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Old January 19, 2022, 11:08 AM   #1
OldMarksman
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A Car Jacking

The crime of car-jacking, which is a crime against persons, has been becoming more and more frequent.

Whether one should attempt to employ deadly force in the event of car-jacking is a function of whether it would be necessary to do so to prevent death or serious bodily harm. Sometimes the answer is no. At other times, it is a judgment call, and one must decide whether compliance, resistance, or driving away would be more prudent.

I like to have the option. I carry a pistol in a pocket accessible by the left hand while I am strapped in.

The driver in this video keeps his in the door. The perp entered his car, and he decided to use deadly force. The incident is worth contemplating.

Note that he has his attorney with him during the interview.

https://www.deltadefense.com/offers/...=61794fa68f6f1
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Old January 19, 2022, 03:05 PM   #2
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Thanks, that was an interesting and informative discussion.
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Old January 20, 2022, 09:05 AM   #3
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drive a old ford pinto stick shift and never worry about it. a 5 minute delay kill switch may be the answer, that would need to be reset under the hood.
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Old January 20, 2022, 11:03 AM   #4
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drive a old ford pinto stick shift and never worry about it. a 5 minute delay kill switch may be the answer, that would need to be reset under the hood
That would work (except for Rideshare) if the perp tries to leave in the car by himself, Not here.
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Old January 20, 2022, 01:09 PM   #5
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That is one scary video. Consider the possibilities:
  • The victim complies and is later allowed to leave the car. That's the best outcome.
  • The victim resists and defends himself successfully.
  • The victim resists and is killed or injured.
The perp's reaching into the driver's pocket is a bad indication. His being in the back seat make things pretty iffy.

Perhaps a good training exercise.
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Old January 20, 2022, 05:08 PM   #6
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Had a Ford Pinto. Always left unlocked with key in ignition. No takers. One time someone left Cleveland Browns season tickets on dash.
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Old January 20, 2022, 05:50 PM   #7
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Refers tp grand theft auto. Different animal.
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Old January 20, 2022, 06:59 PM   #8
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Shoot the criminal, rely on better tried by 12 than carried by 6 - especially true, it seems lately, in Philadelphia
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Old January 20, 2022, 07:31 PM   #9
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Was the car locked?
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Old January 20, 2022, 09:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
That is one scary video. Consider the possibilities:

The victim complies and is later allowed to leave the car. That's the best outcome.
The victim resists and defends himself successfully.
The victim resists and is killed or injured.
You forgot one. Victim complies and they kill or injure him anyway.

https://kfdm.com/news/local/carjacki...-understand-it
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Old January 20, 2022, 09:43 PM   #11
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You forgot one. Victim complies and they kill or injure him anyway.
Yes. Thanks.
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Old January 21, 2022, 03:25 AM   #12
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Just a quick recap.

It's about a 22 minute video of a discussion of a carjacking of a Rideshare driver.

It includes the dash cam video of the actual carjacking and the video quality is very good. Spoiler alert: no shots are fired.

There is some legal information from a lawyer too.

IMhO it's a very worth while video to watch. Thanks for posting the link.
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Old January 21, 2022, 09:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ukrainitz View Post
Had a Ford Pinto. Always left unlocked with key in ignition. No takers. One time someone left Cleveland Browns season tickets on dash.
That’s so funny!! But I’m sure it is a true story.
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Old January 21, 2022, 06:12 PM   #14
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If the victim]is approached before entering the car or after getting out of it, something has likely gone wrong--and the best response is probably compliance.

In the case at hand, the perp entered the car with the victim in it. That presents a tougher choice.
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Old January 22, 2022, 09:04 AM   #15
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Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.
Best,
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Old January 22, 2022, 10:25 AM   #16
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Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.
Trying to bring out a weapon could be a very iffy thing to do at that point.
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Old January 23, 2022, 05:08 PM   #17
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Agreed, in a legal sense you are green lighted almost anywhere. Tactically, seeing a weapon sooner is better.
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Old January 23, 2022, 06:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.
Quote:
Trying to bring out a weapon could be a very iffy thing to do at that point.
Once the bad guys bring out a weapon and threaten you with it, things are ALREADY iffy at that point as your life is already being threatened.

Fighting back can get you killed. Compliance can get you killed. Trying to run away can get you killed. As with the driver in the video above, he played his cards and waited until the appropriate opportunity. You can be stupid like the deceased security guard at the White Settlement Church or you can be smart like the head of security that waited for a distraction or misdirection.
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Old January 23, 2022, 07:34 PM   #19
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You do have to wait for your turn to shoot. Early drawing could be bad.
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Old January 24, 2022, 10:02 AM   #20
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Once the bad guys bring out a weapon and threaten you with it, things are ALREADY iffy at that point as your life is already being threatened.

Fighting back can get you killed. Compliance can get you killed. Trying to run away can get you killed. As with the driver in the video above, he played his cards and waited until the appropriate opportunity. You can be stupid like the deceased security guard at the White Settlement Church or you can be smart like the head of security that waited for a distraction or misdirection
Very well put indeed.

If I am outside the car or am told to get out, my default tactic would be to comply.

If they get into the car with me and do not tell me to get out, I will be thinking about trying to neutralize them when I can.
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Old January 24, 2022, 01:09 PM   #21
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Great interview. Professionally and thoughtfully done . Thanks for posting .
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Old January 24, 2022, 02:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMarksman
Very well put indeed.

If I am outside the car or am told to get out, my default tactic would be to comply.

If they get into the car with me and do not tell me to get out, I will be thinking about trying to neutralize them when I can.
Another factor is who is/isn't with you. If your family is in the car while you are outside the car and the carjacker is willing to let them exit the vehicle, I would continue to comply. If the carjacker is not willing to let me remove my family then compliance isn't something I can consider.

I have done the carjacking scenario and a number of other scenarios in force on force, scenario based training events. To echo some comments above, beating a drawn weapon is extremely difficult. I know some people that are unwilling to consider compliance regardless of the scenario. I've seen firsthand in that training how that can go.
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Old January 24, 2022, 04:41 PM   #23
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Another factor is who is/isn't with you.
Yes indeed.
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