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Old March 8, 2018, 03:52 PM   #1
Prof Young
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Can't get CVA Kentucky Rifle to fire????

Smoke Pole Shooters:
I have a CVA Kentucky Rifle kit gun that I bought assembled at an auction. $80 seemed like a good buy. I cleaned the bore, cleaned the nipple and cleaned to whole flash channel to the point that, with the screw on the end of the tube that the nipple screws into removed, I could shine a light thru that tube and see it at the bottom of the barrel. So there is/was no obstruction between cap end of nipple and the bottom of the barrel. It's a 45 cal so I loaded up with 80g (by volume) of Pyrodex RS, installed a Remington "new and hotter" #11 cap and bang but no boom. I try another cap. This cap doesn't even go bang. Two more caps don't go bang (And yes I bought these caps new just days ago). The fifth cap goes bang but still no boom. All in all I went through about ten caps and half didn't fire and half did but still no boom. Reamed the nipple to no avail. Tried a new nipple to no avail. Not sure what to do next. Looked on line for hotter caps but only ones I've found so far that were not remington I could only buy in 1000 cap lots.

Help!!!!

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Old March 8, 2018, 04:15 PM   #2
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Sounds like the powder is contaminated, probably oil soaked.
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Old March 8, 2018, 04:42 PM   #3
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Could be but . . .

Hawg:
Good thought. I guess that is possible. When I cleaned it the last patches were coming out with barely a smudge on them so . . .

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Old March 8, 2018, 04:43 PM   #4
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If you didn't get down in the patent breech you didn't get it all.
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Old March 8, 2018, 07:19 PM   #5
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Pull the nipple, drop some powder into the nipple hole and try another primer. If the powder is good the gun will go BOOOOM. Another, and safer option is to get a co2 cleaning set. You push it on the nipple and when you let it go the old powder/ball ext. will exit the barrel. I always kept a set in my kit.
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Old March 8, 2018, 07:27 PM   #6
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Yes just as AZ stated! Remove the nipple and see if theres powder in the drum, If not, you got something between the drum and the powder channel.
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Old March 8, 2018, 07:46 PM   #7
4V50 Gary
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Clean out the barrel and the nipple.

Cap the nipple on an empty barrel. Put the barrel down against a blade of grass. Now squeeze the trigger. The gases from the cap should blow the blade of grass. If this doesn't happen, you have some obstruction.
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Old March 8, 2018, 07:54 PM   #8
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Agree the powder is damp. I did this many years ago -- dug out the ball and some wet powder -- live/shoot and learn.

.02. David.
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Old March 8, 2018, 09:07 PM   #9
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What is the patten breech?

Hawg - What is the patten breech?

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Old March 8, 2018, 09:55 PM   #10
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See:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph.../#post-9379521

(In reality, about 1/4-3/8 inch)




As for solution this time, follow AZShooter's advice in Post #5



.

Last edited by mehavey; March 8, 2018 at 10:05 PM.
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Old March 9, 2018, 03:06 AM   #11
Model12Win
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A patch wrapped neatly over the top of a smaller caliber bronze bore brush also does a good job on the patent breech.

Keep all oils out of this area, same with the nipple and its drum. Ensure it is truly clean and thoroughly dry. Pat the side of the rifle after loading powder to settle some into the drum, below the nipple.

Also you probably ruined your nip by "reaming" it. You want a relatively small hole in the nip so the flame from the cap is forced through it, same concept as holding your thumb on a water hose. Too large a hole in the nipple can erratic velocities, burst caps and debris to fly from the nip, and even the hammer to be blown back to half or even full cock if you've really overdone it.

Get a good nipple pick and every few shots stick it into the flash hole, ensuring it's clear. Also when wiping the bore during shooting use only a small amount of cleaning solution (whatever it may be, even spit or sperm oil as the old timers used) so that the patent breech doesn't collect moisture. Using a too damp a patch will flood the small area and make a "mud" or "tar" and prevent the fire reaching the powder.

