.223 best bang for the buck

[Ricklin]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

I can kind of agree with iron sights but not manual transmissions.

Hey it is todays theft prevention device, manual transmission that is.

[Adventurer 2]

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_...t+action+rifle

There is a rebate also -- get it for less than $500.

[Adventurer 2]

That 223 is sold out because it was an amazing deal. CZ 600 Lux 223 for less than $440 -- i'm glad it sold out as i was very tempted to buy a rifle i have no need for (own several 223s now).

[Swifty Morgan]

I have a Savage 93R in .17 HMR. If you want to be able to hit squirrels at reasonable distances, consistently, it will work. But I don't believe it's a precision weapon by any means. Or rather, it is, but there is no precision ammunition that will make it live up to its potential.

The ammunition is not consistent. A lot of people claim it is, based on three-shot groups and lucky shots, but it's not. If you give a kid a .17 HMR rifle in hopes he will be able to shoot 1 MOA or less some day, you are setting him up for frustration.

I bought a ton of .17 HMR ammunition before I found out it was useless for serious rifle practice. I would get a fantastic group or two, and I'd think I had "fixed" whatever was making the rifle inaccurate. I eventually went over to Snipers Hide and found out it was the caliber, not me. I guess I should sell most of it.

People who claim to be knowledgeable say all .17 HMR is made by CCI in the same factory. Can't tell you whether it's true. Some say Winchester makes some of it.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Swifty Morgan

I have a Savage 93R in .17 HMR. If you want to be able to hit squirrels at reasonable distances, consistently, it will work. But I don't believe it's a precision weapon by any means. Or rather, it is, but there is no precision ammunition that will make it live up to its potential.

The ammunition is not consistent. A lot of people claim it is, based on three-shot groups and lucky shots, but it's not. If you give a kid a .17 HMR rifle in hopes he will be able to shoot 1 MOA or less some day, you are setting him up for frustration.

I bought a ton of .17 HMR ammunition before I found out it was useless for serious rifle practice. I would get a fantastic group or two, and I'd think I had "fixed" whatever was making the rifle inaccurate. I eventually went over to Snipers Hide and found out it was the caliber, not me. I guess I should sell most of it.

People who claim to be knowledgeable say all .17 HMR is made by CCI in the same factory. Can't tell you whether it's true. Some say Winchester makes some of it.

Interesting, I have this rifle and have had the exact opposite experience with it. It shoots fantastic with CCI and Hornady ammo but the two boxes of Winchester were terrible. I’ve put about 500+ rounds through it so far with consistent results.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Adventure 2

That 223 is sold out because it was an amazing deal. CZ 600 Lux 223 for less than $440 -- i'm glad it sold out as i was very tempted to buy a rifle i have no need for (own several 223s now).

That is/was a good deal. However, with a 14.6" LOP a horrible rifle for an 8 year old to start with. I don't know if there is a replacement stock available for a guy to fit it to youth shooter.

[Shadow9mm]

What did you decide on? My vote is the savage. More aftermarket stuff and easier to get a replacement barrel for. Cz makes a fine rifle, but you better be ready to pay a smith for custom work if you want things done later on.

[Pumpkin]

Maybe I’m just getting old but other than recoil pads and bedding the actions what customization would need to be done?

As far as the new CZ, I think the bean counters went way overboard with the wooden bolt handle, what a stark contrast to the old 527.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

Maybe I’m just getting old but other than recoil pads and bedding the actions what customization would need to be done?

As far as the new CZ, I think the bean counters went way overboard with the wooden bolt handle, what a stark contrast to the old 527.

My thinking was 5, 10 or even 20 years down the line. A new stock, chassis, or especially barrel can breathe life into an old rifle. Make it practical to invest into instead of buying a new budget rifle because its cheaper than having the barrel replaced. I prefer to keep rifles in the field and not worry about them wearing out and becoming a historical artifact in the back of my gun safe.

[1972RedNeck]

What did you decide on?

Likely the 110 Hog Hunter. We'll see what black Friday brings.

[snoeproe]

All my kids started with the 22LR. Last thing you want to do is scare an 8 yr old. Regardless of how manly you think your 8 yr old nephew is, if you scare him at this age, he might never want to shoot again. Once he spends a season/year getting comfortable with a 22, then upgrade to a higher powered rifle. Small, safe steps.
The bolts on those savage axis rifles are so stiff, an 8 yr old will hardly be able to lift/open it.

[Erno86]

If you can find one for sale:

I suggest the Henry Long Ranger lever action rifle with iron sights in 223/5.56 NATO, retrofitted with a rear peep or ghost ring iron sight.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by snoeproe

All my kids started with the 22LR. Last thing you want to do is scare an 8 yr old. Regardless of how manly you think your 8 yr old nephew is, if you scare him at this age, he might never want to shoot again. Once he spends a season/year getting comfortable with a 22, then upgrade to a higher powered rifle. Small, safe steps.
The bolts on those savage axis rifles are so stiff, an 8 yr old will hardly be able to lift/open it.

You clearly seem to be referencing post #11, I suggest you re-read it, the OP states that he has already learned to shoot a 22, but that 22 is somewhat of a family heirloom and the OP is wanting to get him a rifle that can be just his rifle as a step up from the 22.

