For LE only

beauryker · July 21, 2011, 10:07 AM

When a firearm is listed for sale to LE only by a manufacturer, what is required to purchase the firearm? Is this the same as a Title II weapon?

Thanks

bullethole1 · July 21, 2011, 12:27 PM

It means only Law Enforcement can buy, Fbi,Highway Patrol,Local,Sheriff Deputy,Atf,Game Warden,Swat etc.Its just like Law Enforcement Oakley sunglasses ,I think its dumb but thats the way it is.

Old Grump · July 21, 2011, 01:01 PM

It's good advertising for their product and CYA that they won't get sued if somebody uses their product in an illegal endeavor.

aarondhgraham · July 21, 2011, 01:09 PM

LE only in a semi-auto hand gun,,,
Could mean it's capacity is more than 10 rounds.

Many states like California restrict us mere citizens,,,
To 10 round maximum magazine capacity.

Aarond

armsmaster270 · July 21, 2011, 01:12 PM

There are a lot of everyday firearms in CA that were taken off the approved list by DOJ because the manufacturer did not want to pony up the bucks for retesting plus submitting many samples to possibly be destroyed in the drop test etc. just because they made a minor change in the gun. Someone comes in from out of state & sells their "non approved" gun to a dealer, he can only sell it to L.E.. Yeah I know it's stupid, but that is CA.

chasep255 · July 21, 2011, 08:44 PM

LE only in the world of NFA weapons probably means a post-86 machine gun. Everything else can in some way be purchased by civilians depending on where they live. I have always wondered if LEOs have to go through the same NFA process as anyone else. If you are say in the FBI and want a machine gun do you need to register it with the ATF? What are the differences (other than the exemptions from the $200 tax and LEO sign off)?

medalguy · July 22, 2011, 12:09 AM

LEOs have to go through the same hoops as the rest of us when buying a registered MG. It may be easier to get the signature but I know of a couple of chiefs who won't sign even for their own officers.

phagar · July 22, 2011, 12:23 AM

Law Enforcement only means the "agency" and not the individual officer . No individual can purchase a "post sample" machine gun" (even an officer that works for the department) . It is a "tool" and can only be issued for on the job use .

hagar,

Arizona Tactical Firearms (ATF)
Manufacturer (07) and (02) tax paid .

beauryker · July 23, 2011, 12:06 PM

Ok, I sorta found out one thing I needed to know. The other is this....a manufacturer states on his website that a particular rifle is for LE only (letterhead, sig, etc), which would make the rifle property of the dept and not an individual. So, if I personally want to purchase this rifle, how would I go about doing so? Would I have to find an in-state III dealer to buy it from the manufacturer for me? Or would he even be able to purchase the rifle?

If it matters, the rifle I'm referring to is an FNH MK16CQC.

HuntAndFish · July 23, 2011, 02:09 PM

Well, this rifle [FNH MK16CQC] is a recently manufactured select fire weapon. The sad fact is US Civilians living in the US are not allowed to own any select fire weapon manufactured after May 1986. The Hughes amendment to the FOPA '86 prevents you from personally owning one.

You would have to commit a felony to own one. (10 years AND $250K max, I think)

EDIT: Well that's not strictly true. You could become a Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) and sell them. That would allow you to possess for the purpose of selling them to LE/Mil.

You can own the MK16S semi-auto version of this rifle. I'm not sure if a short "CQC" barrel is available, but if it is you could register this as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) under NFA '34 and own it legally.

beauryker · July 23, 2011, 08:46 PM

Thank you sir. The select fire aspect of the firearm is not particularly of interest to me. The SB aspect was. I had thought about buying the MK16 model and swapping barrels. They do make a 10". At what point would I have to register the rifle? When I bought the barrel, or when I installed it on the weapon?
Thanks again.

HuntAndFish · July 23, 2011, 09:43 PM

Owning both the weapon and the barrel might be construed by the authorities as "constructive possession". You can have one or the other, but both might be problematic. BE CAREFUL, THE PENALTIES ARE STEEP. Once you have ATF permission to build the weapon, you are okay.

