School me on Broomhandles

[Webleymkv]

So a local pawn shop has a Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" in the case for $1100. I've always been interested in that model and am finally in a financially stable enough place to be able to afford one. As far as I can tell, it's in 7.63 Mauser and is not a Bolo model. Also, it does not come with the holster/stock but overall seems to be in pretty nice shape.

What common issues do I need to look out for and what would be a fair price for a so-described specimen? While I obviously wouldn't put the gun to heavy use, I'd like to be able to shoot it every now and again with commercial ammo like Prvi Partizan or Fiocchi. Also, would affixing a reproduction holster/stock run afoul of the NFA?

[mapsjanhere]

The price is at the low end for anything with at least 50% finish and no pitting. You need to check the barrel, the barrels are made in one piece with the receiver top and not easily changed. There's a lot with nearly smoothbore barrels after 100+years.
Shooting the C96 is odd. The barrel is higher above the grip as we're used to today, and the gun seems to do mainly barrel rise than conventional recoil. Also, get some stripper clips, the slide does not lock back an loading without one is a pain. But if you get it working you have the most powerful handgun this side of the magnum revolver cartridges, it lead that category for over 40 years.

[James K]

Many "broomhandles" were imported from China a few years back, most in pretty ratty shape. They were often reworked to 9mm (with fake "Red Nine" grips added) but most were kept in the original 7.63mm caliber. However, they were almost always heavily polished and reblued, and have bad bores.

The originals were rust blued (like pre-1930's Lugers). The markings should be clear and sharp, not blurred or with parts of the letters missing. The corners should be sharp, the barrels without waves. The numbers should be on the side barrel flat and on the back.

The price seems good for an original gun, but the sad fact is that originals in good condition are scarce and usually more costly. My view is that there is nothing wrong with a reblued/reworked gun if it is sold honestly at the right price for such an item. But the buyer should be aware of what the gun is and judge accordingly, both in price and desirability.

Jim

[kilimanjaro]

A new stock is a legal boo-boo, provided BATFE sees you with one.

As others said, check the finish. It should be original for $1100. If you buy it, get a Wolff spring set and begin the next phase of your life looking for original strippers. The new Chinese ones are functional, but poorly made.

The PRVI ammo is pretty good. Good brass is available from Starline if you reload, and it's best to load a skosh light considering the newest of original pistols is nearly a century old.

[4V50 Gary]

Can't say much without more identifying pictures to show the characteristics of that particular Broomhandle in question. Here are the three books I have on my shelves and they are in the order of the oldest published work to the newest (which is the 1990s):

James Belford & Jack Dunlap: The Mauser Self-Loading Pistol
Brethed & Shroeder - System Mauser: A Pictorial History of the 1896 Self Loading Pistol
Wayne Erickson & Charles Pate - The Broomhandle Mauser, 1896-1936

[JD0x0]

I wish a firearm manufacture would remanufacture and sell a copy of the Shansi Type 17 in .45 acp... That's right a .45 cal Broomhandle. Talk about badass

[kilimanjaro]

I recall in the 1960's it was stated that machining a true replica would cost about $2,000 in labor. With CNC that would be less, now, but inflation would still run one up to thousands of dollars.

[44 AMP]

Also, get some stripper clips, the slide does not lock back an loading without one is a pain. But if you get it working you have the most powerful handgun this side of the magnum revolver cartridges, it lead that category for over 40 years.

The bolt is held back by the magazine follower (sort of like on a Mauser rifle). Once you depress the follower, the spring shuts the gun, unless you have something in the way such as a stripper clip (or your finger!)

10 rnds in the clip. Pull the bolt back, insert the loaded stripper clip, press rounds down into the magazine (some wiggle may be needed). Remove stripper clip and the bolt chambers the top round in the mag. Gun is ready to run.

Not sure about clips today. A few years ago you could still get them from GUnParts Co (Numrich). Used (and usually rusty) were a bit over a dollar, new ones (or new looking) were $5 a pop. In a pinch, you might be able to get USGI 5.56mm stripper clips to work.

I had a Bolo, that had been converted to 9mm. It was the most uncomfortable/unpleasant 9mm to shoot that I have ever encountered. The size & shape of the grip were part of it, but the large slot in the grip (for the stock attachment) was the biggest part of it. That gun bites, and unless you're tougher than I am, I would recommend a glove.

Also,I don't believe the .30 Mauser is the most powerful, short of magnum revolver cartridges. Fastest, yes, but the light bullet, while fast by handgun standards wasn't the power leader below magnum rounds. That pride of place was held by the .45 Colt, until the .357 Magnum came along in 1935.

[Jim Watson]

I have seen pictures of a loose cartridge loading adapter.
It is a piece of small channel iron that you drop over the exposed bolt to hold it open while you fill the magazine. Pluck it out, the bolt closes and you are ready to shoot.

[mapsjanhere]

I ordered a couple packets of the rusty strips from Numrich. They seem to be coated with Navy jelly and need cleaning. I took mine apart and threw them in the brass tumbler. Worked reasonably well to clean them up, but I still have issues getting all ten round to feed right. I do better with 5 round strips.

