How would YOU load your shotgun for Home Defense?

[roy reali]

Some of you keep 50 rounds at the ready for your shotgun? Where on Earth do you live? Are you located near some sort of Ninja factory? If I lived somewhere that required fifty shotshells to feel safe I would seriously consider moving.

[seeker_two]

Some of you keep 50 rounds at the ready for your shotgun? Where on Earth do you live?

Unfortunately, I live in a place where Trouble doesn't call ahead to tell me just how much ammo I'll need to bring to handle him....

Better to have too much than not enough....

[sholling]

Some of you keep 50 rounds at the ready for your shotgun? Where on Earth do you live?

In my less financially secure youth I lived where I could afford to live. Often times that meant the fringe of gang territory. Having been in the embarrassing situation of facing down a couple of intruders with an empty bolt action Mauser and not round one in the house I never want to experience that 'empty' feeling again. So yes I keep several loaded magazines in the nightstand for my pillow pistol, and one bandoleer for the 12ga plus a couple of loaded magazines for the Mini-14 in the safe.

These days I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, but when it takes so little money and effort to have a quick reload handy then why not. Of course unlike some members I refrain from sitting in my family room with a 12ga lovingly cradled in my lap and bandoleers criss crossing my chest like Pancho Villa.

[roy reali]

Some of you should consider building a moat around your house. Make it wide and deep and stock it with some deadly creatures.

[Old John]

By all means.............Before you go to bed tonight, if you have not read the Penetration Tests for Shotgun rounds, Go to Box o' Truth and Read them.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

They have information on Wall Penetration, for Shotguns, Hand guns, & Rifles.
They tell you what kind of Penetration you can expect from "Birdshot" in
your apartment. What kind of Penetration can you expect from #4, #1, or
00 Bucksahot?
Read it Please.
Thanks.

[sholling]

Thanks Old_John! Very interesting reading. I will think about switching to 00.

[Mike Irwin]

How would I load it?

The same way I'm loading it right now -- 6 rounds of No. 4 buckshot and 5 rounds of 00 buck in a stock cuff.

[SpectreBlofeld]

By all means.............Before you go to bed tonight, if you have not read the Penetration Tests for Shotgun rounds, Go to Box o' Truth and Read them.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

They have information on Wall Penetration, for Shotguns, Hand guns, & Rifles.
They tell you what kind of Penetration you can expect from "Birdshot" in
your apartment. What kind of Penetration can you expect from #4, #1, or
00 Bucksahot?
Read it Please.

One of my favorite gun-related sites.

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

Based on this, I would still rather use birdshot in my apartment. I would actually go so far as to say that I would rather have the bad guy not succomb to my shot - and survive to kill me - than me kill or even injure one of the young children that live on the other side of the wall with buck or a slug.

I live alone, however. Those with children of their own to protect from the BG may see things differently. I'm not going to let children die by my hand to protect myself or my property.

In any case, at the close range one would encounter in an apartment situation, a birdshot load behaves pretty much like a slug. That's how those powdered-lead shells used for lock busting work. I doubt a BG being shot in the chest with a shotgun at a couple of feet would notice the difference.

That said, I will be moving in the near future, and when I do, it's back to buckshot.

[rantingredneck]

at the close range one would encounter in an apartment situation, a birdshot load behaves pretty much like a slug. That's how those powdered-lead shells used for lock busting work

That's an unfortunately widely held perception but slightly flawed. Those individual pellets will behave independent of one another once they transition from the world of external ballistics to terminal ballistics. Once they hit flesh each pellet will be on it's own in terms of penetration and energy transfer. Each pellet also lacks sufficient mass to penetrate deeply enough to reliably stop a human attacker.

Those breeching rounds work against wood and metal at contact distance, but humans aren't made of wood or metal. We don't split and splinter when we're hit. Our tissue is flexible and absorbs and dissipates the impact of a projectile. Thus the ballistic jello tests that show horrendously shallow penetration from birdshot loads.

That being said, if I lived in an apartment alone I would be inclined to agree with your circumstances. Please don't have any illusions, however that the birdshot in your shotgun will behave like a slug at apartment distances. It really won't.

[workinwifdakids]

I'm loaded with 8 rounds of 12 gauge 3" magnum 15 pellet 00-buckshot, and the last round is a 3" magnum slug.

I have a bandolier with 20 rounds of 2 3/4" 00-buck, and 5 rounds of 2 3/4" slugs.

[roy reali]

Buckshot won't work against human targets. Buckshot is for shooting male deer, hence the name "buck". Now if the intruder is wearing a set of antlers then the ammo might get confused and actually cause harm.

Remember, birdshot is for feathered creatures. Buckshot is for male deer. If you plan on using a shotgun for home defense you'll have to find manshot.

[SpectreBlofeld]

That being said, if I lived in an apartment alone I would be inclined to agree with your circumstances. Please don't have any illusions, however that the birdshot in your shotgun will behave like a slug at apartment distances. It really won't.

I understand and agree. I wouldn't feel underpowered, however, at distances under a few paces. And in that situation, I wouldn't stop at one round...

Remember, birdshot is for feathered creatures. Buckshot is for male deer. If you plan on using a shotgun for home defense you'll have to find manshot.

Haha!

Marketing opportunity...

NEW! Remington ManShot (tm)

[overkill556x45]

A buddy and I are speculating the ballistics of Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle caps in 12ga. Could give the cops something to laugh about while they scrape what's left of BG off the wall.