This may help discover how to go about it:

SBR FAQ from www.Quarterbore.com

EDIT: There are good resources at the BATFE web site. The government works for you (or should) and their web site has resources (forms, info, regs) that you should read and that will help you.

mcdowellbri · July 28, 2011, 05:16 AM

Im kind of interested in this one, due to the fact of some items being completely legal to own, you just cant physically put in offers for the stuff because they want all the LEO info. theres several HK pistols, completely legal to own but theyre not on the civilian site. the M24 has recently lapsed in its contract to be solely used by the US military, its only on the LE site for remington though.

Gossettc68 · July 30, 2011, 04:32 PM

The above poster is correct. I have to deal with this all the time selling my Full auto glock kits. The LEO has to get a department letterhead in order to convert the gun.

Other than that only C2 and C3's can do it it...Well, a C3 has to get a C2 to make a post sample for him.

I deal with LEO's daily and their biggest hurdle is convincing their chief to sign off on a Dept. Letterhead. This is mainly due to the fact that the uppers don't see a need for that much firepower. I always tell them to tell there superiors that they don't always have their shotgun on hand and with a flick of a selector switch that remedies that problem.

Believe it or not this pitch has enabled plenty of our LEO's to pack the much needed heat in certain situations.

ClydeFrog · September 7, 2011, 02:19 AM

Some sellers of class III or AOWs state they must have a original document or form on dept or agency letterhead that says the person buying the firearm is a sworn LE officer and/or the intended use(s) of the firearm(s); SWAT, air support, covert-plainclothes ops, EP/PSD(witness security, bodyguards).

I'm not an expert on ATF or NFA forms but I have seen a few firearms/special weapons with those conditions.

July 21, 2011, 10:07 AM	#1
beauryker Junior Member Join Date: November 13, 2008 Posts: 3	For LE only When a firearm is listed for sale to LE only by a manufacturer, what is required to purchase the firearm? Is this the same as a Title II weapon? Thanks

July 21, 2011, 01:01 PM	#3
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	It's good advertising for their product and CYA that they won't get sued if somebody uses their product in an illegal endeavor. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

July 21, 2011, 01:09 PM	#4
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Depending on your state,,, LE only in a semi-auto hand gun,,, Could mean it's capacity is more than 10 rounds. Many states like California restrict us mere citizens,,, To 10 round maximum magazine capacity. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

July 21, 2011, 01:12 PM	#5
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	There are a lot of everyday firearms in CA that were taken off the approved list by DOJ because the manufacturer did not want to pony up the bucks for retesting plus submitting many samples to possibly be destroyed in the drop test etc. just because they made a minor change in the gun. Someone comes in from out of state & sells their "non approved" gun to a dealer, he can only sell it to L.E.. Yeah I know it's stupid, but that is CA. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

July 23, 2011, 12:06 PM	#9
beauryker Junior Member Join Date: November 13, 2008 Posts: 3	Ok, I sorta found out one thing I needed to know. The other is this....a manufacturer states on his website that a particular rifle is for LE only (letterhead, sig, etc), which would make the rifle property of the dept and not an individual. So, if I personally want to purchase this rifle, how would I go about doing so? Would I have to find an in-state III dealer to buy it from the manufacturer for me? Or would he even be able to purchase the rifle? If it matters, the rifle I'm referring to is an FNH MK16CQC. Last edited by beauryker; July 23, 2011 at 12:18 PM.

July 21, 2011, 12:27 PM	#2
bullethole1 Junior member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Location: San Antonio , Texas Posts: 253	It means only Law Enforcement can buy, Fbi,Highway Patrol,Local,Sheriff Deputy,Atf,Game Warden,Swat etc.Its just like Law Enforcement Oakley sunglasses ,I think its dumb but thats the way it is.

July 21, 2011, 08:44 PM	#6
chasep255 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 727	LE only in the world of NFA weapons probably means a post-86 machine gun. Everything else can in some way be purchased by civilians depending on where they live. I have always wondered if LEOs have to go through the same NFA process as anyone else. If you are say in the FBI and want a machine gun do you need to register it with the ATF? What are the differences (other than the exemptions from the $200 tax and LEO sign off)?

