reloading commercial and military 223

[lsbtx]

I always find it scary in opening my 1st thread on a new site/forum. Makes me think of that saying "if you don't want others to think your a fool ... keep you mouth closed". But I have a question I really need answered. So here goes ... I have been reloading for awhile so maybe not a novice but at least a knowledgeable beginner. I am loading 223/5.56 and have done a lot of research on military crimps (in fact pictures are beginning to invade my dreams) and how to handle. I have noticed that once I decap a military case if I check the primer pocket with my Lyman small pocket reaming tool and all fits well then I can prime this casing with no issues. The casing that don't pass the "pocket" test I set aside to handle other ways. So what is the danger, if any, in not swagging, removing, reaming, etc. the military crimps? If they prime OK (i.e. as easy as any commercial round) then am I good to go?

[JohnKSa]

Moving to Reloading.

Welcome to TFL!

[condor bravo]

As long as there is no primer shearing during seating with the military cases, AND the primers seat slightly below flush with the case head, they should be as good as seating commercial cases.

[AK103K]

After years of reloading military brass, I usually try to avoid it, simply because it tends to be shorter lived, and requires a little more work. Commercial is just so much nicer to work with.

That said, I do still on occasion use the military head stamped stuff, especially since it seems Federal is Lake City anymore, and its everywhere.

I have a swage tool, so I do swage the pockets. I also have a case head space gauge, and I do check them after they are sized.

A primer depth gauge is nice too, but not generally necessary.

One thing you can do if the primers are catching, and not going in smoothly, and you dont have the swage tool is, use the case mouth chamfer/reamer tool in the primer pocket to bevel the edge. Ive found that to be a help with some rounds I dont normally swage, like some of the military 9mm I come across. Seems to be a help and work OK.

As far as primers go, if youre loading for the AR's, Id try and stick with the CCI primers. I would avoid the Winchesters, as I had some slam fire issues with them. The CCI's have always worked well in the autos for me.

[Panfisher]

I am a brass whire, I will load any type. I decap, clean by wet rumbling,ream the primer pocket, trim and resize. They them go I to zip lock bags to wait their turn. That way I know they are all good to go.

[chris in va]

I just buzz off he crimp with a chamfer bit in my drill.

[MarkGlazer]

You're halfway home. Unscrew the bit from the handle of your Lyman tool and place it in a drill. If the bit does not fit into the pocket, ream it out, less than 5 seconds worth of work and you're ready to move on with your loading process.

I have found that without the removal of the crimp I can't re-prime the case. Occasionally I run into the same issue with 9mm, rare, but it happens.

Good luck.

[Metal god]

I forgot to remove the crimp on some LC-12 , 308 cases once . They were quite hard to seat the primers in . What ended up happening was I dented/collapsed the cup a little and misaligned the anvil or something inside . These were used in load development at the time . When I fired the rounds the velocities were close to 1000fps slower then what they should have been and I was told by others watching me shoot that they could see un-burnt powder leave the muzzle .

Now I've heard 308 crimps can be much more prominent then the 5.56 crimps . Meaning some times you don't need to remove the crimp on 5.56 cases but always do with 7.62/308 cases .

My point is still the same though . Be sure the primers don't seat abnormally hard . If you dent , deform , or otherwise damage the cup while seating . You are running the risk of having issues in your loads having consistent ignition .

Right now I use military brass almost exclusively and swage/ream all primer pockets regardless . My thinking is that it takes almost the same amount of time to ream the pocket as it does to just simply check it . Why not just ream it out real quick while I'm there ?

[wpsdlrg]

RCBS sells a tool for around $10, specifically designed to both uniform primer pockets and cut out he crimp. I chuck mine into a cordless drill. Makes quick work of this problem.

Most of the .223 cases I have are "military" ones, anyway. After using the tool ONE time, they are just like any other .223 brass (at least, I use them that way).

[4runnerman]

I just use the Chamfer tool on mine. Right now I have about 50,000 rounds of 223. Yes 50,000. I will get my scale out and weight them fist. I sort out all the ones that are 95.0 to 97.0 gn's. The rest I sell. Resize them, trim and then run the reamer, If the reamer don't fit they get thrown into another box. After I am all done, I go back to the ones that did not fit and give a twist or 2 with the Chamfer tool. This job can be done with the Reamer, but I have found it more fatiguing on the fingers to hold them good enough to ream. Much easier on the fingers to just use the Chamfer tool. Most times I will dedicate just one whole day to this job as I do about 1000 at a time. I do load 223 only all winter on off season, so come summer I can just shoot. The rest I load as I need in batches of 100 or 200 at a time. Also-The 223 is the only one I will use range brass for. All other rifles I buy Lapua for as I do not want to take a chance on bad cases in higher power rifles.

[mehavey]

So what is the danger, if any, in not swagging,
removing, reaming, etc. the military crimps?

