Newbie question: whatelse can I do to pull bullets? - Page 2

Goatwhiskers · May 28, 2015, 12:59 PM

To the OP, I'm gonna give you some advice that will at most save your or someone else's life, at the least keep you out of a lawsuit. DO NOT load for your buddies. You stated that you are a newby, and from what you wrote it's obvious you have much to learn. Nothing wrong with that, we all were beginners once, but you made mistakes in loading that could have brought on big trouble. Do a lot more study on the subject. After you gain confidence, if your buds want reloaded ammo, let them use your equipment while you mentor them. When you do the reloading ALL the liability falls on you. I have loaded for over 50 years and I DO NOT reload for others and DO NOT shoot other's reloads, even folks I know and trust. It only takes one mistake. GW

meandmyrifle · May 28, 2015, 10:14 PM

I found that I really learning a lot from this forum and folks here. Thank you all for the advices and warnings

I set the seating die to not crimp, from the pulled bullets, they don't seem to have the ring.

I seated a pulled bullet back to one of the casing from pulling, the inertia puller did the work of pulling it out easily.

There is something wrong with these loaded rounds. I just don't know what it is yet.

I tried to seat the bullet in a little bit more, that was done very easily, but after that, it doesn't really change the story for either inertia puller or the collet puller.

Thoughts?

mikld · May 29, 2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

I seated a pulled bullet back to one of the casing from pulling, the inertia puller did the work of pulling it out easily.

There is something wrong with these loaded rounds. I just don't know what it is yet

Did you seat a recently pulled bullet into one of the cases that you just pulled a bullet from? If so and it seemed "loose" you need to resize the case as apparently, the case neck stretched when the first bullet was seated (remove the decapping stem from the sizing die and try again).

What are the "symptoms" of the "bad" ammo? Are you talking about the "hot" reloads? Or is there other problems?

Salmoneye · May 29, 2015, 02:51 PM

I must be missing something...

The OP says that his load is too hot for a 165gr bullet when he used data for a 168gr bullet?

Was the load at the ragged edge to begin with?

meandmyrifle · May 29, 2015, 07:07 PM

Quote:

What are the "symptoms" of the "bad" ammo? Are you talking about the "hot" reloads? Or is there other problems?
Was the load at the ragged edge to begin with?

These rounds are hot, I fired 8 rounds or so (I realized that I fired about 6 rounds too many now). About 1/2 are 'fine' at the range, but they do have flat primers when I inspected them later. The other 1/2 had primer popped out. 2 rounds deformed the base to cause extraction difficulties.

The powder load I used was the top load on 165/168gr bullet page, H-414, 58.3gr (Hornady handbook). I moved up from 150gr and my rifle seems to group best at 2900fps. I did stepped up when I moved at 150gr and from 150gr to 165gr from smallest load. In then end, I chose 2900fps to work with the BDC scope because the lines are right on 100 yard steps.

When I switched to 168gr bullets, I didn't follow the stepping up guideline. Which is a lesson learned in hard way.

The majority of the brass I used was resized and cleaned sometime last year. When I process them, I took one day to de-primer, resize. A few days to trim. Then many days to clean with a sonic cleaner. Then I left them standing up and drying on a paper tower for a few days. Then I move them to a bag on my reloading table.

If I were to resize them again before reloading, then I need to apply lubricant again. Do I then need to wash and dry them before reloading?

condor bravo · May 29, 2015, 08:38 PM

There is probably no need to resize the unfired cases again, but if you insist go ahead and apply a little lube. Only re-tumble or clean again if cases not now polished to your satisfaction. But as they like to say, try not to become OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder behavior) over minor things like that. What you may discover is that the primer pockets from the fired cases are now loose and you wouldn't want to reload them again. Throw them out and of course discard the two cases with the damaged case heads. Seems like you violated the cardinal rule by starting at max and then intending to work down as needed. Maybe some lecturing is needed about doing it the other way around.

mikld · May 30, 2015, 11:27 AM

If the ammo in question is too "hot", pull 'em and save the components. If the reseated bullets are "easy" to insert, resize case (at least the neck) to restore neck tension (...the inertia puller did the work of pulling it out easily). K.I.S.S.

condor bravo · May 30, 2015, 12:06 PM

I think the OP's only partial success has been with his collett puller but apparently was not able to pull them all that way and he noted that the collett had to be so tight as to deform the bullets some. Of course by inserting a pulled bullet back into a case without sizing, you would expect the bullet to be easily pulled with the inertia puller. The OP might bring us up to date on any additional attempts to pull the bullets on the remaining rounds. We still think the inertia puller would do the job. To salvage 168 gr match bullets, you don't want them messed up from the collett. It's almost as though the bullets are over sized and that could contribute to the high pressure. If you have calipers, measure the diameter of a new bullet. Should be around .308.

meandmyrifle · May 31, 2015, 06:37 PM

I still unable to pull them all out. There are about 20 rounds that just don't want to come out.

