Handloading .38/.357

[GunSton9]

Questions from someone who is just starting to handload:

Why are some dies just for .38 but others do .38 and .357mag? .357mag is same diameter, just a little longer.

Several people have told me RCBS presses are better than Lee, but what about dies -- are the different brands comparable when it comes to dies?

Do I really need a tumbler cleaner?

Thanks--

[Mike38]

Do I really need a tumbler cleaner?

Most people would say yes you do. Me, I've been reloading close to 20 years and have never owned a tumbler. I wipe the big chunks of "stuff" off the outside of the case and reload them. If the cases get excessive dirt / mud / sand on them, I wash them in dish soap and water. The way I see it, a hole in the x-ring doesn't care if the brass was bright and shinny.

[saudst]

Hello, I have not seen dies just for 38 sp. for years. If I had the choice, I would get the 38 sp. /357 mag. dies, you may load for them both some day. Here in the mid west I'll pay around $30 for a set of standard caliber dies. you get what you pay for generally.

I recommend a tumbler of some kind. It's easier than cleaning individually and gets all the dirt off so it's not wearing on your dies. Just works for me.Welcome to the forum. Did you read the sticky at the top, it may help. Tim.

[Reloadron]

Questions from someone who is just starting to handload:

Why are some dies just for .38 but others do .38 and .357mag? .357mag is same diameter, just a little longer.

Several people have told me RCBS presses are better than Lee, but what about dies -- are the different brands comparable when it comes to dies?

Do I really need a tumbler cleaner?

Dies made for loading 357 Magnum and 38 Special generally include a spacer for use when loading 357 Magnum. If for example we look at the Maximum cartridge dimensions for The 38 Special and then The 357 Magnum. While the case mouth dimensions are the same the only difference is the case length. Dies used for both normally include a 0.125" spacer.

People were reloading brass long before ways to clean it became popular. That was pointed out. Do you need a tumbler to clean your brass? No not really but it can be a nice to have for many.

As to RCBS Vs. Lee? They are both good product lines and for most applications get the job done. I have a RCBS old Rockchucker press as well as an old Lee "O" press and both are very good single stage presses. The same can be said for dies, I have and use both.

Ron

[Slamfire]

Several people have told me RCBS presses are better than Lee, but what about dies -- are the different brands comparable when it comes to dies?

RCBS presses are heavy duty and priced accordingly. I sold my Rockchuker for a T-Mag Turret press, then purchased a Redding T-7. The guy who bought my Rockchuker is still using it, and it was decades old when he bought it. Lee presses are made to the low end price point and work well.

As for the dies, I like Lee dies in my Dillion 550B. The decapping spindle does not work loose and wobble. The spindle is hard to break but it can be done. I was loading 9mm today, used a Lee sizing die, seating die, and a Hornady taper crimp die.

I would have to look at my 38 Special turret to see what is on there. Might be RCBS because that was an early caliber of mine and that is what I typically used before I got a progressive.

Regardless of die brand, my ammunition goes in the middle if I do my part.

[reddog81]

The RCBS Rockchucker is a heavy duty piece of equipment. I'm not sure what the Lee presses are made of but they are probably good enough for most applications just not as tough as RCBS

The Lee carbide sizing dies work OK. I have replaced most of my Lee expanding dies with RCBS dies. I strongly dislike the Lee powder through expanding dies. I use a combination of seating dies depending on the bullet profile. Lee die sets will work and they are good basic kits but they are far from perfect.

[Mobuck]

Rather than use a 38 SP die to "partially" size 357 brass, I use a 357 die to FULLY size both. For 38, I bought a cheap set ( quite a while back) of steel (no carbide insert in the sizer-which I promptly tossed in the parts box) 38 SP dies to expand and seat the Spec loads.
A case tumbler was one of the best buys I've made-right behind the chronograph.

[reddog81]

A tumbler is not necessary unless you need the brass to look shiny. Hot soapy water will work just fine. The only downside in my opinion is the time it takes to dry

Any 38 special dies will work for 38 or .357. There might be some .357 dies that won't work for 38 special. The sizing dies are not the problem, the expander and seating dies might not be able to reach the shorter brass.

