A Car Jacking

**OldMarksman** · January 19, 2022, 11:08 AM

The crime of car-jacking, which is a crime against persons, has been becoming more and more frequent.

Whether one should attempt to employ deadly force in the event of car-jacking is a function of whether it would be necessary to do so to prevent death or serious bodily harm. Sometimes the answer is no. At other times, it is a judgment call, and one must decide whether compliance, resistance, or driving away would be more prudent.

I like to have the option. I carry a pistol in a pocket accessible by the left hand while I am strapped in.

The driver in this video keeps his in the door. The perp entered his car, and he decided to use deadly force. The incident is worth contemplating.

Note that he has his attorney with him during the interview.

https://www.deltadefense.com/offers/...=61794fa68f6f1

WyMark · January 19, 2022, 03:05 PM

Thanks, that was an interesting and informative discussion.

eastbank · January 20, 2022, 09:05 AM

drive a old ford pinto stick shift and never worry about it. a 5 minute delay kill switch may be the answer, that would need to be reset under the hood.

**OldMarksman** · January 20, 2022, 11:03 AM

Quote:

drive a old ford pinto stick shift and never worry about it. a 5 minute delay kill switch may be the answer, that would need to be reset under the hood

That would work (except for Rideshare) if the perp tries to leave in the car by himself, Not here.

**OldMarksman** · January 20, 2022, 01:09 PM

That is one scary video. Consider the possibilities:

The victim complies and is later allowed to leave the car. That's the best outcome.
The victim resists and defends himself successfully.
The victim resists and is killed or injured.

The perp's reaching into the driver's pocket is a bad indication. His being in the back seat make things pretty iffy.

Perhaps a good training exercise.

Ukrainitz · January 20, 2022, 05:08 PM

Had a Ford Pinto. Always left unlocked with key in ignition. No takers. One time someone left Cleveland Browns season tickets on dash.

**OldMarksman** · January 20, 2022, 05:50 PM

Refers tp grand theft auto. Different animal.

FITASC · January 20, 2022, 06:59 PM

Shoot the criminal, rely on better tried by 12 than carried by 6 - especially true, it seems lately, in Philadelphia

Moonglum · January 20, 2022, 07:31 PM

Was the car locked?

Double Naught Spy · January 20, 2022, 09:31 PM

Quote:

That is one scary video. Consider the possibilities:

The victim complies and is later allowed to leave the car. That's the best outcome.
The victim resists and defends himself successfully.
The victim resists and is killed or injured.

You forgot one. Victim complies and they kill or injure him anyway.

https://kfdm.com/news/local/carjacki...-understand-it

**OldMarksman** · January 20, 2022, 09:43 PM

Quote:

You forgot one. Victim complies and they kill or injure him anyway.

Yes. Thanks.

DaleA · January 21, 2022, 03:25 AM

Just a quick recap.

It's about a 22 minute video of a discussion of a carjacking of a Rideshare driver.

It includes the dash cam video of the actual carjacking and the video quality is very good. Spoiler alert: no shots are fired.

There is some legal information from a lawyer too.

IMhO it's a very worth while video to watch. Thanks for posting the link.

Ed4032 · January 21, 2022, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ukrainitz

Had a Ford Pinto. Always left unlocked with key in ignition. No takers. One time someone left Cleveland Browns season tickets on dash.

That’s so funny!! But I’m sure it is a true story.

**OldMarksman** · January 21, 2022, 06:12 PM

If the victim]is approached before entering the car or after getting out of it, something has likely gone wrong--and the best response is probably compliance.

In the case at hand, the perp entered the car with the victim in it. That presents a tougher choice.

robmkivseries70 · January 22, 2022, 09:04 AM

Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.
Best,
Rob

**OldMarksman** · January 22, 2022, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.

Trying to bring out a weapon could be a very iffy thing to do at that point.

robmkivseries70 · January 23, 2022, 05:08 PM

Agreed, in a legal sense you are green lighted almost anywhere. Tactically, seeing a weapon sooner is better.
Best,
Rob

Double Naught Spy · January 23, 2022, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force.

Quote:

Trying to bring out a weapon could be a very iffy thing to do at that point.

Once the bad guys bring out a weapon and threaten you with it, things are ALREADY iffy at that point as your life is already being threatened.

Fighting back can get you killed. Compliance can get you killed. Trying to run away can get you killed. As with the driver in the video above, he played his cards and waited until the appropriate opportunity. You can be stupid like the deceased security guard at the White Settlement Church or you can be smart like the head of security that waited for a distraction or misdirection.

Ed4032 · January 23, 2022, 07:34 PM

You do have to wait for your turn to shoot. Early drawing could be bad.

**OldMarksman** · January 24, 2022, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Once the bad guys bring out a weapon and threaten you with it, things are ALREADY iffy at that point as your life is already being threatened.

