December 20, 2008, 10:24 PM | #401 |
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Here is picture of the bolt for my big gun, the 700HE.
It is holding a 700HE long case. The caseholder extraction system can headspace a BMG rimless case,no belt, so you could put on a 12ga barrel, straighten case more, from .700 to .729" and have the rimless 12ga. Could straighten case for a .750" bore, even to 10ga(.775") with a little thinning of the top one inch of the case. Experimenting is interesting to say the least. 700 slugs in pic are 1000gr Woodleigh, 1000gr PA, 825gr Copperhead Custom(CC), 770gr FP CC, 1000gr HP CC, 825gr HP CC..Ed
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ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; December 20, 2008 at 10:31 PM. |
December 21, 2008, 01:52 PM | #402 |
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You know that this makes you a gun nut far and above all other gun nuts,,,
I am proud of you for building such a monster,,,, but,,,, You could have saved yourself a lot of work,, you know they did make anti-tank bolt action guns back in the 30’s, 20 or 22 millimeter. You couldn’t pay me to shoot that monster, but I would give any thing to see it hit,,,, say a 55 gallon barrel full of water. That gun deserves to be on Myth busters. |
December 23, 2008, 12:21 AM | #403 |
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Thankyou-When spring gets here we will do a plastic 15 gallon
barrel with top load in the 700 with a hollowpoint. the one we did with 12GA FH in Youtube video was a 6 gal pail. There is a new heavy barreled rifled slug gun out, the Rossi Model S12 1230S. It will handle our heavier loads like the NEF. And it can have chamber lengthened for 3.5" plastic and RMC brass 12ga cases. Ed
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December 27, 2008, 09:53 PM | #404 |
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The BPI sabot is tending toward small diameter.
With a .512" slug it measures . 727"---So I run one into die and reduced it .020". It is lead, swaged easy. Shot a BPI sabot with 385gr Great plains slug in 700HE great big gun pictured above. That Great plains slug was reduced .020". With 300gr of super fast ball powder blend in 3.85" case got over 4500. Using slugs with locked on bases and RG's hollowbase jacketed slug in 3.5" RMC brass cases in the 1887 Win levergun. RG's 670 gr HB- 2500 . Brenekke KO 435gr- 2700, Lightfield 460 gr- 2600 . Even got a 385gr in BPI sabot to target straight.Levergun has 34" smooth barrel and with chamber for 3.5" long cases it is run as singleshot. Barrel is a tight smoothbore going from .726" to .722". Took out lifter and other stuff and put in a bottom style extractor I built that is operated by the lever at bottom of opening stroke. Then take cases out with fingers, thus able to handle long cases in a short action.Makes a real old timey, neat looking, single shot blaster.Ed
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January 1, 2009, 02:31 AM | #405 |
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Before I posted about testing a NEF in 10ga with
a medium heavy barrel. The newer one is better. It is the one I showed the ported barrel previously. I did some 10ga FH testing in that newer, real heavy barreled, NEF 10ga, that is going to soon be an 8GA FH, after reaming out. The internal brake set up on the end as shown in picture above works great. I stopped all of the muzzle rise and cut recoil Gun now is 14 lbs and has thumbhole stock. Top load with 3.5" plastic case, 765gr slug, 135gr of 4227, 2200 fps, 8200 ft lbs.Ed
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January 5, 2009, 01:13 AM | #406 |
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A 28GA FH new slug.. The Lyman cast 20ga slug made to
fit in a 20ga shotcup for 20 ga slug hunters, works perfect in the 28GA FH brass case. It is a hollowbases hourglass shaped 362 gr slug. No wadcups or wads needed, loaded right on powder. It is the slug you buy the molds to cast your own or you can buy them from guys who cast for sale. I use slow rifle powders in case so no air space, they fill to the slugs. I got 2900 with moderate case expansion and it hits target straight on, from a smooth 28ga heavy barrel on 695 Mossberg bolt action. Other new info on primers. Some of the guns can't have the firing pins or hammers beefed up easy like my Enfields With some magnum primers with hard cups you get delayed ignition if hammer doesn't have perfect hit and high strength. One test with a small diameter case/bore that any primer will ignite slow powders fine with good firing pin spring would show delayed ignition with shotgun battery cup style 209 CCI Mag and 209 Federal Mag primers, and when I tested them in cases with just the primers, they only put in a small dent when they fired, but WIN 209, REM 209, RWS 209(used in Brenekkes, Lightfields, Hastings), dented in much more when firing just the primer. And with the smaller bore you had fire out the end of the barrel, so you could compare primer strength visually. The REM 209 was as good or better than CCI and FED 209 Mag Primers. The WIN and RWS was close behind. We put the REM in same case/gun where that we had delayed ignition and it fired instantly, no delay. The two mag primer brands have the primer insert in cup rounded a lot and little harder metal, and the other 3 metal cup insert is almost flat and slightly softer. It is easier to get a better more solid strike and dent. I always figured mag primers were best in our hopped up shotgun loads but not anymore. It took a while but I finally got everything around for proper test. Hopped up loads(regular also) we have talked about, use REM 209, where the firing pins and hammers can't be strengthened. Even loads with Longshot, Blue Dot, Steel, HS6-7, etc. Hope this helps.....ED
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January 7, 2009, 12:22 PM | #407 |
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More pimer info-- Some guys tell me that large rifle primers
in Magtech and other brands that make brass 12 ga cases are more powerful than shotgun primers in brass cases. First of all there is no major mfg selling loaded brass ammo so their isn't lot of them out there with shotgun primers, that have to meet industry specs and reliability. It is mainly reloaders doing it. The large rifle primers are flat on top once loaded in the case and they are not real hard metal so they give real good ignition, hence the thinking they are stronger than shotgun primers. But if shotgun primers are ignited ok they do have a little more power as can be seen in my smaller shotgun barrel tests where the flame comes out the end of the 28ga barrel to see easy, and you see how far the flame extends. And lab tests show that if both ignited ok that shotgun primers are stronger. I've had too many click bangs and the purpose of this bunch of tests is to get primer reliability for guys reloading slugs with all the variances in cases, headspace, firing pin strength, different powders etc. So others don't get misfires and delayed ignition. ED
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January 7, 2009, 05:03 PM | #408 |
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Hubel, have you shot any critters with this or should I say these calibers yet? Can you say PENETRATION?
