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Old September 20, 2022, 06:38 AM   #26
Wag
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I find that the more guns I acquire, the more likely it is that a few of them will sit unused for longer periods of time. Back when I only had three or four or five, they all got cleaned quite frequently. Now, there are probably a dozen or so that don't get into the cleaning zone very often any more. Sometimes, five or six years. So far, none of them have ever failed as a result of lack of use.

If I do decide to take one of them to the range, I generally take a swipe or two and a quick rub with an oiled patch and check the action to make sure it's working before it goes to the range. Just to be sure.

As for keeping them loaded, this may cause some consternation: I always keep them all loaded all the time. I figure that as long as one of the first four safety rules is, "all guns are always loaded all the time," then I'll keep them loaded all the time. Then there are no mistakes about it. Ergo, I keep my dang fingers off the triggers, keep them pointed in safe directions, etc.

They are always locked up, even though I don't have any curtain climbers around the house. I never know if a friend is going to come by with their little grandkids and we'll lose track of one at some point.

So yeah, I never have issues with keeping a gun loaded and they have yet to fail me.

--Wag--
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Old September 20, 2022, 11:30 AM   #27
44 AMP
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Quote:
I figure that as long as one of the first four safety rules is, "all guns are always loaded all the time,"
That's what some say today, but its not the actual rule as originally stated. Its the modern "hyper-compressed" version and it actually changes the intent of the rule, by leaving out important words.

First off, it cannot be taken at face value. All guns are NOT always loaded all the time. As a flat declarative statement, it is not true.

TREAT every gun AS IF it were loaded, until you, personally, have checked it. If the gun leaves your sight (some will say "your control") even briefly, treat it as if it were loaded until you have checked it, again.

this is the full idea, it is a safety rule, one of the instructions for what you should do to be safe handling firearms.

One of the important parts of the rule (and one that is lost in the "short version") is that you, personally, are responsible for checking the gun to ensure its condition, loaded or unloaded. YOU, no one else. You do not take anyone's word for it. Even people you trust about other things, can make mistakes. You need to see the chamber is empty, or not. If you can't see it, you need to feel it.

People defend the short version (though I don't know why) by saying "everyone knows what you mean"...

But, everyone doesn't. On top of that, some won't follow the rules even when they are fully stated. A certain actor/producer comes to mind as a recent example.....

And, its poor grammar, leaving out words changes the rule from an instruction (something you should do) to a flat declaration of the condition of the gun (always loaded all the time) which is patently not true....

Store your guns as you see fit, they are your property. Personally, I see no point to storing guns loaded. Now, I have some guns I keep loaded, for personal/home defense, but those guns are not in "storage" as I see it, they are in use. Even if I don't touch one for some time, I consider it in use (since it is loaded, and ready to go).
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Old September 20, 2022, 02:25 PM   #28
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44 AMP said that much more eloquently than I could have. "All guns are always loaded" is obviously an inaccurate (i.e. false) statement.IMHO, attempting to convey an important safety rule by misstating it is a recipe for disaster.
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Old September 20, 2022, 03:49 PM   #29
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Also it's convenient to say "everyone knows the four rules of safety" but it's also completely false. In fact I would imagine that less then one out of ten gun owners actually know any of them. And gun owners are still a vast minority of today's population.

It's very possible that even if a loaded gun is secured in a safe that the person that removes it will assume it is unloaded.

Since there really are few valid reasons to keep a loaded gun even if secured it would make sense to try to prevent future accidents, particularly potentially fatal accidents. If I store my Detective Special in a quick open safe unloaded but with a loaded speed loader it is still available in an emergency. If I store my 1911 unloaded but with a loaded magazine sitting alongside it is still available in an emergency. And if someone who does not know the four rules happens to be the person who opens the safe they would have to intentionally load the handgun before any harm might be done.

It really seems a simple and reasonable precaution.
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Old September 21, 2022, 06:59 AM   #30
Wag
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I do agree that it's a fallacy to say that "all guns are loaded all the time." I never did hear it any other way but I've always considered that a worthwhile dissection to say to treat them "as if" they are loaded makes a lot more sense.

It's also true that few people know the four basic safety rules (or the dozen NRA safety rules) so if I go shooting with someone for the first time, I go over it with them.

So, keeping my guns loaded all the time is a good way to make the statement true. "If I hand you one of my guns, it's loaded. Keep your booger hook off the trigger."

Frankly, I suspect there are pros and cons either way. Guns in the safe are never going to be quickly deployed and if you're not legally able to transport loaded guns, you have to remember to unload them all before going to the range and hope you don't miss unloading one of them.

--Wag--
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Old September 21, 2022, 11:38 AM   #31
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I wish people would stop saying "the four rules". Saying it that way implies there aren't any other rules, and there are plenty of more rules.

The FIRST four rules are vitally important, and apply ALL the time, but that doesn't mean you should be ignorant of, or ignore the others.

My Father gave NRA Hunter Safety classes every fall. From the time I was in elementary school until I went into the Army, I was involved in every one. Fetch and carry stuff when I was little, more as I grew up.

EVERYTHING taught in those classes is important, but not everything applies to daily life. Its not anything vital to most people in urban settings that they remember one of the rules is to open the action/unload your gun before climbing over a fence or crossing a stream....

But if you don't know, or cannot correctly state those FIRST four and understand the reasons behind them, you're not properly educated in firearm safety.
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Old September 21, 2022, 03:30 PM   #32
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Interesting bit of history. A friend's grandfather fought in WW1 and brought the 1911 he had been issued home with him. Apparently it was placed in a drawer and probably never fired. When the old guy died, his son got the gun and apparently not being a gun person threw the gun in a dresser drawer and forgot about it. When he passed, my friend got the gun and noticed the magazine was fully loaded. So he took a little trip out in the desert and banged off seven rounds. All fired without a problem. He reloaded the magazine and put the gun away. When I visited him and his wife he showed me the gun which now was covered in rust. I cleaned it up the best I could but the gun was ruined as far as being a collectible. Based on the serial number I figured it to have been issued around late 1913 to early 1914. Well prior to the start of WW1. On the areas that had no rust, I could se what was left of a beautiful blue job, much better that what Colt does today. What a shame. A colt 1911 that early if pristine would have been worth a pretty penny. Now, it's just an old rusty gun with a low serial number. Headstamp on the brass was FA14. That ammo was 108 years old and it still went bang.
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