[Pumpkin]

Just because you give a .223 to an 8 year old doesn’t mean you just turn them loose in the woods unsupervised.

And, if they need a hand cycling the action, at first, is that such a bad thing?

[Ricklin]

Don't start an 8 YO with a high powered rifle. That's foolish IMO. CZ, Ruger and others I am sure both have very nice accurate bolt action rimfire rifles, youth stocks are also available. The bolt action can be single shot, then graduate him to the magazine. Too much gun for an 8 YO IMO.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Ricklin

Don't start an 8 YO with a high powered rifle. That's foolish IMO. CZ, Ruger and others I am sure both have very nice accurate bolt action rimfire rifles, youth stocks are also available. The bolt action can be single shot, then graduate him to the magazine. Too much gun for an 8 YO IMO.

Read post #11. He has already learned to shoot on the families single shot 22. The OP wants to get the boy a rifle that will be his own, and a step up from the families shared heirloom 22.

"Learned on the family Winchester single shot .22 LR. Rifle my Dad learned on, rifle myself and brothers learned on etc. .22 LR is available, just not "his".'

[stagpanther]

The ammunition is not consistent. A lot of people claim it is, based on three-shot groups and lucky shots, but it's not. If you give a kid a .17 HMR rifle in hopes he will be able to shoot 1 MOA or less some day, you are setting him up for frustration.

Don't know about that--I dragged this out of the safe having not shot it in a long time and honestly-for-real all I did was clean it and put a few rounds through it to foul the bore a touch and zero the scope. Obviously at longer distances that might degrade depending on conditions and bullet.

[bigalshootmupper]

I suggest a heavy short barrel bolt action 223 rifle, such as Ruger Ranch, Howa, or Remington SPS. I really like my Remington 308 SPS tactical 20 in bull barrel rifle. For me it is very pleasant to shoot. I image the same rifle in 223 would be easy shoot for an experienced young'n. I have a 9 year old daughter and I have only had her shoot a pellet gun. I will later let her shoot the 22lr. But I plan to advance her to shooting a 6mm Rem with some lighter reloads for deer hunting. Recoil, if not painful or leaving a bruise, is easy to get used to. You just have to start out light and work up until it is nothing, as long as no pain or bruising. And this is coming from one who think the 6.5 Carcano in a carbine is too much.

[Picher]

I started handloading for my 30-06 deer rifle when I was about 15 and used both the handloads and my Savage 110, 30-06 for woodchuck hunting and subsequent deer hunting, using rounds I loaded along with a good "older" buddy named Alex, who worked at Dakins Sporting Goods in Waterville, Maine. It wasn't long before I got my own reloading equipment, which consisted of a C/H, "H" press and 30-06 dies. The Savage '06 got several varmints and finally, a deer, after mounting a Weaver 2.5X scope and glass-bedding the action and about 6" of the barrel, in an after-market "80% finished" Bishop stock, which turned out to be only about 40% finished before I took-over and changed it "for the better". The rifle, with its "passable" 2.5X Weaver, turned out to be a 1/moa rifle.

I glass-bedded the Savage action and about 6-inches of the barrel, floating the remainder of the barrel, and it became a very accurate piece that killed many woodchucks over 200 yards, and several deer!

[taylorce1]

I suggest a heavy short barrel bolt action 223 rifle, such as Ruger Ranch

The Ruger American Ranch rifle is the lightest option out of all the American models. It doesn't have a heavy barrel. I'm also assuming you weren't talking the Mini 14 Ranch version which is around 2 lbs heavier than the American.

[snoeproe]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

You clearly seem to be referencing post #11, I suggest you re-read it, the OP states that he has already learned to shoot a 22, but that 22 is somewhat of a family heirloom and the OP is wanting to get him a rifle that can be just his rifle as a step up from the 22.

Go ahead and scare the 8 yr old with a high powered rifle then. That’s a great way to ensure he will never want to shoot a firearm again.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by snoeproe

Go ahead and scare the 8 yr old with a high powered rifle then. That’s a great way to ensure he will never want to shoot a firearm again.

223 is NOT a "high powered" rifle cartridge, its intermediate at best. Personally I think its a great next step from the 22lr, the rifle itself it fairly light and handy, especially with iron sights, and the 223 has notoriously light recoil, sure its louder, but that's what ear protection is for.

You yourself said start them with a 22. Well they have ALREADY started with a 22, and are already comfortable with a 22. What would you recommend as a step up into the centerfire arena?

[603Country]

I wouldn’t give an 8 year old a 223. No way. Get him a 22 Mag or maybe a 22 Hornet.

[paknheat]

I like that .22 Hornet idea.


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[stagpanther]

I know I'll catch heat for saying this, but I've seen this in other families that have a tradition of raising children as hunters and shooters. I totally agree that the tendency for most people is to introduce young boys and girls to "too much gun too fast" which often can scare them about shooting; seen it happen many times. BUT--I have also seen some kids that as a result of being acculturated to hunting and shooting almost from the time they were born that did not have an ingrained fear/flinch reaction to big bangs and recoil. I've seen them take to cartridges like weatherby magnums at young ages. And they were good, hitting their game and bringing them down with one-shot kills. I think this is the exception, not common, but it does happen and for that reason I would be hesitant to make a blanket statement about caliber appropriateness.