Doublebarrels OK for informal clay pigeons? - Page 4

**Mike Irwin** · November 21, 2014, 11:34 PM

Few years ago I saw a guy shooting sporting clays locally with a Holland & Holland.

He was driving a Bentley Continental.

Toss up which cost him more.

Virginian · November 22, 2014, 06:23 AM

I don't know but I would definitely prefer the Holland and Holland.

B.L.E. · November 22, 2014, 09:06 AM

Fifty years from now, that Holland and Holland will still be a Holland and Holland shotgun. The money used to buy a Holland and Holland today might buy you a new economy car fifty years from now.

Or at least that's how I rationalize buying fine guns.

darkgael · November 25, 2014, 07:14 AM

Quote:

The money used to buy a Holland and Holland today might buy you a new economy car fifty years from now.

Fifty years from now, I will be 118. Probably won't be driving or shooting by that time.
If I were able to afford a H&H Royal, I would have been enjoying it for all of that time...

Pretty thing, ain't it.
Pete

riflemen · November 25, 2014, 08:05 AM

I have some nice investment grade shotguns, I DO NOT bring them to trap, skeet, sporting clay shoots, lol...

I bring my A400 Xcel or beretta 686 onyx or both, Them both cost under $4000 new, I also have a citori that I will sometimes bring, but I have gotten so good with the 686 I don't use the browning as much...

I have a buddy that can afford any shotgun he wants and he uses a CZ redhead target, I was with him the day he bought it for $1000 plus tax brand new, he has won more competitions with that thing no matter what the next guy spent on his gun, he has beat me more times than I can count and we have swapped guns, he still beats me with my gun...

So its not the gun I can assure you, if you can afford it and it swings well for you, shoot it. If there is a snob on the field making you uncomfortable, ask him to see his fancy gun {he will be more than glad to show it off} and drop it "by accident" as you hand it back to him, lol just kidding, that could get you shot...

I have noticed certain fields bring certain types of people. I don't care what the others think, I pay my dues, I am a member, I can shoot what I want. I find that more of an issue than what gun you shoot is- what some of these snobs have labelled "range etiquette", this used to just be a list of common sense rules that were more safety minded than anything else.
Now they have morphed into something different- "don't drop your shells on the ground", "don't bend over to pick up shells", ect ect ect..

I wear a pouch vest because I am lazy and don't want to bend over to pick up shells everytime, but if someone else wants to bend over and pick out of a box, that doesn't bother me, at a range meeting we had a few guys said "its distracting" a friend of mine replied "if you are distracted by me bending over maybe I am in the wrong club", we thought it was funny, the snobs did NOT. Also with the letting your shells drop issue, if you pick them up who cares where they land when you are shooting, I am an offender of this, I let them drop at my feet and then when I am done, I pick them all up and put them in my vest, these guys drop them in their hands, the bending over thing really is not popular wit the gun snobs for some reason...

Dreaming100Straight · November 25, 2014, 04:17 PM

Bending over can delay play, if the fields are busy and other squads are line up and ready to go. I say if a registered shoot is not on and the field isn't backed up pick them up. I do if the next squad isn't ready to go and since I don't delay anyone no one has said a hoot.

Because 'Merica · November 29, 2014, 04:10 PM

shot in a fund raiser tournament with like 250+ shooters. Was using a a Benelli Nova. Yes i was snickered at when everyone was unloading their expensive trap guns and O/U's. But i had been practicing for two weeks and i was really sharp with that benelli. Id say i won half of my rounds of trap.

B.L.E. · December 1, 2014, 11:03 PM

I'm just wondering, if you do show up at the trap/skeet range with a new Krieghoff or something similar, is it considered gauche to leave the price tag hanging from it Minnie Pearl style?

Ricklin · December 2, 2014, 02:21 AM

Perfect, yup leave that price tag on there

Virginian · December 2, 2014, 06:09 AM

I have a friend with a $100,000+ Kreighoff (he told me when I asked but I forget the exact figure) and he shoots it quite well in all 4 gauges. He also has Remington 3200, a Perazzi, another K gun, an older Win 101, and a whole bunch of others. One of the great O/U lovers of all time, and was on two state teams for years. He is way more of a clay shooter than I have been for 35 years now. He shoots an 11-87 I sold him for waterfowl, but before the season he will take it to the range for a little practice. I love it when someone tells him he really should get an O/U to shoot clays with just before he rips off a 100 straight with the 11-87. As you get older, you find you are less concerned with 'image'.

darkgael · December 2, 2014, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Yes i was snickered at when everyone was unloading their expensive trap guns and O/U's. But i had been practicing for two weeks and i was really sharp with that benelli. Id say i won half of my rounds of trap.