So many little things, but above all, keep the area clean and DRY. So long as the caps are bursting, and there's a clear channel to the powder, no reason the gun shan't go off each time.
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Old March 9, 2018, 09:51 PM   #12
Prof Young
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Thanks for the solution and education!!!

AZ's suggestion about putting powder in the nipple hole got the gun to shoot. And I now understand about the patten breech and how to make sure it is cleaned. Shot the gun eight times today had to use the powder in nipple hole thing three times. I'd like to use it to deer hunt but am not confident with it yet. Have to shoot it more to see. I had some split second delay in ignition a couple of time. It is fun to shoot, but Pyrodex is one dirty powder.

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Old March 9, 2018, 09:57 PM   #13
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If you can possibly get some real BP, pick up a pound of 3F.
You will never look back.
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Old March 10, 2018, 12:19 AM   #14
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Pyrodex is not only fouling/dirty it is also a corrosive powder too. Quicker to corrode than Black Powder Pyrodex is.
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Old March 10, 2018, 09:59 PM   #15
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If the above doesn't work you will need a scraper for the breech to scrape out the hardened crud.
The gunworks has them and I believe Dixie and TOW

A lot of Remington caps are missing the chemical that goes bang.
Before putting on the nipple make sure the the wad is in the cap
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Old March 11, 2018, 05:08 PM   #16
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My CVA won’t set off Pyrodex as good as it does Goex.
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Old March 11, 2018, 05:16 PM   #17
mehavey
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Quote:
...you will need a scraper for the breech to scrape out the hardened crud.
That only works if the breech is square-faced (which CVA ain't... )
Read HERE to get a grip on cleaning out the crud in the patent breech recess:
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Old March 11, 2018, 05:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Reamed the nipple to no avail.
I'm not sure if you mean you cleaned it or drilled out the nipple but if you did drill it out you ruined it. Get one of the Hot Shot nipples or one of the vented nipples from Uncle Mikes.

Quote:
Shot the gun eight times today had to use the powder in nipple hole thing three times.
You should never have to pull the nipple and put powder in the drum to get the rifle to fire.

And try to find some 3F real black powder. You can just add about 5grs in before you put in your charge of fake BP and it will light off much easier. Real BP is much easier to get to fire than Pyrodex. I do use Pyrodex but I always put in a BP kicker charge first.

But if you ever try real BP you won't go back to the alternate powders.
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Old March 11, 2018, 08:04 PM   #19
Prof Young
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Thanks

Thanks for all the useful info. The article on how to clean a muzzleloader is most useful.

"Reamed" was the wrong word to use. I used the nipple pick that came with my nipple wrench to clear the opening.

Okay, I think I need to learn to care for and feed this thing better an all will be well.

Any thoughts on where one can buy real black powder?

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Old March 11, 2018, 11:25 PM   #20
mehavey
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Where are you (state-wise) ?
Then we can discuss possible local BP sources
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Old March 12, 2018, 01:00 PM   #21
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You can order BP from https://powderinc.com/ and also from Graf and Sons. I believe powderinc may be the cheaper overall but you will need to order a 25 pound case to get the best break. If you don't need that much see if another person or two will split the shipment with you. Thats what I did the last 25 pound case I ordered.
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Old March 12, 2018, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Pyrodex is not only fouling/dirty it is also a corrosive powder too. Quicker to corrode than Black Powder Pyrodex is.
That's simply not true. Pyrodex is no worse than bp. I go for several days at a time without cleaning either one.
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Old March 14, 2018, 02:42 PM   #23
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I had a 50 cal. Mountain rifle that I built in 1977? It would not go off reliably either. At the time there was a good blackpowder fire arms store/ smith in my area. We narrowed the problem to the flash hole size thru the drum. We opened it up a bit and problem was solved.
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Old March 14, 2018, 04:19 PM   #24
Hawg
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Quote:
We narrowed the problem to the flash hole size thru the drum. We opened it up a bit and problem was solved.
A flash hole should be very small. Opening one up can lead to problems.
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Old March 14, 2018, 04:25 PM   #25
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he means the powder channel on the sidelock version.
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