- If, as you say, the new primers seat w/ normal pressure -- Everything's fine.
- If they require extra-ordinary pressure -- or won't seat at all -- stop right there and ream/swage the pocket before proceeding.

There's nothing here that your own common sense won't (gasp ) "sense".

[Jim243]

So what is the danger, if any, in not swagging, removing, reaming, etc. the military crimps?

If any, the primer will not fit into the primer pocket. You can use an appropriate sized screw driver blade, a drill bit, or a primer pocket reamer to do the job, not much work is needed to take out the crimp.

Me I like the little primer pocket cutter on my Lyman case prep center, it uniforms the pocket as well as taking out any crimp. (small cutter on the right front)

I do not like the sweging tool because it stretches the primer pocket.

But the choice is up to you, and yes take out those primer pocket crimps, it will make your life much easier.

Good luck and stay safe.
Jim

[skizzums]

someone popped in and asked pretty much the identical question last week. .223 was my first rifle caliber and i knew beforehand about the crimps but had not researched if they were an issue or not or what the solution is. so eager to start loading them up i just decapped and reprimed with a 10-20% failure rate on seating, pretty bad, and to make it worse i think i went this route with my first box of 500 projectiles. that was alot of waste. i wasn't the hip intellectual thread poster that i am today at that time and noticed that i could just take a Phillips head bit and a corded drill and it took the crimps right out with a decent bit of hand pressure put toward the pocket. this was cheap(free) and it worked very well. but danged if it didn't make my hands/wrists sore have to put a bunch of pounds of pressure while holding the heavy corded drill. regardless of the carpal tunnel, i thought i was brilliant, especially after seeing the costs of a decent prep center( i started reloading at the height of the panic and it was strictly a saving money thing, i hadn't a clue that i would end up enjoying that side of the hobby more than the guns themselves). so that's when i hit the forum and shared my successes. little did i know that this was pretty common, it looked as if 40% of members ran a swage , 30% used a hand drill and the others were either using a hand uni-former with a few that were still in the tossing out stage. The ones using a corded drill cracked the issue of strain on the hands though by adding a countersink bit instead of using a wide Philips bit. that made all the difference right there. i could now sit and remove the crimp from a thousand rounds ina couple hours without rushing or breaking a sweat. that's how ive done it for the last four years now and have experienced no ill effects from this method, as dozens of other members that did the same technique also never could find a failure or inconsistency in shooting from just "removing" the crimp. but you decide for yourself what is best in your mind. the case prep centers do more than just de-crimp and are surely worth the cost, one day i'll likely invest in one myself. i will NOT ever go the route of swaging pockets one by one on the press though, don't see a benefit outside the benchrest community. good luck, welcome to loading 5.56, it's still gotta be my favorite rifle caliber to load since there are seemingly endless amounts of bullets/powders that you can work on to chase that little group with and it's affordable because of the insane popularity.

this picture is from when i just usd a phillips bit, best to use a wide one so it doesn't dig down into the flashole. left to right: primed/crimped case, deprimed/crimped case(note the ring), deprimd case after about 3-5 seconds with phillips head to remove crimp, re-primed case ready for loading.


this is a picture after i started using the countersink. practically identical result, but requires only one second each case and little to no pressure. left to right: case with crimp and then two cases with crimp removed with countersink bit and corded hand drill


only you can decide what your most comfortable with and your budget. just throwing out another option, and although it seems a little crude and like your cutting corners, it's actually a very popular method for QUICKLY getting rid of those crimps. it's so fast that crimps don't bother me one bit anymore. have fun

as for your actual question, if you can get a primer in there with not too much effort than it's fine, but you on't know until you primer is likely destroyed, at least some of the times. and different brands are going to give slightly better or worse results (Winchesters seem to have the most malleable cup and easier to squeeze into tight spots). i listed the above advice because it's so fast at LITERALLY one second per round that your not going to likely think twice about which crimps are a go and which are a no-go. you'll just sit and knock out a bucket in relatively short time.

[surveyor]

I have tried the press mounted swager from ch4d,
Yes it works, it is fast, but the only support is from the case rim.

I tried the rcbs bench mounted swages, they work, but I didn't find the rotating motion of the lever a natural movement

I tried the dillon swedge tool, and for a bench mounted unit, it is easy to use, good case support, natural motion.

I ended up with a rcbs crimp remover mounted in the case prep center, and combine that step with chamfer,debur,brush neck, remove crimp,brush primer pocket. It is less handling of the brass for me to do it this way.,

There is more than one way to do it, it is picking the one that bests suits your workflow.

[thump_rrr]

Skizzums, your stove top is very clean.

[kerreckt]

Small chamfer from RCBS tool or the Dillon 600 treatment. Mostly, the Dillon but problem cases when the Dillon isn't set up for that caliber gets chamfered.