Where do you guys shoot that you get this snickering? I started shooting Trap with an old Mossberg and an even older Ithaca 37 at the Staten Island Sportsman's Club....all I ever received was advice and help.
I mention this because I dont want to leave the impression that all Trapshooters are snobs. It just aint so.
Pete

PS and BTW: Here's a bit of what $100K buys you in a Kreighoff K80:

B.L.E. · December 2, 2014, 07:15 AM

You would have to buy that gun its own seat on an airplane if you flew to an event, like Yo Yo Ma's cello.

B.L.E. · December 2, 2014, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricklin

Perfect, yup leave that price tag on there

The only reason I even brought this up was because I treated myself to a new toy for Christmas and I'm torn whether or not to pull off that big old "Browning" decal stuck on the barrel. I'm not really into having gear with advertising all over it. It seems a little gauche to me.
I tried pulling it off but it looks like it might take a heat gun or maybe a dozen black powder shells shot through it real fast to loosen it.

Virginian · December 2, 2014, 06:35 PM

I'm with you on gauche. Who is Tommy Hilfiger and why in the hell would I want to wear his shirt?
Wife's hair dryer will do it.
My buddy has one of four I think he said Krieghoff Royal Crown 4 gauge sets. The gold is different than that one. It has flown in the bay of a C-130 and C-141 many times. He's ex-Air Force.

mattL46 · December 3, 2014, 06:35 PM

Really enjoyed reading this thread. I wonder what they would think of me unzipping my M12 winchester that looks like it tumbled down a mountain right into a lake. If I do my part it can't miss. We throw a lot of clay in my back pasture. Dad will occasionally bring his LC smith. Long range gun. Stupid fun to shoot. Extremely accurate. Will break them at ridiculous yardage. You run into "snobs" in just about any human activity. I just chuckle at them.

B.L.E. · December 3, 2014, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginian-in-LA

I'm with you on gauche. Who is Tommy Hilfiger and why in the hell would I want to wear his shirt?
Wife's hair dryer will do it.

Yes, but then I'll have to explain why I need her hair dryer.

The bad thing about shooting a conspicuously expensive gun is that you feel that much more humiliated when someone totally beats you with a Mossberg 500.

darkgael · December 4, 2014, 03:48 PM

Quote:

my M12 winchester

A young fellow that I shoot with at the aforementioned Sportsman's Club, uses his grandfather's old model 12. He shoots it quite well....even on doubles.
No one there....not the guys with the Perazzis, the K80s, the Lujtics...no one has ever said anything untoward about him and his old field gun. They respect his shooting and his focused approach to the sport.

Quote:

you feel that much more humiliated when someone totally beats you with a Mossberg 500

Only if you expect the gun to do the shooting for you. I have a nice BT-99. the young man mentioned above beats every time we shoot....i am happy to shoot my average +/-; his is better than mine. Nothing to do with the guns.
Pete

Dreaming100Straight · December 4, 2014, 05:10 PM

What is the point of this thread other than to beat the class envy horse to death?

B.L.E. · December 6, 2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Only if you expect the gun to do the shooting for you. I have a nice BT-99. the young man mentioned above beats every time we shoot....i am happy to shoot my average +/-; his is better than mine. Nothing to do with the guns.
Pete

I just tried out my new BT-99 today, there was one other gentleman practicing trap and he was shooting an even fancier trap gun. Yes, he outshot me, I left a few of them to breed.

Looking at the gun racks at the club, I saw more semi-autos than anything else, some even with camo paint. The point is, you don't need a fancy high dollar gun to fit in at your local trap and skeet club.

darkgael · December 7, 2014, 06:59 AM

Quote:

you don't need a fancy high dollar gun to fit in at your local trap and skeet club.

+1.

