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Old May 24, 2010, 01:21 PM   #1
LordTio3
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Glocks vs Cast Bullets: Hype = Truth?

After years, just starting out handloading. My piece that gets the most action is my Glock 19 in 9mm. I burn though ammo in this dog and I have previously used handloads with cast lead bullets. They functioned fine, the only problem was that the powder charge seemed like it was mixed with Ink, Tar, and Hate. Seriously. I felt like W.B. Hickok shooting cap and ball. The dirtiest loads I've used by far... but they functioned well and were quite accurate at the distance they were used.

I've also heard quite a bit of hype over the years regarding the use of cast bullets in Glocks implying that the combination is quite problematic due to the rifling in the barrel: hexagonal being the problem? I'm not quite sure. I'm toying with the idea of using some cast bullets of my own but thought I would check with you fine gentlemen first before taking an unnecessary risk or conforming to rants of the nay-sayers. Does the hype have merrit or is it boo-hockey?

Thoughts?
Thanks fellas,
~LT
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Last edited by Shane Tuttle; May 25, 2010 at 10:09 PM.
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Old May 24, 2010, 01:36 PM   #2
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There are several makers who use hexagonal rifling in their barrels and they seem to agree on not using cast lead bullets to minimize lead fouling. Whether it is lawyer-speak against using reloaded ammunition in the first place or not, others will be sure to chime in. This does seem to get brought up about every three weeks or so.....
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Old May 24, 2010, 01:45 PM   #3
vladan
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Edited ... on second thought I have no intention to get sucked into another lead-in-glock debate. Use search function

BTW, lead bullets will always smoke due to the lube vaporizing during the shot

Last edited by vladan; May 24, 2010 at 04:17 PM.
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Old May 24, 2010, 05:01 PM   #4
Locoweed
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I wouldn't shoot cast out of a Glock. Get a Lone Wolf replacement barrel with cut rifling and never worry about it again.
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Old May 24, 2010, 05:08 PM   #5
azredhawk44
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I shot lead from my Glock 21 when I first started shooting and reloading. Never had a problem.

But:
-I was a new shooter who was enthusiastic and meticulous with cleaning his wonderful fancy new space-age pistol
-I couldn't afford to shoot more than maybe 100 rounds per session, at most.

This resulted in no lead build-up.

A friend of mine shot his G23 for ~300 rounds per session with lead reloads. Blew the magazine out and fractured the frame. I don't know how well he did/didn't maintain the gun.

The safe call is to spend $100 and get a lone wolf barrel.
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Old May 24, 2010, 06:23 PM   #6
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No dog in the fight,just passing along this.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...duct_list&c=59
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Old May 24, 2010, 08:37 PM   #7
Sevens
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I guess I have a dog in the fight...

I've heard it for years, too. And I also see the topic pop up quite often but nobody ever really has much tangible evidence.

A couple of months ago, I decided I was going to try it in my Glock. I'm talking about a Glock 29, 10mm. I was shooting D&J hard cast 200gr LTC bullets pushed by 7.3 grains of Power Pistol. I started by putting 10 rounds down the barrel.

After those 10, I field stripped the pistol and examined the bore -- and saw nothing out of the ordinary. With a cotton mop on a short rod, I ran it dry down the bore to see if I could find any lead streaks after 10 shots. I found nothing that I could tell.

Put it back together and shot 20 more of these, then stripped the pistol again to get a good look at the bore. Nothing that I could see, and I didn't bother swabbing it this time.

I put 20 more rounds through it for a total of 50 and then put the pistol away. When I got home and cleaned the pistol, I couldn't find any traces of lead in the barrel.

What's more -- a polygonal barrel such as an OEM Glock barrel just doesn't have the lands and grooves of a traditional barrel. So I'll be damned if I have any idea where in the heck all this lead can build up -- there's no nooks & crannies to hold a bunch of lead as far as I can see.

A couple of weeks ago, I went ahead and put 100 rounds of the same 200gr cast bullet load through it in one session and still didn't find any lead in my barrel. It was dirty, as well it should be, but I know what hunks and streaks of lead look like, and my barrel didn't have them.

I know that I'm not ballsy enough to take my carry gun and put 400 rounds of cast lead through it just to tempt fate -- but 100 of them didn't give me a bit of hassle and their 15-yard accuracy was VERY good. (pretty good recoil, though!)

CONCLUSION: Hell if I know. I think I'm good to go ahead and put a hundred rounds through it, but then... this was the only bullet/load combo I've tried, so I suppose each different one should be tested.
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Old May 24, 2010, 10:35 PM   #8
chris in va
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I shoot some cast through my Kahr with poly barrel. After about 5 mags, I take the barrel out and notice quite a bit of lead buildup. I do the same with my CZ and Hipoint and really don't see much at all.