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January 9, 2009, 12:20 AM | #409 |
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I've shot brass slugs & solid bullets through 6 foot bundles
of hardwood slabs. Shot lead bullets through 1/4" steel plate, makes huge hole. Many guys in the midwest and south have used the hopped up loads in plastic and brass 2.75", 3", and 3.5" cases for deer and hogs. Shot couple pigeons with hopped up 10ga shot load going about 2000 fps.Ed
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January 11, 2009, 08:22 PM | #410 |
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Here is picture my NEF, soon to be, 8ga gun.
It weighs 15 lbs. The hollow butt and hollows in the forearm are weighted. It has a neat recoil barrel ring I added so forearm stays put. It has internal brake on barrel that I picture earlier in thread with the porting holes. Second picture is a Lyman 520 gr slug on the right that we are testing . They go in regular 12ga shotcups, and many folks have good accuracy with them, even in smooth bores. They are hollowbase nose-heavy design. These are the ones you cast your own. And there are guys casting some for sale. On the left is my prototype of the Lyman style, of 900gr for our 8GA FH. Going to get a mold made. The base of it will fit the 8ga shotcup used in the kiln gun loads, and the front will be our smoothbore 8ga size, .832-835". I designed this as the flat ended kiln slug wasn't designed to give accuracy in a smoothbore. Ed
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ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; January 11, 2009 at 08:28 PM. |
January 17, 2009, 01:10 AM | #411 |
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The picture is some aluminum cored jacketed slugs
RG made, weighing 385 gr. Full .730" diameter, hollowpoint, and one I filled nose with glue gun. Fairly streamlined. 3600 in the Savage with our long case..Slug is nice and long, 1.22" HP and 1.4" with plastic I put in the nose. In Nef with RMC 3.5" brass case 2700, 3.5" plastic 2500. Ed
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January 17, 2009, 01:20 AM | #412 |
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I still can't figure out what I would use it for, but I WANT ONE!!!!!!
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January 22, 2009, 12:15 AM | #413 |
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You can make big holes you can see easy.
RIP on AR forums been testing starter powders loads, with shotgun primers,with Blue Dot starter and HBMG main load. And I just tested some variety of ones myself. Doing some testing with starter powder, 15gr Blue Dot, with slower powders that fill the cases with minimum wads. Tested in 3.5" RMC case in NEF with shotgun primer, with 36" added to barrel.Remember I have extra foot of bbl. These 4 top loads expanded case, where I check it, just above thick base section to .811" from .807" resized. 1000gr jacketed, 230gr HBMG, 1800 fps, 7200 ft lbs, with 1/8" card and 1/4" felt wad. 715gr jkt, 270gr HBMG, 2200, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card. 600gr Dixie, 250 gr Retumbo, 2400, 7600 ft lbs, 1/8" card. 385gr jkt AL core, 250 gr RL25,2900, 7200 ft lbs. Now the starter powder loads, which a few guys like, increase powder speeds so that HBMG acts like RL25. In first example, with 1000 gr in RMC case you couldn't use 230gr of RL25 as that would expand RMC brass too much and stick the case. A few guys have found that slow powder, with starter powder is easiest for 1000gr and heavier loads. On another note, I've heard around the grapevine that if enough of us ask for NEF to make available a 12ga Ultra with a 28" rifled bull barrel that they would do it.Start calling folks, maybe do some good. Just tell them these new sabot and fullbore slug loads need more barrel to get the velocity out of them. 1-866-776-9292. Ed
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ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; January 22, 2009 at 07:48 PM. |
January 26, 2009, 02:28 AM | #414 |
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Here is picture of 28GA FH brass case with the 350gr
Lyman cast slug. It is the slug you cast to use originally in 20ga shot cups, for slug hunting. It is nose heavy and will work in smooth bores. Brass 3.25" cases from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. It will work in NEF/H&R 28ga modern break action guns that cost 150 bucks, 26" barrel, you lengthen chamber for the brass case. Good hunting loads would be 2000 fps and the gun with a little weight added and good pad would handle it fine. Had a few guys ask about 28ga slug shooting, here is away..Ed
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January 31, 2009, 01:43 AM | #415 |
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Here is a double projectile load that would make a
good defense load. Two Brenekkes doubled up in RMC case in the NEF. 85 gr of 4227 pushing 2 one ounce KO slugs about 1600. Bottom slug has seal. Also found a way to adapt extra slugs to 10ga. A 515 gr Lyman slug for use in 12ga wadcup, in my 10ga, by using thickwall BPI steel no slit wadcup shortened and Lyman bottomed out in it, so it is like a discard on impact sabot slug. Like Lightfield and Hastings. I shaved the bottom diameter of Lyman so it would fit tight. Similar deal for 16ga using BPI 16ga no slit heavy shot cup and 20ga Lyman. Now we have it so that 2 Lymans can fit 10,12,16,20,28 ga....Ed PS- I ask all of you for a favor. Would you please go to the thehighroad.us forums, join in and support them. The owner has had original Highroad domain stolen from him and he is in court to get it back. He is in the right and if you folks show up there it will help. And if you can stand it until court rules stay away from the first highroad and ask your friends to do the same.