Yes, I did try to push some back in a bit, pushing in seems to be no effort at all. But pulling out is still a whole different story.

I did measure some of the pulled out bullets, they are all .308" or .3075" in size. The pulled brass has the neck size (inside) of .306" to .3075". I'll definitely spend some time measure them all.

I also measured a few brasses that I prepared recently, the neck sizes are all around 0.307".

The ones that don't want to come out, still seemingly have the shank size of 0.308", measured just outside the neck.

Any pulled bullets can be pulled again with the inertia puller in 3 to 5 hits.

My local disposal regulation allows me to give them to the police for disposal. I'll keep them a bit longer to try if there is any new suggestion.

Mobuck · May 31, 2015, 08:48 PM

I've used an inertia puller to pull hundreds of bullets(including lots of sealed military). The secret is the speed of the "whack"-it's got to be snappy. I use a 20# block of wood as the striking surface to prevent breakage of the puller.

mikld · June 1, 2015, 11:51 AM

Just put them in a box labeled "To Be Dealt With Later", and put them on a shelf. Later you'll have more experience and more ideas on how to salvage the ammo. BTDT! Sometimes it's better to approach a problem with a fresh outlook (like my Garand Ammo that appeared to be too hot and wouldn't eject cleanly even though the loads were Garand starting loads, by the book. Suspect ammo into the box and six weeks later, after shooting some of my "proven" loads I discovered the problem, and fixed it. Saving 12 good 30-06 loads, and increasing my knowledge).

OOPS, almost forgot the solution to my 30-06 "problem"; loose gas cylinder lock screw that would leak just enough to cause a problem with low powered loads, but not my "normal" Garand loads...

meandmyrifle · June 1, 2015, 08:41 PM

Thanks for the information, everyone. I appreciate it all!

oley55 · June 2, 2015, 05:19 PM

deleted because I replied to wrong thread.....

bangerjim · June 3, 2015, 02:51 PM

I rely on 3 methods of pulling boolits:

1. RCBS collet puller......yes it DOES work with lead, unlike what the directions say

2. Inertia puller (when I cannot grab any areas with the collets.)

3. Vice grips and a big washer in the press. Grab the boolit with vice grips when it sticks tru the top. The washer protects the press threads!

Works everytime for me.

bnagerjim

meandmyrifle · June 8, 2015, 09:19 AM

After pulling some rounds I made last year with the inertia puller, and hired a 3 feet 4x4 as my stand banging base, I pulled out one "stuck" round after 100+ hits. The force applied would get normal rounds out in 3 to 8 hits.

The inertia puller seems to be more powerful when used properly. Or maybe there is another collet puller trick for me to discover.

Thanks everyone!

TimSr · June 11, 2015, 07:44 AM

The key with the hammer type inertia pullers is what you are hitting them against. They work well when whacked against something very solid and dense. Mine is uselss on top of my reloading bench table top, but works great when I whack it against the side of the table top. If I get a really stubborn one, I have a 3"x4" piece of metal a half inch thick, and place it on a concrete floor, and whack on it. (don't hit the concrete with the plastic hamer) The anvil part of a vice works great also. Most wood soaks up too much of the energy of the strike.

Quote:

I must be missing something...

The OP says that his load is too hot for a 165gr bullet when he used data for a 168gr bullet?

Was the load at the ragged edge to begin with?

I scratched my head on that one too.

May 29, 2015, 08:38 PM	#31
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	There is probably no need to resize the unfired cases again, but if you insist go ahead and apply a little lube. Only re-tumble or clean again if cases not now polished to your satisfaction. But as they like to say, try not to become OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder behavior) over minor things like that. What you may discover is that the primer pockets from the fired cases are now loose and you wouldn't want to reload them again. Throw them out and of course discard the two cases with the damaged case heads. Seems like you violated the cardinal rule by starting at max and then intending to work down as needed. Maybe some lecturing is needed about doing it the other way around. Last edited by condor bravo; May 30, 2015 at 09:58 AM.

May 30, 2015, 11:27 AM	#32
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	If the ammo in question is too "hot", pull 'em and save the components. If the reseated bullets are "easy" to insert, resize case (at least the neck) to restore neck tension (...the inertia puller did the work of pulling it out easily). K.I.S.S. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

May 30, 2015, 12:06 PM	#33
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	I think the OP's only partial success has been with his collett puller but apparently was not able to pull them all that way and he noted that the collett had to be so tight as to deform the bullets some. Of course by inserting a pulled bullet back into a case without sizing, you would expect the bullet to be easily pulled with the inertia puller. The OP might bring us up to date on any additional attempts to pull the bullets on the remaining rounds. We still think the inertia puller would do the job. To salvage 168 gr match bullets, you don't want them messed up from the collett. It's almost as though the bullets are over sized and that could contribute to the high pressure. If you have calipers, measure the diameter of a new bullet. Should be around .308. Last edited by condor bravo; May 30, 2015 at 04:56 PM.