It doesn't stop me from shooting cast out of it, but I scrub the barrel a lot more often.

Quote:
So I'll be damned if I have any idea where in the heck all this lead can build up
It builds up in the 'valleys' of my rifling, or whatever the correct term is.
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Old May 25, 2010, 07:23 AM   #9
darkgael
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more

Here's an excerpt from Gary Kleift's review of the book "The Glock in Competition". It appeared in Dillon's "Blue Press" a few years ago.
Quote:
As far as I’m concerned, the chapter on Glock
blowups alone is worth the price of the book.
Blowups, also known as Kabooms, KB malfunctions,
etc., are analyzed in a
methodical, easy-to-comprehend
way. The short
answer is: Don’t double
charge, beware of out-ofbattery
firing and the resultant
need to use correctly
dimensioned ammunition,
and NEVER NEVER NEVER
use lead bullets in a factory
Glock barrel.
Mark Passamanck goes to
great detail into the design
of Glock polygonal rifling. A
design meant to optimize
accuracy with jacketed bullets;
the polygonal rifling
swages the bullet into essentially
an octagon shape.
Copper withstands this
swaging quite well, so that
even jacketed bullets with
inconsistencies perform very
well. However, lead tends to
tear away and is left as
deposits in the barrel; therefore,
firing as few as five
rounds of lead ammunition
will cause significant pressure
increases in polygonalrifled
barrels. Mark
describes a Glock 19 barrel that KB’d after firing
approximately 1500 rounds of commercial lead
ammo. Because of excessive lead residue, the bore
diameter at the front of the chamber was .323,”
causing pressures of more than 60,000 PSI. The
end result was a cracked frame and a split barrel.
Pete
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Old May 25, 2010, 10:28 AM   #10
AlaskaMike
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One observation here--a lot of people talk about "lead" and "cast" as if they are the same thing. People who don't know anything about cast bullets shoot very soft, pure lead swaged bullets thinking they're the same thing as the cast bullets that their buddy uses with great results. However, those soft pure lead bullets act very differently than harder cast bullets and tend to lead like crazy.

Another thing that we never see mentioned is bullet diameter and whether the shooter slugged his bore to determine the proper bullet diameter to use. If the bullets are just one or two thousandths too small for the barrel, then they'll lead like crazy no matter how hard they are.

Mike
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Old May 26, 2010, 09:47 AM   #11
cwok
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Buy a barrel per locoweed

I gotta go (in my Very humble opinion) with the previous comment by Locoweed.

If I shoot enough bullets from my Glock to spend time on this forum reading about Glocks - I can swing the $100 - $150 for a traditional barrel to use when shooting cast lead bullets.
But thats me.

I don't run tests to see "if it will really break" experiments with anything that:
* A. I've paid more than $30.00 for
OR
* B. That I'm holding in my bare hands
OR
* C. That my eyes are within three feet of.

.
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:28 AM   #12
Travis Two
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I have a Glock 23 and shoot cast bullets thru it with having developed clean accurate loads thru it following the advice I got here at www.pennbullets.com in the reloading tips section that deals with Glocks.
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:38 AM   #13
Sevens
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I'm a simple guy... not an engineer and I'm not a lab scientist.
I can understand the theory or idea that a hexagonally rifled barrel doesn't properly grip a cast lead bullet and it make skate down the bore and shed lead as it does this.

What I can't absorb or understand is WHERE is that lead going stick or hide? And I say this as a guy who looks down the bore of Glocks and HK's and sees just the smoothest, snag free bore ever devised, with no place for lead to sink in or attach or hide.

I've seen and removed plenty of lead from a conventional bore. It's easy to see where it sits and why it stays there.

I don't see where it can sit in a hexagonally rifled bore and I can't understand why it would stay there and 50 and then later 100 rounds through mine left no evidence that it ever was left there or could stay there from shot to shot.

I would appreciate some insight to help me learn more about this and any excerpts from the Glock owner's manual are as meaningless as the 98% of other firearms manufacturer's that tell me to never shoot handloaded ammunition through their firearms.
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Old May 26, 2010, 05:28 PM   #14
Cosmik de Bris
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Poly rifling is not new. It was used in pistols when there were only lead projectiles. The problem, if there is one, seems to be around the chamber design. It's funny, but on the H&K sites they say, you can shoot lead in a Glock but never in an H&K, and on the Glock sites they say the opposite. As long as you keep the velocity of the load down you will be fine. Lots of competition shooters use lead loads with no problem. You can't trust the manual either, they are written for litigious societies like the US.

All my humble opinion of course.
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