[Chainsaw.]

I would agree that rcbs put a little more refinement into their products, but dont take that to mean lee is straight up junk. They make good solid stuff, just more economical. I do HEAR lees progressives can be a little nuanced.

As far as dies I have both and like both. If you go lee get the carbide option if available. IMO.

[Nick_C_S]

Welcome to TFL Gunston9.

Why are some dies just for .38 but others do .38 and .357mag?

Every 38/357 die set I've ever seen will load both - and even 357 MaXimum. Maybe really old sets weren't made for Magnum? I don't know. At any rate, I there's no need to put a lot of thought into this. These days, when you buy a 38/357 die set, you get just that.

Several people have told me RCBS presses are better than Lee, but what about dies -- are the different brands comparable when it comes to dies?

I bought my first press in 1984 and it was an RCBS "Reloader Special 2." I think they're up to Reloader Special 5 now . Anyway, I still have that press and still use it. It was my only press until a little over a year ago - when I went with a Dillon progressive for my large quantity jobs. My old RCBS RS2 is a great press and should outlive me.

As for dies, I use all RCBS - except, I do use Lee dies for some crimping operations (long story there). Bottom line: Lee dies are more economical, and probably work just fine. I spend a lot of time here on TFL; and a lot of posters speak highly of Lee dies. I have however heard a lot of people not speak highly of Lee progressive presses. That said, I haven't heard similar unpleasantries about their single stage or turrets.

Do I really need a tumbler cleaner?

No. I went without for a couple decades. I just cleaned them in a bucket of dish soap n water. But they don't come out pretty. At any rate, a tumbler is not a necessary piece of equipment when just starting out.

What IS a necessary piece of equipment is a reputable manual on the basics of ammunition loading. Do you have one of those? Often recommended include Speer, Hornady, and/or Lyman. It's important to read up before getting started.

Which leads to more questions: Where are you in the world of handloading? Just thinking about it? Committed? What calibers are you planning on loading (38 Special and/or 357 Magnum, evidently )? For what purpose? These are all things we'd like to know in order to answer your additional questions in more detail and direction.

Again, welcome aboard.

[Reloader270]

I have Lee Die Sets in carbide and they work fine. With RCBS you pay a little bit more, but it does the same job. When buying second hand rather go for the RCBS at the price of a new Lee Die Set. Regarding presses the RCBS is a stonger press and would last you a lifetime. The Lee will do the job, but it is more prone to breaking the arm mechanism. Never heard of a RCBS that broke.

[Powermwt]

You brought me out on this topic... ;^)

Back when I was in college in the early 1970s Lee had a Loader that you used with a hammer for cheap... I see they are about $40 now, complete. I pounded out .357 and .38 all the way until I got married in 1978 and started using a Lyman ST Turrent press. I still have that and it works great so Lyman may be worth looking at. As other reloaders I wanted more so I got A RCBS Ammomaster Progressive press and it still works fine what, 30 some years later.

Just ease into the reloading hobby and get a feel of what works for you!

[Reloadron]

You brought me out on this topic... ;^)

Back when I was in college in the early 1970s Lee had a Loader that you used with a hammer for cheap... I see they are about $40 now, complete. I pounded out .357 and .38 all the way until I got married in 1978 and started using a Lyman ST Turrent press. I still have that and it works great so Lyman may be worth looking at. As other reloaders I wanted more so I got A RCBS Ammomaster Progressive press and it still works fine what, 30 some years later.

Just ease into the reloading hobby and get a feel of what works for you!

Reloading With the Old Whack-a-mole Lee Classic Loader.

Who could ever forget the classic Lee Whack A Mole.

Ron

[Minorcan]

OK, now since it's true confession time, I admit I started reloading 45 LC with a Lee Hand Loader. I still have it but reload now with a press. I don't have a tumbler, too noisy for too long. I use a Sonic Cleaner when I need to. My 38/357 die set does both, mostly 357 though since the 38 are cheap enough and I don't shoot it that much.

