Bird shot for home defense!!!

[hogdogs]

Unless you went and wronged a gang of marauding 1%er bikers you are safe from them coming in gunning for you. Lets see here... 3-10 open piped harleys blasting down the subdivision street, screeching to a halt outside "joe banker's" home and storm troopin' in the front door, guns a blazing... Heck even Hollywood is short on this scenario lately!
Brent

[Rampant_Colt]

Originally Posted by hotdogs

Unless you went and wronged a gang of marauding 1%er bikers you are safe from them coming in gunning for you. Lets see here... 3-10 open piped harleys blasting down the subdivision street, screeching to a halt outside "joe banker's" home and storm troopin' in the front door, guns a blazing... Heck even Hollywood is short on this scenario lately!
Brent

I know it's an amusing analogy, but just pretend you inadvertently cut-off a group of Hell's Angels a block away from home, [LoL ] and they decide to follow you home

They're tweaked on meth and are drunk; police are far away and all you have access to is your birdshot-loaded shotgun - what next? Dial 911 and pray? LoL

[Super-Dave]

Head shots with bird shot as they come through the door would probably work.

I would use my 3" 15 pellet 00buck as they come down my hallway. This is what I currently have loaded. 8 shots of this and then bayonet charge whoever is remaining.

If it did not incapacitate them, all 8 shots of magnum in a pitch dark hall way followed by a bayonet charge should scare the hell out of drunk meth headed bikers.

.

[Creature]

And so it quickly degenerates into a shtf thread...

[Rampant_Colt]

Originally Posted by Super-Dave

head shots as they come through the door

Hey everybody, it's world speed shooting champion, Todd Jarrett !!


i'm surprised no one has suggested Dragon's Breath or Bolo buckshot yet

[RsqVet]

Gosh I hope the mods reel this BS in, this is degradating into the same kind of zombie crap take on a riot crowd BS that the tactics forum USED to be filled with.

As to the subject of this thread, well it's all summed up in super dave's statement that it "could" stop a perp.

Could.. most of us do not stake our lives on that.

Let alone a "head shot"

I'm not going to debate that what you suggest COULD work, heck a rock COULD work,

Cary what you want in your gun and aim / use whatever tactics you want but don't look to others for confirmation of your poor choices or faulty tactics.

Having a BG in hour house who needs to be neutralized is a crud situation and your number one priority is stopping the threat, to be most effective at that go with the normal configurations and loadings of whatever weapon you chose to use.

[Rampant_Colt]

Well said, RsqVet!

[Super-Dave]

All I am arguing is that if all you had was bird shot, or if you are very worried about penetration issues that bird shot to the head at close range is acceptable for personal protection.


Does anyone here honestly believe that if they were shot in the face at less than 10 yards with birdshot that they would be able to attack the man who shot them?
.

[Aqeous]

"I have some relatives that are such back woods rednecks that they think the civil war is not over yet. Sometimes I feel like I need to hire a translator to go with me when I go to visit them."

LOL!!


Honesty birdshot to the face (given optimum range and spread) with heavier birdshot will turn the face of an aggressor in a HD event into "domino's Pizza" (if you catch my drift) :barf:. So sure.


I will be a little unconventional here to convey my point (and the point of many here). I happen to really enjoy playing call of duty 4 on the Xbox 360. Why am I mentioning this . . . because the majority of us (even many of us hunters (myself included) have never tried firing at a moving target. It's always been stationary targets, dear ex.). I suggest (superdave ) that you rent the game, set it to veteran, and make only headshots .

It may seem ridiculous to some because its just a video game. But god willing it will be as close as many of us will ever come to an actual showdown of guns and tactics VS someone who is dead set on doing us harm.

If you take my advise, you might find that even in a video game environment, when you are calm, (sober ) and thinking rationally (as oppose to half asleep with the adrenaline shakes) it is much harder then you might imagine in your mind. AND THATS JUST A VIDEO GAME! Times that by 100 and you'll get the idea.


There is a reason why everyone in the world shoots for center mass . . . its because killing BG's can be really hard work.

I'd say birdshot to the head if you are planning on being REALLY lucky. But if the BG is already in your house he ALREADY has the upper hand . . . so on second thought, you better plan on being double lucky.

[RsqVet]

Dave --

And all that we are stating to you is no, not acceptable, it might work, it might not, but do as you wish it is your funeral if it does not.

Nowhere am I saying buck is a sure thing, but it is MORE of a sure thing that birdshot.

As to your question, NO I could not attack a man after taking birshot to the face, however I'm not a 300 pound gremlin high on meth and intent on hommicide. I'm quite sure one could find such people who could / would still do considerable mayhem despite birdshot to the face. There are more than one account of such things... tweakers with femur fractures that would have you or I bent over in pain on the floor, yet they are still running and fighting mutiple cops.

What you fail to grasp is that utilization of deadly force to stop another human form doing you harm is an extream situation.

If you pull the trigger it is because you are out of options and you are protecting your life by hoping the physical force you are exerting by virtue of a firearm stops the BG before he does harm / further harm to you.

