.54 Pistol Cartridges

[maillemaker]

I am going to 'speriment with papers and balls. I'd like to use the .520" ball, but I'm not sure I'll find a paper thin enough yet strong enough for them.

Try the general purpose masking paper from Lowes or Home Depot. It's about .002" thick so with a .520 ball would end up being .524, which should be fine in a .54 bore.

Steve

[Model12Win]

Awesome, I will swing by the Home Depot in town and buy some. Is the appearance of said paper authentic? Were the paper cartridges brown in color?

[mehavey]

Charge of powder for Pistol is 130 charges to a pound.
1/130th of a pound equals 54 grains.

Given my rule-of-thumb being starting RB charge is caliber, that's about right.

[Model12Win]

Very nice, thanks guys.

But is the masking paper from Home Depot going to be too "brown" in color? Will it look authentic?

[maillemaker]

Is the appearance of said paper authentic? Were the paper cartridges brown in color?

I believe so. Now there are some who will claim that the US cartridges were made using bleached paper that just browned over the years, but I do not think so. British Enfield cartridges of the period are still quite white, and they were specified to be made from White Fine paper.

I do vaguely remember some sources calling out different colors of paper for different types of ammunition but I can't remember the details. I think blanks may have had a special color paper, and the Williams Cleaner bullets were sometimes wrapped in a different color. Here is one:

http://westcoastcwc.com/images/store...0Cartridge.jpg

Here are some cartridges claimed to be originals:

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/8476744
http://midtenrelics.com/Thumbnail/crtrdge.JPG
http://midtenrelics.com/bullets/58calwrap.JPG
http://midtenrelics.com/bullets/69ballcart.JPG
http://midtenrelics.com/artillery/58calmbcart.JPG
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...c138192caf.jpg
http://www.westcoastcwc.com/cgi-bin/...b=64&start=291

Here is one with the original wrapper:
http://www.picketpost.com/images/cartridgeStLouis.jpg

Notice the color of the wrapping paper also.

Here is a (claimed) original .54 caliber pistol cartridge:
http://midtenrelics.com/Thumbnail/cartridge.JPG

As you can see all of these cartridges have a tan color to them. The Lowes/Home Depot paper, while perhaps a trifle darker, I think looks very similar.

I think most cartridges were made out of plain brown paper, kind of like paper bags at the grocery store used to be.

Steve

[Model12Win]

Very interesting, I will probably get a roll from Home Depot and try it with the .520" balls. I am also going to try some of the Duck brand packing paper, as I like the way it looks and it seems nice and thin. I also will be using the linen thread, 18/3 ply, that you recommended. I think the Wal-Mart polyester stuff I used wasn't so good, it was quite weak and broke easily.

The other day at the range, I was able to shoot of most of the cartridges I made by first cutting the strings off them. I'd tear the paper with my teeth, dump the powder down the bore, squeeze the ball out of the paper and use the paper as a wad on top the ball. It worked pretty well, and is very fun to do!! I also found out the brass back piece of my ramrod is sharp! I'll have to knock back the edge a bit with some sand paper.

Once I get the right "recipe" down pat, I will be overjoyed to load my pistol in the historic manner. It should also increase rate of fire significantly, which is not necessary but will be fun for just plinking down in the creek back home and when casually shooting.

[bedbugbilly]

I have really enjoyed reading the posts on this pistol and your adventures with it! It certainly is an interesting reproduction and sort of makes a person want one!

[Model12Win]

I have really enjoyed reading the posts on this pistol and your adventures with it! It certainly is an interesting reproduction and sort of makes a person want one!

Thanks for coming along for the ride! I've got many plans for this gun, and will be sure to keep everyone updated.

[Model12Win]

Hey everyone!

Hope you all had a great Christmas, and I hope the coming new year will be a great time for you.

I just made a batch of improved paper cartridges for my Harpers Ferry M1807 percussion conversion .54 caliber horse pistol. Here they are!



I originally didn't have much luck because the ball diameter/paper thickness ratio wasn't correct on the original dozen cartridges I made. So, by doing more research and reading the replies here, I decided to try a combination of .520" cast lead balls, Duck brand packing paper, and .6mm thick linen thread (thanks for the tip maillemaker!). The resulting formula fit perfectly down by bore, and the complete cartridge measures exactly .540" + or - .002".

I made 21 cartridges in total. I will be hitting the range hopefully this weekend, and will be sure to report back with an accuracy test vs. my normal patched round ball load.

Thanks so much for the help everyone, I really appreciate it!!

[maillemaker]

Very cool, looks just like originals to me!

Steve

[Model12Win]

Very cool, looks just like originals to me!

Steve

Great! I can't wait to test these. I'm just glad they fit down the bore. I noticed that on the tip of my ramrod it is concave and quite sharp above the threaded hole. I ordered the proper size round head brass screw and will screw it in to provide a nice rounded and smooth head for loading purposes.

I will keep everyone updated on the progress of this project. Hopefully, I can hit the range this weekend. It's getting mighty cold though, so we'll see! I also plan to film a first person loading sequence using the cartridges. That should be fun!

[Model12Win]

I made a few more cartridges up earlier today:



It is actually pretty relaxing to make these. I like it!

[Hawg]

Glad you find it so.

[Model12Win]

Okay gang, range report!

FAILURE!!

I had some major issues!! Okay... so I was using the .520" balls and the Duck packing paper. At home, the cartridges would slide down the barrel with mild hand pressure on the ramrod. They seemed about ideal.