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

I use RCBS taper crimp 3 die set for 38 spl/357 mag reloadings and Hornady 3 die set taper crimp for 9mm Luger. Both are carbide sets. I use T mag Lyman turret press (6 holes for both calibers).

I reaload cast bullets and the difference in 38 spl/357 mag is:
Resizing/depriming die: same adjustment for both calibers.
Expander die: adjust it for 38 spl. If used 357 Magnum just expand the case "one by one by Feeling" since the 357 case is longer you will not pull down completely the handle.
Seater/crimp (taper crimp) die: seating adjustment is same for both. Adjust for 38 spl and if using 357 mag cases as in Expander die you will not pull the Handle completely down. Just pull the handle Down "by feel" till it stops. The bullets is seated equal for both calibers but crimp is different.

I seat the bullet as an wadcutter so it disappears completely in the case in order to save powder. The heavier your bullet is and the deeper you seat it the less powder you Need. As now it is an 9mm Luger in an 38 spl case (empty airspace and powder charge for 9mm Luger is the same as in These deep seated 38 spl cases so it is essentially an 9mm Luger in an 38 spl case). Same power as 9mm Luger.

[reddog81]

Theguyofsouthamerica, A .38 special case with the same power as a 9mm round could lead to some problems real quickly if your shooting those off in a 38 special.

[FITASC]

I bought my first press in 1984 and it was an RCBS "Reloader Special 2."

I think I bought mine in 1982 - still use it for all my metallic.

As to a tumbler; one thing is this, clean brass reloads easier in the dies, especially with carbide dies. I prefer RCBS, as well as Forster and Redding. Lee is ~OK~- and for 38 are they decent enough? Sure.

With my single stage, I do reloading in batches - deprime, resize and reprime on the press with the first die. Second step is flare, drop powder and seat bullet/crimp. Unless you are shooting a lot of pistol, this method works well for 100-200 at a time

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

reddog81,

I shoot those in 357 Magnum SAA Revolver.

[g.willikers]

I have an old set of dies for .38 special only.
Once upon a time, long, long ago, believe it or not, the .357 was just a gleam in someone's eye.
I also vote for not needing a tumbler.
A good cleaning of brass more than suffices for the less pristine minded among us.
As for the quality of dies, I've not noticed any real world differences in the various manufacturers.
Maybe if you are loading for long distance precision shooting there might be.

[TimSr]

Most dies today are for both. Get a set that does both. Most pistol dies today are carbide or titanium, and don't require lube. Get some.

Brand name is mostly a matter of preference. Lee equipment usually costs less. I personally prefer paying extra for Hornady, Lyman, or RCBS. Others will disagree. I highly doubt you'll ever wear out anybody's press or dies in your lifetime.

You don't need a tumbler. You will almost certainly want one at some point, just to admire how much your ammo looks like factory new, but there is no hurry.

[Mauser69]

This thread is the most perfect example of how so much of the crappola you read, even in these forums, is just that - total crappola. And it REALLY illustrates why any new reloader MUST have good manuals and READ them; otherwise, you have absolutely no way to see the crappola for what it is.

Some (a LOT) of what you get posted is just personal opinion - not fact at all. Each person is totally allowed to have any opinion they desire, and to share it freely. If they give you reasons behind their opinion, you are on the way to being able to decide if you want to share that opinion or laugh at it - your choice.

My OPINION is that RCBS makes excellent equipment, but it is GENERALLY NOT any better than other name brands. I actually think Lee dies are much better, especially for straight-walled cases. Several reasons: the "unbreakable" decapping pin, the powder-thru expander and the floating bullet seating plug.

A cast-iron "O" press made by RCBS (e.g. Rock Chucker) is absolutely no better than the same type of press from Lee, Lyman or others, unless there is something about the way one handles spent primers that you like better than the others. I would never buy an aluminum press or "C" press from any brand.

