Pium Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: Where it is normally warm and hot 9 months out of the year. Posts: 49	Primer question for .223, urgent Hey guys, I am scratching my head here. I bought alot of Lake City brass, already cleaned, trimmed, primed, etc. Shot'em, so now it is my turn to do the primers. I have read through alot of my cookbooks to use small rifle, but with Remington, to use 7 1/2. But some other books tell you to use small rifle, Remington 6 1/2. Or, they just tell you to use small rifle. I am at a huge loss here. I am shooting the .223 in an AR and Mini-14, so I know there is a difference with primers because of the slamming from these two rifles vs. a bolt action. Anyhow, help is greatly needed. As always, tipping my hat off to of all you and your opinions.

December 12, 2009, 10:20 PM	#5
Memnok Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Posts: 33	I do not have any experience with the 6 1/2's, but I have been doing a lot or research on reloading 223 for a semi-auto rifle. I read that the 6 1/2's have a softer cup and therefore are more susceptible to slam-fire in a rifle with a free floating firing pin, such as the AR. It was recommended that the 7 1/2's be used, or the CCI 400's and CCI #41's. The 41's have a thick cup designed especially for use in AR's. Years ago I did lots of reloading for my Glock .40, and I'm now getting back into the hobby for the 223. I have been hearing good things about Wolf primers, so I ordered some 223 small rifle primers from Powder Valley. Like the CCI 41’s, they are made especially for 223. Three thousand of them arrived in the mail two days ago, so I hope they are as good as I hear! __________________ Clint ---------------------------------- Good government is no substitute for self-government. Mahatma Gandhi That government is best which governs least, because its people discipline themselves. - Thomas Jefferson

December 12, 2009, 11:42 PM	#6
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	The remington 6 ½ primers are not to be used in .223 ammo!!!! AT ALL! They are made for the .22 hornet and other low pressure rounds. Using the 6.5 will result in pierced primers, leading to damaged bolt faces, or in the case of my contender, the firing pin bushing was fryed. The 7½ is made for the .223, it is both a benchrest AND some say a magnum primer. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

December 13, 2009, 01:10 AM	#11
alwayspackin1 Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Southeast Arkansas Posts: 99	dude!! this sucks! I have about 300 rounds that I have loaded for my .223 using 6 1/2's! moreover, I bought a brick of a thousand, and I don't even own a 22 hornet.. i loaded them very conservatively, just above starting loads, however in an attempt to conserve powder. do you think i could shoot a couple and look for primer piercing? or should i buy a bullet puller? this thread just meesed up an otherwise good saturday.... __________________ *The glass is not half full, nor is it half empty. You simply have twice as much glass as you need.01/01/09*

December 13, 2009, 01:55 AM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	Slow down! You should be able to sell the primers locally on Craig's List or some other medium. They will sell. This also points to the need to read, read, read before starting to reload. We see almost daily guys who want to jump in and start reloading on a progressive press without really knowing what they are doing. That's not to say us old timers have never made any mistakes, we all have. But it's still important to read and know what you're doing before jumping in. Many years ago I loaded a bunch of .30 carbine without realizing the importance of trimming the brass after EACH firing. That was my introduction to mass bullet pulling and live primer removal. It was the only way to safely shoot that ammo. Take your time, and my suggestion would be to do what I do when working up a new load: load 10 rounds and see if they shoot OK, then work your way up in increments of 10 rounds and watch each group for pressure signs and anything else that looks abnormal. Use a chronograph to see what kind of velocity you are getting and use that information to help determine the final load you want.

December 12, 2009, 07:29 PM	#2
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	I think the 7 1/2 is considered a magnum primer. It is a little hotter than the 6 1/2 and has a thicker cup. You can probably use it with the standard listed loads with out a problem (I use most magnum primers and have never seen overpressure signs). You could back your load down 5% to be safe, I personally would not bother. But then I hardly ever use max loads so it is not an issue. The 7 1/2 may prevent potential pieced primers in semiautomatic guns.

December 12, 2009, 08:22 PM	#3
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	The 7 1/2 is a bench rest primer, not a magnum. The 6 1/2 is normally not used in higher pressure rounds like the 223. At least my manuals never show the 6 1/2 for 223, but do show the 7 1/2. I either use the Rem 7 1/2 or the CCI 41 primer for my AR needs.

December 12, 2009, 08:33 PM	#4
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	The Rem 7 1/2 primer is a bench rest primer. I use a lot of these for my match tuned AR Service Rifles. As Jepp said they are not mag. primers. I also found CCI BR's are simular to the 7 1/2's and can pretty much switch from one to the other without much of a change in my rifle dope. I also found the Federal SR gold match primers don't stand up to my standard match load as they pierce. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 13, 2009, 12:10 AM	#7
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	The 6 1/2 primer is designed for very low pressure cartridges like the 22 Hornet, they are not to be used in the 223, any 223. The 7 1/2 is Bench Rest primer and is also considered a Mag primer. http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm From Remington's web site. In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds. http://remington.custhelp.com/app/an...imers/r_id/166 .

December 13, 2009, 12:18 AM	#8
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	you should be able to use any small rifle primer in the .223 as long as you follow the rules, work your way up and watch for the pressure signs, some loads that were developed in cold weather may be too hot in warm weather, I use magnum primers with ball powders regardless of the caliber, I've seen several instances of poor or erratic ignition of ball powders in med. to large rifle cases, hope this helps

December 13, 2009, 12:42 AM	#10
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	I agree with your advise, but if you were a good boy and worked up your loads carefully wouldn't you be able to use the rem. 6 1/2 and see the normal pressure signs but max out at a much lower pressure?.....just curious

December 13, 2009, 09:45 PM	#16
Solvo Pium Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: Where it is normally warm and hot 9 months out of the year. Posts: 49	Figured it out Thanks again for the input. I bought 6 1/2 small rifle primers, and upon my research, the 7 1/2 were the ones to actually use. So I will put the 6 1/2 primers on craig's list or something. I fell like a total blockhead. But, that's why I ask the questions. Will let you all know how they shoot.