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Old July 13, 2017, 12:00 PM   #26
Lohman446
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I'm not slamming your reasoning it just seems kind of like as pointless as using a 300 magnum for deer with the other side of the argument.
I have intentionally hunted "Russian boar" with a .375 Holland and Holland. In my defense I may have been oversold on how tough they were. After dropping my .270 I was pressed into use the same rifle on a whitetail hunt and passed on the shots because I realized how ridiculous it was. This year I will hunt deer with a .243 because that is as small as I am comfortable going (I realize we are discussing slightly smaller). I get both sides of the argument and the lengths they go to.

Part of it I think has been the desire to "own just one gun" by people who primarly hunt whitetail. They buy a big enough gun to hunt Moose and as time passes the 30/06 becomes a "whitetail" gun with things like the .338 (and more) "needed" for larger game.

I think its kind of like a pendulum and it has been, in recent years, swung too far to the "too much power" side. It will swing back and we will likely have those hunting with too little power as a result. The problem is we cannot seem to agree on where "just right" is. I guess its a bit like Goldilocks.
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Old July 13, 2017, 08:12 PM   #27
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I've killed deer with cartridges from .223 to 300 Win mag with the majority taken with 30/06, 7x57, and the 25's( 257 Rob and 25/06). I used to tote my "buck buster" 30/06 until I'd filled my buck tag then move to the lighter recoiling rifles for my "meat gun". The 30/06 will make a kill from any angle.
With most decent game bullets, the 30 cals will put a deer down rapidly even with a less than optimum hit(not a gutshot). The 7x57 is basically equal in this respect. The 25's are on the edge of handling certain angle shots and often would require premium bullets to handle those severe quartering shots.
For those proponents of the "little gun" theory, I can only say that sooner or later you WILL lose an animal or kick yourself for having to pass a shot you could have made with a more powerful round.
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Old July 13, 2017, 10:49 PM   #28
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Its possible to use both cartridges for the taking of deer at those distances. But of the two choices I think the 223 is more appropriate for the purpose..
22-250 is a really fast bullet which more than likely will fragment upon contact. If you ever encounter a deer shot with a ultra high velocity varmint bullet that fragmented on the animals ribs or front shoulder. > Its a horrible thing to do to a Big Game animal. Without a doubt a bloody site I guarantee most fellows won't forget anytime soon.
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Old July 14, 2017, 10:29 AM   #29
taylorce1
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Originally Posted by Sure Shot Mc Gee
22-250 is a really fast bullet which more than likely will fragment upon contact. If you ever encounter a deer shot with a ultra high velocity varmint bullet that fragmented on the animals ribs or front shoulder.
There are plenty of bullets that will hold together at .22-250 velocities like Barnes TSX/TTSX, Nosler Bonded Perfomance, E-Tip, and Partitions, and Cutting Edge Raptors. You'll not have a bullet leave the kind of damage on a deer that you're talking about. Bullet selection is the most important thing when using smaller calibers.
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Old July 15, 2017, 12:00 AM   #30
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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There are plenty of bullets that will hold together at .22-250 velocities like Barnes TSX/TTSX, Nosler Bonded Perfomance, E-Tip, and Partitions, and Cutting Edge Raptors.
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You'll not have a bullet leave the kind of damage on a deer that you're talking about. Bullet selection is the most important thing when using smaller calibers.
I totally agree bullet selection is important as is bullet placement. No worst shot can a hunter make on thin skin big game than one accidentally aimed at the front leg ball & socket. Hit squarely. Meat destruction beyond anticipated is assured. ~~Hopefullly you agree?
The few varmint shooters I know wouldn't shoot {any} rodent with such spendy all copper or Noslers best.
More likely those fellers I know would buy the cheapest HP or plastic tipped bullet seconds sold.
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Old July 15, 2017, 06:57 AM   #31
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I've killed a few deer with the .22-250, but none over 150 yards. Back then (55+ yrs. ago) the only bullet that I used was a Nosler solid-based 55 grain Zipedo (no longer made).

My .22-250 was not accurate with 60 grain bullets, due to rifling (twist 1-14"?). In any case I wouldn't shoot another deer with less than a .243 Win, using tough bullets like the Hornady GMX.

A newbie hunter should use a cartridge that will give greater room for error, like the 7mm-08, IMHO. Recoil isn't bad and it will kill a deer at angles that would only cause painful wounds with lighter bullets.

One thing we need to consider is that the .223 was developed as a war round, and, as such, wounding the enemy is considered better than killing quickly, since it takes more people out of fight.

Hunting, on the other hand requires quick kills or blood trails to be able to find game that may have crawled off to tight cover before dying. (We've found too many deer that people have shot, but never recovered.)
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Old July 15, 2017, 11:53 AM   #32
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Basic training

Yup, the .223 / 5.56 MILITARY bullets are indeed designed to wound.

I remember our drill sergeant telling us that you could shoot em in the left elbow and the bullet could come out their right knee or some such BS. That was early 1970's BMTS in the USAF.

We got a grand total of one day on the range with the M16. It was the best day of basic however. There's a dubious distinction if ever I hear one.
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Old July 17, 2017, 09:32 AM   #33
HALL,AUSTIN
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The .223 was developed as a HUNTING round for varmints. The changes in the past decade of bullet technology make it useful as a deer cartridge. Would it be my "across the farm" caliber? No but I think most of us harvest white tail under 150 yards. In that range the .223 will do the deed if you put it where it needs to go. It's a cheaper round to practice with aswell. Nothing trumps shot placement, so practice all you can.
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Old July 17, 2017, 11:53 AM   #34
GeauxTide
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.243 or .264 for me. If you want a low recoil game cartridge, get a 6.5 Grendel. You'll be set for 300 yards.
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Old July 17, 2017, 12:08 PM   #35
zipspyder
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The .223 was not designed as a varmint hunting cartridge. It owes it's heritage directly from the military desire for a lightweight combat rifle. Remington introduced a commercial .223 that could reach 3200+ fps a few years after military testing. It became popular because it fit the need of two previously popular calibers, the .222 and the .222 magnum. That was mainly in the US because other countries wouldn't allow the sale of military caliber weapons. It just so happens it's best use is in the varmint hunting category.
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Old July 17, 2017, 02:12 PM   #36
Art Eatman
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zipspyder, does the original intent for a particular cartridge matter? The .223 is basically a .222 Magnum, so it's basically in the general category of "varmint cartridge". Bullet-maker R&D during these recent 15 or 20 years has produced bullets which are now known to work well on deer--for all that there are caveats for appropriate types of shots, as to angles and distances.
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Old July 17, 2017, 02:44 PM   #37
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@ Art, not at all. Shoot what you want with it. Just correcting another poster that said is was "designed" as a varmint hunting cartridge. Don't want misinformation or half truths floating around do we? Does it matter so much that I corrected the post for clarification?
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Old July 17, 2017, 04:12 PM   #38
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Yup, the .223 / 5.56 MILITARY bullets are indeed designed to wound.
I was under the impression that the so called Geneva convention mandated full metal patch bullets. Therefore, full metal jacket .223/5.56 bullets are designed in regard to the rules of war and whether or not they kill or wound is a moot point.
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Old July 17, 2017, 05:12 PM   #39
HALL,AUSTIN
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The .223 was offered in the Remington 760 in 1963, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old July 17, 2017, 05:57 PM   #40
Art Eatman
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Sorry, zipspyder; I had not recalled the earlier post.

dahermit, I don't recall that the US signed the Geneva deal, but we've gone along with it. Irrelevant to hunting, though.
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