Fighting back can get you killed. Compliance can get you killed. Trying to run away can get you killed. As with the driver in the video above, he played his cards and waited until the appropriate opportunity. You can be stupid like the deceased security guard at the White Settlement Church or you can be smart like the head of security that waited for a distraction or misdirection

Very well put indeed.

If I am outside the car or am told to get out, my default tactic would be to comply.

If they get into the car with me and do not tell me to get out, I will be thinking about trying to neutralize them when I can.

Bentonville · January 24, 2022, 01:09 PM

Great interview. Professionally and thoughtfully done . Thanks for posting .

TunnelRat · January 24, 2022, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

Very well put indeed.

If I am outside the car or am told to get out, my default tactic would be to comply.

If they get into the car with me and do not tell me to get out, I will be thinking about trying to neutralize them when I can.

Another factor is who is/isn't with you. If your family is in the car while you are outside the car and the carjacker is willing to let them exit the vehicle, I would continue to comply. If the carjacker is not willing to let me remove my family then compliance isn't something I can consider.

I have done the carjacking scenario and a number of other scenarios in force on force, scenario based training events. To echo some comments above, beating a drawn weapon is extremely difficult. I know some people that are unwilling to consider compliance regardless of the scenario. I've seen firsthand in that training how that can go.

**OldMarksman** · January 24, 2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Another factor is who is/isn't with you.

Yes indeed.

January 19, 2022, 11:08 AM	#1
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	A Car Jacking The crime of car-jacking, which is a crime against persons, has been becoming more and more frequent. Whether one should attempt to employ deadly force in the event of car-jacking is a function of whether it would be necessary to do so to prevent death or serious bodily harm. Sometimes the answer is no. At other times, it is a judgment call, and one must decide whether compliance, resistance, or driving away would be more prudent. I like to have the option. I carry a pistol in a pocket accessible by the left hand while I am strapped in. The driver in this video keeps his in the door. The perp entered his car, and he decided to use deadly force. The incident is worth contemplating. Note that he has his attorney with him during the interview. https://www.deltadefense.com/offers/...=61794fa68f6f1

January 20, 2022, 01:09 PM	#5
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	That is one scary video. Consider the possibilities: The victim complies and is later allowed to leave the car. That's the best outcome. The victim resists and defends himself successfully. The victim resists and is killed or injured. The perp's reaching into the driver's pocket is a bad indication. His being in the back seat make things pretty iffy. Perhaps a good training exercise.

January 20, 2022, 06:59 PM	#8
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,443	Shoot the criminal, rely on better tried by 12 than carried by 6 - especially true, it seems lately, in Philadelphia __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

January 20, 2022, 07:31 PM	#9
Moonglum Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2015 Posts: 468	Was the car locked? __________________ Skating On Thin Ice

January 23, 2022, 07:34 PM	#19
Ed4032 Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 306	You do have to wait for your turn to shoot. Early drawing could be bad. __________________ Gun control is like stopping drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to drive.

January 19, 2022, 03:05 PM	#2
WyMark Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 647	Thanks, that was an interesting and informative discussion.

January 20, 2022, 09:05 AM	#3
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	drive a old ford pinto stick shift and never worry about it. a 5 minute delay kill switch may be the answer, that would need to be reset under the hood.

January 20, 2022, 05:08 PM	#6
Ukrainitz Member Join Date: December 6, 2020 Location: Western PA Posts: 29	Had a Ford Pinto. Always left unlocked with key in ignition. No takers. One time someone left Cleveland Browns season tickets on dash.

January 20, 2022, 05:50 PM	#7
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	Refers tp grand theft auto. Different animal.

January 21, 2022, 03:25 AM	#12
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Just a quick recap. It's about a 22 minute video of a discussion of a carjacking of a Rideshare driver. It includes the dash cam video of the actual carjacking and the video quality is very good. Spoiler alert: no shots are fired. There is some legal information from a lawyer too. IMhO it's a very worth while video to watch. Thanks for posting the link.

January 21, 2022, 06:12 PM	#14
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	If the victim]is approached before entering the car or after getting out of it, something has likely gone wrong--and the best response is probably compliance. In the case at hand, the perp entered the car with the victim in it. That presents a tougher choice.

January 22, 2022, 09:04 AM	#15
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	Once the bad guy(s) present a weapon all bets are off, the danger is too great for anything but deadly force. Best, Rob

January 23, 2022, 05:08 PM	#17
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	Agreed, in a legal sense you are green lighted almost anywhere. Tactically, seeing a weapon sooner is better. Best, Rob

January 24, 2022, 01:09 PM	#21
Bentonville Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2002 Location: NC Posts: 345	Great interview. Professionally and thoughtfully done . Thanks for posting .