B.L.E. · December 7, 2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Only if you expect the gun to do the shooting for you. I have a nice BT-99. the young man mentioned above beats every time we shoot....i am happy to shoot my average +/-; his is better than mine. Nothing to do with the guns.
Pete

No, a good gun does not do the shooting for you, however it's nice to have a gun that cooperates with you.
I have shot a Model 12 and it belongs right up there with Remington 1100's on the guns-that-cooperate-with-the-shooter list.

darkgael · December 7, 2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

owever it's nice to have a gun that cooperates with you.

Well said. I got outshot at Trap this morning by a young fellow with an Ithaca 37. We both did better than the rest of the squad who were shooting quite nice O/U Trap guns.

Pete

Chaz88 · December 7, 2014, 05:04 PM

Quote:

it's nice to have a gun that cooperates with you.

I do not think I am a snob about it. I have dedicated trap guns (used). Would like to have new trap combo some day but for the price I generally end up buying several other guns.

Having said that, when I am working with the college trap kids and they show up with coach guns and home defense guns I do encourage them to switch to one of the club 1100's or to try one of mine that is more suitable for preparing for competition. As the other poster said "it's nice to have a gun that cooperates with you."

Dreaming100Straight · December 7, 2014, 08:44 PM

Chaz post reminds me of the first shotgun lesson I took, which was a skeet class. While regularly given at a club with a reputation for snobbery, it sure wasn't promoted for snobs but via more of a working man's gun site (CalGuns). As for cost, it was a regular group class that ran $20 per student for a lesson that lasted 3 to 4 hours.

Anyway, I showed up with my Remington 870 Express and the instructor, a one time national senior champion, gives me his $12,000 Beretta (no beater gun by any means) to use.

FITASC · December 7, 2014, 09:25 PM

Did you like that Beretta?
I am lucky to also shoot with folks who have some VERY nice guns. They generously offer others to shoot them. You can tell the difference in the balance, the trigger, etc. it isn't always about bling, but I did see a $110,000 K-80 that had the Apollo moon landing engraved on all three sides. Amazing gun, but mechanically the same as their $12K base model.
Maybe if I hit the lotto, but I would prefer to get a gun that was fitted to me before I spent that much on engraving.

November 21, 2014, 11:34 PM	#76
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Few years ago I saw a guy shooting sporting clays locally with a Holland & Holland. He was driving a Bentley Continental. Toss up which cost him more. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 22, 2014, 06:23 AM	#77
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	I don't know but I would definitely prefer the Holland and Holland. __________________ What could have happened... did.

November 22, 2014, 09:06 AM	#78
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Fifty years from now, that Holland and Holland will still be a Holland and Holland shotgun. The money used to buy a Holland and Holland today might buy you a new economy car fifty years from now. Or at least that's how I rationalize buying fine guns. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

November 25, 2014, 08:05 AM	#80
riflemen Junior member Join Date: November 18, 2014 Posts: 259	I have some nice investment grade shotguns, I DO NOT bring them to trap, skeet, sporting clay shoots, lol... I bring my A400 Xcel or beretta 686 onyx or both, Them both cost under $4000 new, I also have a citori that I will sometimes bring, but I have gotten so good with the 686 I don't use the browning as much... I have a buddy that can afford any shotgun he wants and he uses a CZ redhead target, I was with him the day he bought it for $1000 plus tax brand new, he has won more competitions with that thing no matter what the next guy spent on his gun, he has beat me more times than I can count and we have swapped guns, he still beats me with my gun... So its not the gun I can assure you, if you can afford it and it swings well for you, shoot it. If there is a snob on the field making you uncomfortable, ask him to see his fancy gun {he will be more than glad to show it off} and drop it "by accident" as you hand it back to him, lol just kidding, that could get you shot... I have noticed certain fields bring certain types of people. I don't care what the others think, I pay my dues, I am a member, I can shoot what I want. I find that more of an issue than what gun you shoot is- what some of these snobs have labelled "range etiquette", this used to just be a list of common sense rules that were more safety minded than anything else. Now they have morphed into something different- "don't drop your shells on the ground", "don't bend over to pick up shells", ect ect ect.. I wear a pouch vest because I am lazy and don't want to bend over to pick up shells everytime, but if someone else wants to bend over and pick out of a box, that doesn't bother me, at a range meeting we had a few guys said "its distracting" a friend of mine replied "if you are distracted by me bending over maybe I am in the wrong club", we thought it was funny, the snobs did NOT. Also with the letting your shells drop issue, if you pick them up who cares where they land when you are shooting, I am an offender of this, I let them drop at my feet and then when I am done, I pick them all up and put them in my vest, these guys drop them in their hands, the bending over thing really is not popular wit the gun snobs for some reason... Last edited by riflemen; November 25, 2014 at 08:18 AM.