[1911nutjob]

Longtime lurker, first post. I've owned more than one broomie over the years, and I felt compelled to sign up only to give you a few safety pointers. If you buy the gun, before you fire even one round, buy a new reproduction bolt stop made from modern steel and swap it in-it is the only part stopping the bolt from flying into your face. Don't risk your face to a hundred year old bolt stop that might be fatigued or cracked. Keep the old one, as they are typically numbered and increase the value of the gun if all the parts are matching. Don't let anyone tell you that it's safe to fire 7.62x25 tokarev from a broomhandle either. It will fit, but should never be done. I lost an extractor that way in my youth before I learned better and consider myself lucky. Sorry for the long post, I'll just close it with saying the broomhandle is a ton of fun to shoot. If you reload, even better!

[James K]

Another problem, though obviously uncommon, is a bolt cracking due to runout or near runout in the firing pin channel. When that happens, the rear part of the bolt comes back into the shooter's face. A new bolt stop won't help, since it stops the front of the bolt, not the rear.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

"is a bolt cracking due to runout or near runout in the firing pin channel."

that's why I will no longer shoot Broomhandle Mausers, which is unfortunate because I think they are just neater than all get out.

[James K]

The reason I mentioned that is because I knew a man who had it happen. He was not seriously injured, but probably only his tempered shooting glasses saved his eye from serious injury. The glass frame was bent, but the lens held.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

"The reason I mentioned that is because I knew a man who had it happen."

Same here.

The guy got more than a dozen stitches and a fractured cheekbone.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by James K

Another problem, though obviously uncommon, is a bolt cracking due to runout or near runout in the firing pin channel. When that happens, the rear part of the bolt comes back into the shooter's face. A new bolt stop won't help, since it stops the front of the bolt, not the rear.

Jim

Could explain in a bit more details? Runout in the firing pin channel. Does it mean an over sized firing pin hole? Thanks.

-TL

[4V50 Gary]

So the bolt lock and the bolt should be replaced?

Would x-ray and magna-flux detect a flaw?

[James K]

Bolts are hard to get and expensive and since the damage may be hidden, I would not say to just automatically replace it, partly because you could be replacing a good bolt with a bad one.* But I would certainly inspect it closely and check the bolt body for any holes or cracks.

Runout means that a machine operation, like drilling the hole for the firing pin channel, goes a bit awry and the hole "runs out" to the side. In the case of the Mauser bolt, the hole runs out into the bottom between the ribs or comes close to doing so, leaving a paper-thin piece of steel in that area. The steel is very thin at that point anyway and even though the bolt might not crack immediately, a stress riser is created and a crack can develop and spread until the bolt breaks at the weak point.

*The same is true of the bolt stop, which is why I don't suggest just replacing one automatically.

Jim

[tangolima]

OK, i see what you mean. The firing pin channel is the hollowing in the bolt for the firing pin shank to go in. I can see the bolt can be weakened if it off center or oversized.

For mine c96, the main issue is the firing pin hole being too big, compared to the firing pin tip of course. So much so that the primer start to crater when load is mildly hot. I'm loading with 110gr bullet for m1 carbine. I need to stop at 1100fps. Eventually I will have firing pin hole bushed when I have enough money left over.

Thanks for the info.

-TL

[radom]

My worry is not the bolt in the pin its the bolt stop. that snap you get the entire bolt in the eye. Kind of like dont walk on a beach when they have sand drags in the race lanes as you may get said in the shoes.

[tangolima]

Yes the bolt stop is a bit scary. I think several guns from the same era have similar issue, some are better than the others of course. One example I remember is the Luger p08. The big pin at the back is the only thing that stop the bolt and toggle from flying back into the shooter's face. The pin is stout, but it can fail too. Most accidents are caused by people using improper replacement, including wood dowel.

What I can do is inspect it closely and avoid shooting hot loads, if I want to continue firing my c96. Certainly wear good eye protection too.

-TL

[James K]

I don't know about Lugers with the receiver axle made of wood, but I have never heard of a steel one failing. One of the gun types that can have the slide come back at the shooter is the double link Colt series, designed by the revered John Browning. If the slide stop (Colt's name for the "wedge") breaks or is missing, or the slide breaks, there is nothing to stop the slide from coming straight back. That was one of the concerns of the Army when they tested those guns and one of the things they demanded be corrected.

Jim

[tangolima]

Learned this from our gunsmithing instructor.

The original Luger pin has snug fit and proper heat treatment. It seldom fails. The problem is when people lost the pin. Since it is such a common shape, people would use things of all sorts as replacement. Drill rod, nail, wood dowel, or even do without. Those improper replacements would fail quickly and sometimes the consequence be ugly.

Perhaps it could be a bit worse than the broomhandle as the c96's bolt stop is a lot difficult to find improper replacement for, due to its odd shape.

-TL

[James K]

Far be it from me to dispute a gunsmithing instructor, but even if the axle was made of chewing gum, I don't see how the breechblock could come back at the shooter, as it would be stopped by the frame abutment. I tried to assemble a Luger without the axle, but can't do it, because the rear toggle drops down and won't let the receiver come back far enough to install the sideplate.

As for replacing the axle, if I ever had to do it and had no proper part, I would not hesitate to make one from drill rod and harden it properly.

Jim

[tangolima]

Drill rod is the material to make drill bits. It is hard and brittle. It will shatter under shock.

-TL