RCBS DOES generally have better warranty and customer service than any other brand. That is worth something - you decide how much.

Finally, in my opinion, any case tumbler/cleaner (other than a simple rag) is the absolute LAST thing you should waste any money on - you do NOT need it.

And then there are the real facts, and when some bonehead blows the facts and feeds you wrong information, well, depending on the specifics of the issue, that can actually be dangerous. You MUST know enough to see where some "fact" you read in a forum might just be wrong, and know where to go to research it for yourself.

Here is a FACT about .38/.357 dies (and .44 Spl/.44 Mag, etc.): Any die set made for the shorter case (the .38 Spl) WILL work 100% perfectly to load the longer magnum calibers too, no matter how they are labeled. No spacer is ever needed to compensate for the longer caliber, you simply have to read the instructions and adjust the dies correctly! The resizer die is almost always the EXACT same part number as the resizer in the magnum sets, and it ABSOLUTELY resizes the shorter case EXACTLY like the longer case. Anyone who understands that the resizing is done by the little carbide ring at the bottom of the die would know that.

Now the other related FACT is that if you have a die set labeled ONLY for the magnum or longer caliber (.357, .44, .454 Casull, etc), then the expander die and the bullet seating die probably CANNOT be used to load any caliber with a shorter case. In the case of the expander, they die body may be too long for the expander plug to properly reach the case mouth (but probably not). The real issue is that the crimping ledge inside the bullet seat/crimp die will not go far enough down to touch the case mouth.

Many manufacturers only sell one set of dies for these related calibers, and they are labeled as such. But others, such as Lee, DO still sell dies made ONLY for the magnum calibers. So it pays for you to actually do some research on the manufacturer's web site before spending you money.

[FM12]

Ebay can save you on used stuff, but only if you really know what you want and need.

[rodfac]

Mauser 98, that's as good a summary of reloading advice I've read in quite a while. Well done sir. Rod

[T. O'Heir]

"...really need a tumbler cleaner..." Nope, but you need a way of cleaning your brass. That can be a tumbler, a vibrating machine, wet cleaning(dry 'em on a cookie sheet in your oven set at warm for 15 minutes.)or even Mauser69's simple rag and a bit of regular firearm cleaning solvent.
Lot more options out there these days. However, a tumbler is likely the easiest to come by for reasonable money. Brass absolutely does not need to be shiney. Just clean.
Haven't loaded .38 Special in .38 Special cases for eons myself(.38 Special data in .357 cases only for 35 + years or so.), but the die set I bought long, long ago was a .38/.357 set. Redding or RCBS, forget which. Anyway, it came with the steel spacer(washer with a big hole). Don't know if die sets even come with a spacer any more.
Buying used kit isn't a bad thing, but if you opt for used buy only RCBS. Their warrantee is on the kit, not who bought it new. Have any issues and they'll fix it with a phone call or e-mail. That applies to Dillon kit as well. Rest of 'em it seems to depend on who you talk to at their customer service. Written warrantees from all but RCBS do not cover used kit.
And read your manual.

[mikld]

Well, I had a reply all set up but then I read Mauser 69's post. Can't add much to that. My suggestion is to get a copy of The ABCs of Reloading, which will explain the "how to" for reloading and what the equipment is needed. Also describes types of tooling, like dies and types of crimps. Add a Lyman's 50th Edition Reloading Handbook, for the "how to" section along with load data.

I reloaded 12 years before I got a tumbler, half outta curiosity. I merely wiped each case with a solvent dampened rag as I inspected it (first step for reloading; visual inspection of brass to be reloaded). I had no scratched dies and yep, I could find any defects, and shiny brass does not shoot nor reload any better. IMO, tumbling brass is 90% cosmetic. If I wanted some BBQ ammo, I'd polish the cases on a mandrel chucked into a drill...

When asking about reloading equipment 99.9% of the answers will be opinion only, and most reloaders are pretty opinionated. A single stage reloading press is a very simple machine and I don't know of any of the major manufacturers making a "bad" press (but beware of Smart Reloader stuff).