July 22, 2011, 12:09 AM	#7
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	LEOs have to go through the same hoops as the rest of us when buying a registered MG. It may be easier to get the signature but I know of a couple of chiefs who won't sign even for their own officers.

July 22, 2011, 12:23 AM	#8
phagar Member Join Date: November 20, 2009 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 15	Law Enforcement only means the "agency" and not the individual officer . No individual can purchase a "post sample" machine gun" (even an officer that works for the department) . It is a "tool" and can only be issued for on the job use . hagar, Arizona Tactical Firearms (ATF) Manufacturer (07) and (02) tax paid .

July 23, 2011, 02:09 PM	#10
HuntAndFish Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO. Posts: 580	Well, this rifle [FNH MK16CQC] is a recently manufactured select fire weapon. The sad fact is US Civilians living in the US are not allowed to own any select fire weapon manufactured after May 1986. The Hughes amendment to the FOPA '86 prevents you from personally owning one. You would have to commit a felony to own one. (10 years AND $250K max, I think) EDIT: Well that's not strictly true. You could become a Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) and sell them. That would allow you to possess for the purpose of selling them to LE/Mil. You can own the MK16S semi-auto version of this rifle. I'm not sure if a short "CQC" barrel is available, but if it is you could register this as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) under NFA '34 and own it legally. __________________ NRA Benefactor MSSA Life Member Last edited by HuntAndFish; July 23, 2011 at 02:56 PM.

July 23, 2011, 08:46 PM	#11
beauryker Junior Member Join Date: November 13, 2008 Posts: 3	Thank you sir. The select fire aspect of the firearm is not particularly of interest to me. The SB aspect was. I had thought about buying the MK16 model and swapping barrels. They do make a 10". At what point would I have to register the rifle? When I bought the barrel, or when I installed it on the weapon? Thanks again.

July 23, 2011, 09:43 PM	#12
HuntAndFish Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO. Posts: 580	Owning both the weapon and the barrel might be construed by the authorities as "constructive possession". You can have one or the other, but both might be problematic. BE CAREFUL, THE PENALTIES ARE STEEP. Once you have ATF permission to build the weapon, you are okay. This may help discover how to go about it: SBR FAQ from www.Quarterbore.com EDIT: There are good resources at the BATFE web site. The government works for you (or should) and their web site has resources (forms, info, regs) that you should read and that will help you. __________________ NRA Benefactor MSSA Life Member Last edited by HuntAndFish; July 23, 2011 at 09:58 PM.

July 28, 2011, 05:16 AM	#13
mcdowellbri Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2011 Posts: 13	Im kind of interested in this one, due to the fact of some items being completely legal to own, you just cant physically put in offers for the stuff because they want all the LEO info. theres several HK pistols, completely legal to own but theyre not on the civilian site. the M24 has recently lapsed in its contract to be solely used by the US military, its only on the LE site for remington though.

July 30, 2011, 04:32 PM	#14
Gossettc68 Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Posts: 23	The above poster is correct. I have to deal with this all the time selling my Full auto glock kits. The LEO has to get a department letterhead in order to convert the gun. Other than that only C2 and C3's can do it it...Well, a C3 has to get a C2 to make a post sample for him. I deal with LEO's daily and their biggest hurdle is convincing their chief to sign off on a Dept. Letterhead. This is mainly due to the fact that the uppers don't see a need for that much firepower. I always tell them to tell there superiors that they don't always have their shotgun on hand and with a flick of a selector switch that remedies that problem. Believe it or not this pitch has enabled plenty of our LEO's to pack the much needed heat in certain situations.

September 7, 2011, 02:19 AM	#15
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	"department letterhead".... Some sellers of class III or AOWs state they must have a original document or form on dept or agency letterhead that says the person buying the firearm is a sworn LE officer and/or the intended use(s) of the firearm(s); SWAT, air support, covert-plainclothes ops, EP/PSD(witness security, bodyguards). I'm not an expert on ATF or NFA forms but I have seen a few firearms/special weapons with those conditions.

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