In reality, it's HP slug, followed by 4 00' buck 9-ball. If that doesn't do it, I've got my G17 with 33rd mag full of JHP's. Gotta be ready for zombies at a moment's notice

[roy reali]

ManShot wouldn't work if the intruder was a she. In that situation you would need FemShot. To be safe, you would have to load your shotgun with both loads and alternate them. Now if Rosie broke into your home to do you harm you would need some other kind of load, I mean technicaly she is a female, but in a practical sense she ain't.

I suppose you then could use a side-by-side with two triggers. You would load one barrel with ManShot and the other with Femshot. Then you pull both triggers at the same time. That might work.

[SpectreBlofeld]

LOL!

Call it He-Shot and She-Shot.

I can see it now. Rangemaster sees a female-shaped cardboard target reduced to confetti by a single round from a shooter's shotgun. He goes up to the man and his wife to ask them what they were shooting:

rangemaster: What load was that?
man: She-shot!
rangemaster: No, I was pretty sure you were shooting. What was that?
man: She-shot!
rangemaster: Sigh... ok. Miss, what did you shoot?
woman: I didn't shoot anything! He was shooting!

etc

[sholling]

Those individual pellets will behave independent of one another once they transition from the world of external ballistics to terminal ballistics. Once they hit flesh each pellet will be on it's own in terms of penetration and energy transfer. Each pellet also lacks sufficient mass to penetrate deeply enough to reliably stop a human attacker.

I'll bet that the divot that it causes hurts like heck. I'm still rethinking my load out. If I were in an apartment it would be no question bird shot because I'm not taking a chance of killing a kid, but after viewing the tests I think that there are enough walls and fences between me and the neighbors that they would be pretty safe from anything but a clean miss combined with horrible luck. Anyway I'm still thinking on this one.

[GATMOG]

But what would the courts say?

"The defendent purchased ammunition strictly for the purpose of hunting BIPEDAL GAME!!! "

[roy reali]

You know that some shotgun shell boxes have pictures of the intended target on them. You could cut out a picture of a BG and tape it to the shotshell box. Now the shells will be fooled into thinking that they are designed for human targets.

When I was living in California my FFL transfer dealer also worked for the state's crime lab. He did ballistic testing for crime scenes. He told fascinating stories. He would often go to the range to do target testing to determine range and angles of shootings. This is like CSI stuff.

One time he told about an investigation he was doing. A thirteen year old was shot dead. He determined that the one fatal shot came from about seven feet away. It was a 12 gauge round of pheasant load. The kid was killed instantly. The blast hit him in the upper chest. There was not much left there. I guess in this instance the shotshells were defective. They were designed for large, colorful birds. They hit a kid and killed him. Thank God no one used them on birds. They may not have worked.

[rantingredneck]

One time he told about an investigation he was doing. A thirteen year old was shot dead. He determined that the one fatal shot came from about seven feet away. It was a 12 gauge round of pheasant load. The kid was killed instantly. The blast hit him in the upper chest. There was not much left there. I guess in this instance the shotshells were defective. They were designed for large, colorful birds. They hit a kid and killed him. Thank God no one used them on birds. They may not have worked.

A) There's always "he told" story to back up just about anything
B) The average 13 year old is built very different from the average 200lb male recidivist violent offender. Y'know the one who packed on 20 lbs of muscle the last time he was inside for burglary, assault, and armed robbery?
C) N=1?
D) Pheasant load = high brass/payload, a bit different from the 7 1/2's and 8's most people think of as "birdshot"

It is very possible that a human attacker will stop from one round of birdshot, It is also very possible that they won't. It is very probable that IF I'm shooting at said attacker with my shotgun that he's also got the means and opportunity to be shooting back at me and what's behind me (wife and 2 kids). All this adds up to 100% chance of my shotgun being loaded with something bigger than #6's. The fewer rounds he gets off before stopping the less holes me and mine will be likely to have in us.

As I said above, if I were single and an apartment dweller, I would look at the situation a bit differently. As it is..........

[Mad Martigan]

I'm loaded with 2 rounds of 3in 000 Buck. I guess I better pick up my bandolier this weekend so I wont have to carry the box of shells around.

[roy reali]

Now I understand why some folks feel the need to have fifty shotgun rounds at the ready for home defense.

[okiewita40]

In the apartment the OP is in I think the birdshot is a good idea. 00 Buck is a good choice also. Now if you want to get real serious about stopping power look into the Dixie slug Tri-ball II. A 3" Magnum shell containing 3 .600 hardened balls scooting at 1200 fps. Each weighing in at 315grains. Now that shold take care of any BG given proper shot placement.

If you want for those with the 3 1/2" chambers You can try the Tri-ball III.

[Bill DeShivs]

I have recounted this story many times:
Knew both parties involved in this shooting- BG shot in right chest at 6-8 feet with Rem. 1100 12 ga. loaded with #8 shot. Operating room personnel removed plastic wadding from his spine. Shot took out a large part of his right lung. He "should" have died. Buckshot would not have done any more damage.
BG was coked up, and ran 35 yards before he dropped from blood loss. There was a hospital within 1/4 mile. He survived.
Point: #8 shot had adequate penetration at close range. BG was damned lucky.

[45Marlin carbine]

I keep my double barrel 12 ga. magnum propped in near corner by bed. right barrel (improved cylinder choke) loaded with #6, left cylinder (modified choke) loaded with 3" 000. and bandolier of shells hanging on wall by my Marlin Camp .45, Makarov velcro-strapped to bed post.
I live way too far off pavement to rely on 911.
I have had to 'bear arms' at my home in the past BTW.
when I come across a better set-up I will employ it.

[SpectreBlofeld]

Ah, the ol' double barrel. When used in conjunction with chainsaw, it's an effective stopper of demons, ghouls, and what ails ya.

Just be sure to pick up some Remington 00 ZombieShot (tm)