December 1, 2014, 11:03 PM	#83
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I'm just wondering, if you do show up at the trap/skeet range with a new Krieghoff or something similar, is it considered gauche to leave the price tag hanging from it Minnie Pearl style? __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

November 25, 2014, 04:17 PM	#81
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Bending over can delay play, if the fields are busy and other squads are line up and ready to go. I say if a registered shoot is not on and the field isn't backed up pick them up. I do if the next squad isn't ready to go and since I don't delay anyone no one has said a hoot.

November 29, 2014, 04:10 PM	#82
Because 'Merica Member Join Date: July 4, 2014 Posts: 66	shot in a fund raiser tournament with like 250+ shooters. Was using a a Benelli Nova. Yes i was snickered at when everyone was unloading their expensive trap guns and O/U's. But i had been practicing for two weeks and i was really sharp with that benelli. Id say i won half of my rounds of trap.

December 2, 2014, 02:21 AM	#84
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Perfect, yup leave that price tag on there __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

December 2, 2014, 06:09 AM	#85
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	I have a friend with a $100,000+ Kreighoff (he told me when I asked but I forget the exact figure) and he shoots it quite well in all 4 gauges. He also has Remington 3200, a Perazzi, another K gun, an older Win 101, and a whole bunch of others. One of the great O/U lovers of all time, and was on two state teams for years. He is way more of a clay shooter than I have been for 35 years now. He shoots an 11-87 I sold him for waterfowl, but before the season he will take it to the range for a little practice. I love it when someone tells him he really should get an O/U to shoot clays with just before he rips off a 100 straight with the 11-87. As you get older, you find you are less concerned with 'image'. __________________ What could have happened... did.

December 2, 2014, 07:15 AM	#87
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	You would have to buy that gun its own seat on an airplane if you flew to an event, like Yo Yo Ma's cello. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

December 2, 2014, 06:35 PM	#89
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	I'm with you on gauche. Who is Tommy Hilfiger and why in the hell would I want to wear his shirt? Wife's hair dryer will do it. My buddy has one of four I think he said Krieghoff Royal Crown 4 gauge sets. The gold is different than that one. It has flown in the bay of a C-130 and C-141 many times. He's ex-Air Force. __________________ What could have happened... did.

December 3, 2014, 06:35 PM	#90
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Really enjoyed reading this thread. I wonder what they would think of me unzipping my M12 winchester that looks like it tumbled down a mountain right into a lake. If I do my part it can't miss. We throw a lot of clay in my back pasture. Dad will occasionally bring his LC smith. Long range gun. Stupid fun to shoot. Extremely accurate. Will break them at ridiculous yardage. You run into "snobs" in just about any human activity. I just chuckle at them.

December 4, 2014, 05:10 PM	#93
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	What is the point of this thread other than to beat the class envy horse to death?

December 7, 2014, 08:44 PM	#99
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Chaz post reminds me of the first shotgun lesson I took, which was a skeet class. While regularly given at a club with a reputation for snobbery, it sure wasn't promoted for snobs but via more of a working man's gun site (CalGuns). As for cost, it was a regular group class that ran $20 per student for a lesson that lasted 3 to 4 hours. Anyway, I showed up with my Remington 870 Express and the instructor, a one time national senior champion, gives me his $12,000 Beretta (no beater gun by any means) to use.

December 7, 2014, 09:25 PM	#100
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Did you like that Beretta? I am lucky to also shoot with folks who have some VERY nice guns. They generously offer others to shoot them. You can tell the difference in the balance, the trigger, etc. it isn't always about bling, but I did see a $110,000 K-80 that had the Apollo moon landing engraved on all three sides. Amazing gun, but mechanically the same as their $12K base model. Maybe if I hit the lotto, but I would prefer to get a gun that was fitted to me before I spent that much on engraving.