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January 31, 2009, 07:04 PM | #416 |
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All I can say is...well..... yea thats all ive got to say. Wow. I am looking all over youtube and I can't find the vid on it. Is there a vid? Is there a link to it?????????????
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February 1, 2009, 12:30 AM | #417 |
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I get it by search term "Grandpa's Cannon"
it worked a while back.ED
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February 4, 2009, 12:14 AM | #418 |
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Here is 12ga prototype cushioned base sabot I put
together to show how heavy of powder seal and heavy cushion base that is needed. That eliminates the blowouts and damage that was happening to sabots unless I put a card under sabot. Just used a Brenekke seal/cushion base, epoxied to bottom of sabot. Even fired one and it got out the barrel and 437gr slug hit target straight. Ed
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February 7, 2009, 09:39 PM | #419 |
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Some 8ga experimenting and info. The 8ga chambers
I have are set up to fire the regular 8ga size cases, and also REM kiln cases with bases turned smaller, where the extra short basecup is formed over the inside cup.Just reduce to the diameter that it chambers ok and regular case doesn't expand very much fired in same chamber. This idea came from UK 8ga hunters that found it was easier to get kiln cases. Now the other case in 8ga available is the WIN kiln case and ones I've seen are only single thickness basecup, but they have the step formed in them to match the kiln case belt size. Now you can't turn them down any to fit my chamber, BUT you can swage them down .012" in a die with a lttle lube on the basecup. Examining them they do expand much more than the doubled up REMs.I fired REMs 4-5 times with bases expanding .002", the WIN I did expanded .005" in one shot. I will use heavier built REMs as they are 70cents primed and good for 4-5 shots, hairy loads.Ed
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February 12, 2009, 01:56 AM | #420 |
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I glued up 3 of 12ga prototype sabots. At 25yds( the 50yd range
is in the water and snow) And the three with 437gr .512" slugs I did one 2" group with peep sights and bad eyes. Running about 2400 fps from RMC case in the NEF 12GA FH Shot 3 of my 28ga FH with Lyman 360gr at 2100, from the Enfield 28GA FH, and got same size group.Real windy when testing . Going cold and ready to snow again. Shot a 600 grain Dixie hardened heatreated slug, in Savage in our long case at 2900 though two-- 1/4" steel plates with 2" of wood between them. Made big hole.Ed
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February 12, 2009, 07:25 AM | #421 |
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We're going to have to find you some elephants to shoot at, Ed.
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February 12, 2009, 09:16 AM | #422 |
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I just want to know when you guys start necking down 20MM shells to fire steel core 223 rounds through the sides of tanks.
I think you should try, even if it is not possible. |
February 12, 2009, 05:08 PM | #423 |
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johnw....careful now, probably shouldn't be saying things like that out loud, even in jest.
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February 14, 2009, 11:46 AM | #424 |
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A 223/20mm would be a bit overbore. Here is pic of
one necked to 50cal, that Bob Snapp made for a company testing armour 40 years ago.50 bmg on left for comparison....Ed
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February 15, 2009, 10:49 PM | #425 |
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Before it got cold again got little more testing done.
I shot 8ga Lyman 900gr wasp-style slug out of the Enfield at 2350. I made it from heat treated lead REM kiln gun slugs, and it went through 6 foot of hardwood slabs in my backstop. Hit target square, behind chrono, which is great from smoothbore. It is hollowbase and seems very stable.And real hard. I shot 3 shot group, with 12ga 525gr Lyman, in 87 smoothbore long barrel levergun, At 25 yards they all made hole like cloverleaf. Used 3.5" RMC brass, with Lyman in a WW12-114 shotcup, going 2100.Now my 87 smooth barrel is .722" at muzzle, .726" at breech, so it gives tight support to shotcup and Lyman slug, for fairly accurate load.....Ed
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