The worst case scnario in all of this is a dedicated and or high attacker who requires disruption of their CNS or cardio-vascular system and subsequent bleeding out to be stopped.

Bird shot stinks at this period so I'd never chose to use it.

There are any number of less than worst case instances where the BG craps his BVD's at the rack of the pump, or the sight of the gun or with a minor wound, and somone is spared life and limb without having to fire a shot or a very minor wounding shot; HOWEVER we arm ourselves for the worst case scenario, otherwise why have a gun, or a loaded gun or whatever.

BTW even cops, the military or whoever whom carry back, slugs or .223 or whatever, you know what they train to do? Shoot till the threat is stopped... would not be the first time someone took more than one shot from X to be stopped, even if X is accepted as a very GOOD choice for stopping people.

To construct your self defense plan around the supposition that a given thing will be "enough", whatever that thing is, but esp if it's somethign that is proven to be less than adequate much of the time, is the heigh of folly and sure to induce more poor decesions that may end with you standing there wondering why your sure thing did not work while you get killed.

Never assume anything will be enough, train with proven techniques and hope / pray if you are so inclined.

[bushidomosquito]

Pull the shot cups out of turkey loads and wrap electrical tape around the petals. Instant frangible shotgun slug!

[Bill DeShivs]

A "worst case scenario" would be that a bull elephant escapes from the zoo and attacks you in your living room.
Damned few here are cops who willingly put themselves in harm's way, or are soldiers at war. Whether you choose to believe it or not-most guns even a .22 handgun will serve nicely for home defense, if you can use it. I certainly recommend something bigger, but how many of you REALLY expect a stoned 300 lb. biker to attack your home? Or an elephant?
Most people don't even have a 3 day supply of food and water, a full tank of gas, and basic medical supplies on hand- but are prepared for all-out war??
Bill

[Rampant_Colt]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Most people don't even have a 3 day supply of food and water, a full tank of gas, and basic medical supplies on hand- but are prepared for all-out war??
Bill

A couple of boxes of buckshot is all-out-war or shtf? Please..

Point being that birdshot is ineffective in most situations. How many bad guys will hold still long enough to give you a clear head shot? Especially someone tweaked on speed or meth... Are you going to shoot a running man even though your main concern is overpenetration? Lots of contradictions and "what ifs" on part of the birdshot users posting here.

buckshot > birdshot

[chow chow]

Oh yeah , birdshots are good to blind the attacker. The shock effect is deadly. But mine is loaded with Winchester SUper X 00 Bucks, it has to be bec I want a dead intruder , not one still capable of returning fire.

[rgillis]

It's very simple to remember - birdshot for birdies; buckshot for bad guys.

Sound advice!

[RsqVet]

Bill --

I'm not prepared for all out war, in fact if you want to know I have about 14 or 16 buck or slug loads either in the gun at home or kicking around the house. Next time I go to the range I'll shoot that up and buy another 4 or 5 boxes. And what is in my gun is in my gun, I don't have 2 pounds of exta ammo hanging off it.

I also routinly carry a 5 shot 357 with no reload or a 1911 with no extra mag...

Others would cringe that I don't carry a reload or more ammo BUT I'm ok with that as I have read the stats and am OK with my choice.

At the same time I'm not out arguing with folks who would claim I should carry a re-load. It's my choice and I accept the potential failings, I'm not going to argue that there might not be trouble that 5 of 357 could not deal with, I'm simply OK with the comprimises that I have made and I don't look to the internet for other's opinions or validation that my plan is sure fire... I know it is not... little in life is.

If I ever found myself having to use any gun I go in with eyes wide open knowing that things are bad and I have to use my training and skill to get out of the hot water, even if I have a little or a lot to work with..... mindsets other than this can get you kiled.

As to this thread I seriously object of people who want to argue that (insert poor defense choice here) is great, a sure thing, no problem and loudly proclaim it on the internet. If that is what you want to use fine, but it's serious fallicy to think that much of anything is a "sure thing" let alone things that are suboptimal.

As to who I think is going to break into my house... well I don't GET to make that choice, and no one has statistics on how many instances like this end with NOT having to shoot... but in all of these cases obviously a decent replica would have been sufficient.. shall I drop one in the mail to you and you can send whatever you use to my FFL?

I'm not going to proclaim any ONE self defense ammo / round / gun / idea is the end all / be all but pick from what is accepted / proven for such use, not a hope based on conjectture.

[Super-Dave]

I have told you people already that what I have in my HD shotgun is 7 rounds of 3" 15 pellet 00 buck with a bayonet already mouted ready to go.

All I am trying to say is that bird shot to the face at less than 10 yards will work for self defense.

Should people use buck shot for home defense, absolutely!!

If all you had was bird shot are you doomed to be gang raped by a bunch of drunk bikers strung out on meth? No, I don't think so.


If a crack head wearing body armor and a helmet burst into my home, I would rather take a head shot with bird shot than a torso shot with buck shot!!!