But, at the range, the bore fouled after the first shot and I could no longer push the cartridge down the barrel with my pistol's ramrod. So, I had to use my much larger ball ended range ramrod. This worked okay for the next 4 rounds, but when I went to ram down the 5th... the ball would not go! I tried with all my might, but that ball was STUCK!!

But, that's not even the worst part. I actually somehow managed to crack the head off my range rod!! I was using a wooden pistol loading rod from Track of the Wolf with ball starter on one end, and a .54 cal concave jag made for round ball loading. So now my range rod went down and the ball was hopelessly stuck. So, after removing the nipple and draining the powder, me and the range officer were able to get the ball out after a huge ordeal.

So needless to say, back to the drawing board! It appears the fouling got so bad so quick it made it impossible to load and the ball and paper totally wedged in the fouling.

So, I've got some .509" balls... a lot smaller than the .520" balls. I am going to try those next. As far as paper goes, the Duck packing paper is very thin and somewhat fragile so I really don't think I can get much thinner paper that won't tear on me before loading.

So aside from trying the .509 balls next, am I supposed to be lubricating these cartridges? I see no mention of having to do that, but it seems to me that lubricating these would possible help with the fouling issues. But, I didn't think the military used lubricated cartridges in smoothbores?

Can somebody please help me!? I'm so upset I just... I just don't know what to do!

[Branko]

I think they did lubricate the catridges even for smoothbores. Dipping the bullet end of it in some sort of fat. Anyway, that should solve the problem.

[maillemaker]

I'm fairly certain that period round ball ammunition of this style was not lubricated. I do remember reading about some leather lubricated patches that were installed around British round ball ammunition.

Steve

[Model12Win]

Thanks guys, I'll have to admit I was sad after all of this happened.

I am going to try the smaller .509" balls next. If those have the same problem, I'm not sure what do except go to even smaller .500" balls.

I did do some calculating. It appears that .69 caliber musket cartridges were loaded with .65 balls. By doing the math, I found out that for a direct correlation to my smaller bore I should in fact be using exactly .509" balls!

Maybe my balls were too big all along.

I'll have to try it and see. I just got done buying a "super pistol rod" from Dixie Gun Works. Hopefully it will prove more durable than the wood one from Track of the Wolf.

[Model12Win]

So does anyone out there know if these cartridges should be lubed, and if so, how?

[4V50 Gary]

I wouldn't lube the cartridge. Hot days the lube can compromise the powder. At most lightly lube the balls and stick with the smaller balls.

BTW, great looking cartridges.

[Model12Win]

Thanks Gary! I am going to make some more cartridges using a smaller diameter mandrel, the .509" balls, and probably a reduced 45 grain powder charge to cut down on residue. I think 45 grains is plenty enough for target shooting and 54 grains felt very hot. I'll also be sure to tie the double half hitches between the powder chamber and ball tighter so the threading doesn't jam. Then, every five shots or so, a spit patch or two should keep things running smoothly.

[maillemaker]

The documentation I provided above indicates a ball diameter of .525" for a .54 caliber pistol.

With .002" of paper on either side of the ball, that works out to .529" total diameter. Allow a little bit for the wrinkles in the paper and you've got perhaps .530-.535.

This should load easily on a clean barrel.

It may be that these guns were not intended for repeated reloading in one session, but more of a single-shot affair, but I don't know this for certain.

What kind of powder are you using? Edit: From your picture, it looks like you are using Goex. Should be OK with that. I found Shuetzen to be very dirty.

Steve

[Hawg]

I found one site that said the part of the cartridge with the ball was lightly greased but they also said that accuracy was not an issue when those cartridges were actually used.

[maillemaker]

The only paper cartridge that I am familiar with that has lubrication applied to the paper is the British Enfield cartridge for rifled arms.

Steve

[Model12Win]

Interesting guys. Well the paper I am using is newsprint minus the print, it is very thin. The gun hopelessly jammed while loading the 6th round. I believe that the string needs to be factored into the equation for thickness, maybe not.

So... Does anyone know how many shots a smoothbore musket like a Brown Bess or 1842 Springfield should be able to fire without becoming impossible to load? Seems like if the cartridges are properly sized for the pistol, it shouldn't jam in just 6 shots.

I also should mention that even on the 2nd shot, it was already too stiff to load with my pistols ramrod... I am so confused!! How hard should the ball me to load on the first shot? Should it be very loose?

I am also using the historically correct 130th of 1 lb of powder for a charge, which equals 54 grains, 2FG GOEX. Is that too much? Do you think that is causing too much powder fouling?

Thanks for helping me troubleshoot this guys, I am just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can finally get the formula for these cartridges right.

[maillemaker]

I believe that the string needs to be factored into the equation for thickness, maybe not.

Hmm, that's true, I forgot about the string.

I've never fired smoothbore arms using period ammunition so I can't speak much to how many shots you can expect to get off.

In N-SSA competition I shoot my .69 smothbore with a .678 round ball rolled beetween two files and triple-coated in Lee Alox. It's a tight enough fit to cause a gas piston effect when loading. I know others shoot much smaller balls with great success (better than me).

In our SB competitions it is unlikely that you will shoot more than 10 shots in any course of fire as the events are typically 3 minutes long. I notice towards the end of the course of fire that loading is definitely harder.

It may very well be that you are discovering the inherent limitations of the firearm with period ammunition.

Steve