June 1, 2015, 11:51 AM	#36
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Just put them in a box labeled "To Be Dealt With Later", and put them on a shelf. Later you'll have more experience and more ideas on how to salvage the ammo. BTDT! Sometimes it's better to approach a problem with a fresh outlook (like my Garand Ammo that appeared to be too hot and wouldn't eject cleanly even though the loads were Garand starting loads, by the book. Suspect ammo into the box and six weeks later, after shooting some of my "proven" loads I discovered the problem, and fixed it. Saving 12 good 30-06 loads, and increasing my knowledge). OOPS, almost forgot the solution to my 30-06 "problem"; loose gas cylinder lock screw that would leak just enough to cause a problem with low powered loads, but not my "normal" Garand loads... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

June 2, 2015, 05:19 PM	#38
oley55 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2013 Location: JAX, FL Posts: 377	deleted because I replied to wrong thread..... __________________ “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” ― Ronald Reagan

May 28, 2015, 12:59 PM	#26
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	To the OP, I'm gonna give you some advice that will at most save your or someone else's life, at the least keep you out of a lawsuit. DO NOT load for your buddies. You stated that you are a newby, and from what you wrote it's obvious you have much to learn. Nothing wrong with that, we all were beginners once, but you made mistakes in loading that could have brought on big trouble. Do a lot more study on the subject. After you gain confidence, if your buds want reloaded ammo, let them use your equipment while you mentor them. When you do the reloading ALL the liability falls on you. I have loaded for over 50 years and I DO NOT reload for others and DO NOT shoot other's reloads, even folks I know and trust. It only takes one mistake. GW

May 28, 2015, 10:14 PM	#27
meandmyrifle Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2015 Posts: 10	I found that I really learning a lot from this forum and folks here. Thank you all for the advices and warnings I set the seating die to not crimp, from the pulled bullets, they don't seem to have the ring. I seated a pulled bullet back to one of the casing from pulling, the inertia puller did the work of pulling it out easily. There is something wrong with these loaded rounds. I just don't know what it is yet. I tried to seat the bullet in a little bit more, that was done very easily, but after that, it doesn't really change the story for either inertia puller or the collet puller. Thoughts?

May 29, 2015, 02:51 PM	#29
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	I must be missing something... The OP says that his load is too hot for a 165gr bullet when he used data for a 168gr bullet? Was the load at the ragged edge to begin with?

May 31, 2015, 06:37 PM	#34
meandmyrifle Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2015 Posts: 10	I still unable to pull them all out. There are about 20 rounds that just don't want to come out. Yes, I did try to push some back in a bit, pushing in seems to be no effort at all. But pulling out is still a whole different story. I did measure some of the pulled out bullets, they are all .308" or .3075" in size. The pulled brass has the neck size (inside) of .306" to .3075". I'll definitely spend some time measure them all. I also measured a few brasses that I prepared recently, the neck sizes are all around 0.307". The ones that don't want to come out, still seemingly have the shank size of 0.308", measured just outside the neck. Any pulled bullets can be pulled again with the inertia puller in 3 to 5 hits. My local disposal regulation allows me to give them to the police for disposal. I'll keep them a bit longer to try if there is any new suggestion.

May 31, 2015, 08:48 PM	#35
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I've used an inertia puller to pull hundreds of bullets(including lots of sealed military). The secret is the speed of the "whack"-it's got to be snappy. I use a 20# block of wood as the striking surface to prevent breakage of the puller.

June 1, 2015, 08:41 PM	#37
meandmyrifle Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2015 Posts: 10	Thanks for the information, everyone. I appreciate it all!

June 3, 2015, 02:51 PM	#39
bangerjim Member Join Date: March 17, 2013 Location: SW Desert Posts: 57	Pulling I rely on 3 methods of pulling boolits: 1. RCBS collet puller......yes it DOES work with lead, unlike what the directions say 2. Inertia puller (when I cannot grab any areas with the collets.) 3. Vice grips and a big washer in the press. Grab the boolit with vice grips when it sticks tru the top. The washer protects the press threads! Works everytime for me. bnagerjim

June 8, 2015, 09:19 AM	#40
meandmyrifle Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2015 Posts: 10	Final report After pulling some rounds I made last year with the inertia puller, and hired a 3 feet 4x4 as my stand banging base, I pulled out one "stuck" round after 100+ hits. The force applied would get normal rounds out in 3 to 8 hits. The inertia puller seems to be more powerful when used properly. Or maybe there is another collet puller trick for me to discover. Thanks everyone!