[rem870hunter]

buckshot for HD and PD. #1 or 0 2.75" or 3". but if all i had was birdshot BB is what i would use. but i have buckshot in and on the shotgun. locked in the cabinet pretty much ready to go. empty chamber of course. the bayonet and lug is looking like a next investment for me. FIX BAYONETS.

[mikenbarb]

Wow, This thread sounds soooooo familiar and #4 magnum birdshot WILL work for up close HD situations in a pinch but try to rely on something bigger.

[tplumeri]

the head has been a secondary target -- first target is center of the chest

add to that, and Ive said this before, there's something about shooting someone in the face that goes against most peoples way of thinking.
Now, Lots of folks say they would in one situation or another, but Its hard enough to shoot someone in the torso (where the immediate effects arent' so obvious).
JMHO
tom

[john1911]

I can't believe this line of thinking happens as often as it does.

Yes, a sober, sane person of at least average intelligence is going to be stopped by a load of birdshot to the face. The problem lies in the fact that you probably never be forced to shoot a sober, sane person of at least average intelligence.


If ever forced to shoot in self defense, the shootee will more than likely be drunk/drugged, mentally unstable, less than average intelligence or some combination of all three. Someone in this condition may not be so easily deterred.

I spent quite a few of my younger years around these types of people (I may have even fit that description once upon a time ). I've seen injuries that would cause most people to pass out not slow these guys down a bit. Injuries, that looking back at them now, make me weak-kneed. Of course, they would eventually seek treatment, once they sobered up or calmed down.

My point is that I wouldn't want to get shot in the face with birdshot. Assuming most people posting here are sober, sane and of least average intelligence ( I know that's a lot of assuming ) they wouldn't want a face full of birdshot. I will not assume the guy kicking in my door at 0 dark thirty will feel the same way.

[Double Naught Spy]

Birdshot is for birds...

Yeah, okay, and buck shot is for bucks. I don't see any packages marked "human shot."

I also do not believe there is a man on earth no matter how big he is biker or non biker that could get up and attack me after being shot with bird shot to the face at less than 10 yards.

I think it is so cool you are that confident that you will get a face shot. However, if you don't blind the guy and don't get cranial penetration with damage to the brain, then you just have a non-vital shot. The face can suffer a tremendous amount of damage without being incapacitating, expecially a shot to the side of the face. You see, the vast majority of the face is below the brain and from the side, the non-vital face makes up a large portion of the side profile.

If it did not incapacitate them, all 8 shots of magnum in a pitch dark hall way followed by a bayonet charge should scare the hell out of drunk meth headed bikers.

You seem to think that stoned folks necessarily retain normal responses to stimuli such as being frightened. That is awfully naive.

[Boris Bush]

Birdshot is a less than lethal option from what I have been trained.

If I have a woodchuck problem why would I knowingly shoot them with a round I know will not kill it? So it can come back and eat more of the crops and pester me? May as well get an airsoft toy..........

I was brought up if you shoot an animal you shoot it to kill it. When I got older my pappy trained me if you need to shoot someone, you shoot them to eliminate them. Get it?

Wack someone 3 times with BIRDshot and you just might have a heck of a time explaining to the judge why the heck you disfigured the plaintiff in such a manner..........

If you plan on shooting someone and not killing them then use a paintballgun or airsoft, it makes just as much sense to me.........

[xm21]

Super Dave,let us say you were enjoying some chocolate pie with your wife or girlfriend.Your shotgun was beside you,you had some 00 buck and some 6 shot shells there also.Rosie O Donnell breaks down your door in a see through nightie and comes at you screaming "your woman and your pie are gonna be mine".What shells will you load as the beast comes waddling at you,what would you think would stop the threat to your woman and pie?


P.S. She also has a very large pistol she has stolen from her bodyguard she is brandishing, so trying to handle the situation mano y mano and subduing her to the ground until her handlers arrive won't work.You must resort to the gravest extreme.I would not be loading birdshot,would you?

[Sgt.Fathead]

*sigh* This isn't as bad as some posts we used to see, like what to do when the zombies come and the like. Or, is a katana a good home defense weapon? I liked that one!

We all know what we know, right? Here's what I know:

1) If it's all you've got to hand, use a bat, a bottle, a chair, a kitchen knife, a shotgun loaded with #4 bird shot and fight for your life! A weapon at hand beats a weapon not available any day.

2) Bird shot is great stuff, cheap and inexpensive (compared to an equal quantity of 00 buck or slugs) for practice, practice, practice.

3) No one wants to get shot with anything, be it bird shot or a .22, but sometimes, folk breaking into your house are cranked up on adrenalin, crystal meth, booze, and such.

4) 00, 000 Buck and slugs are for putting down large animals. A home intruder is a large animal. I'm not staking my life or the lives of my loved ones on bird shot.

My last chance HD shotgun is an eight shot Rem 870 Express Synthetic with 00, 000 and managed recoil Buckhammer slugs in it. There's a Stoeger Coach gun near the door with two loads of 00 in it. We each have our respective .357 wheel guns, too. Stopping power!

Good luck!