Need advice on 1951 colt navy

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 07:24 PM

Hey I'm new to the forum, but have been an enthusiast for awhile. I saw this was the best forum to talk guns so here goes...

My mother and I share a safety deposit box and I remembered that last time I went with her in 2005 (I was 21) and I noticed an old gun in the box. It never crossed my mind until just recently when I have really gained interest in guns as far as owning a shooting a lot of them. So I went to the box today out of curiosity to check the gun out. I was hoping for like a 60s-70s s&w or something that I could trade towards a nice sniper rifle. To make a long story short what I found is what I believe to be a genuine real deal 1951 colt navy...from all the pictures I think it's a true original colt. It has beautiful patina and looks awesome. (I couldn't even get the cylinder to slide open, until I realized it don't operate like that lol) anyway my question is what are the markings/characteristics to spot a fake? Also what kind of value/interest are there in this gun if real deal?

Here are some pics of the gun:

Thanks in advance for the help/info...funny think is I was thinking about buying a Mosin-Nagant, I would think there is a little price differenc between the two lol....thanks

noelf2 · March 6, 2012, 08:18 PM

I'm not a pro at spotting a forgery, but if it's the real deal you are off by about 100 years (1851, not 1951).

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 08:26 PM

I must of posted wrong date...sorry bout that lol...you can see the patina and I know that more than 60 years old for sure...what do you think?

Hawg · March 6, 2012, 08:31 PM

Looks the part but somebody put the wedge in upside down.

zullo74 · March 6, 2012, 08:35 PM

The wedge is inserted correctly, but looks like a replacement, as I do not see a spring.

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 08:37 PM

I meant 1851...

Hawg · March 6, 2012, 08:38 PM

Look at the next to last pic.

zullo74 · March 6, 2012, 08:46 PM

That's what I am looking at. The gun is upside down in that view. The lip on the wedge faces the bottom of the gun.

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 08:52 PM

What do you guys mean by wedge, im dumb when it comes to percussion bc i e been spoiled on seni auto handguns...The barrell has the same patina...any other pics I can give you to make it easier for you to tell?

Hawg · March 6, 2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

That's what I am looking at. The gun is upside down in that view. The lip on the wedge faces the bottom of the gun.

Guess I'm just being all around dumb tonite.

pohill · March 6, 2012, 09:51 PM

The nipples are gone. Is the serial number 388XXX? If so it was made between 1854 - 1855.
Does the cylinder rotate when you cock the hammer? The chambers look pretty rusty. How does the bore look? (inside the barrel). Can you get the wedge out? I'm guessing it's pretty well stuck.
The barrel address is good.
Can you take more pics?

sandman_nv · March 6, 2012, 11:08 PM

someone held that in their hands more than 150 years ago.

very nice, looks in pretty good shape.

if authentic, would that piece be valuable as a collector's item?

if not, could it be cleaned up and fired safely?

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 11:14 PM

Are the nipples something that collectors need to have original or did people change them periodically? Do you guys think I should not touch the light rust in the barrell and cylinders? To answer the action is perfect...half and full cocks work good...you can pull the wedge out just by pinching it with fingers...I'm happy to see everything is mechanically perfect in the action...so what do you think real McCoy?

Here are some more pics...

Let me know what you guys think...the rust looks like surface bc this gun has been in safety dePosit box for the last 60-70 years...

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 11:16 PM

IMG]http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/wildcamaro/99d21ea5.jpg[/IMG]

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 11:17 PM

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 11:23 PM

Hey sandman I thought the same thing...it could of been wild bill hicocks you never know...the history is way more interesting to me than the money that's for sure...a 150 years is just amazing to me...I felt like pawn stars or american guns lol...at first I thought it was a dragoon and I was freakin until I measured the bore out to be .36...the look of that decade and half old case hardened patina is just the best finish I have ever seen...anyone have a colt navy to compare mine to yours?

BillM · March 6, 2012, 11:27 PM

Is that cylinder partially loaded?

Fingers McGee · March 6, 2012, 11:35 PM

Well, if I read the serial number right - 38349 - it's a late 3rd model Navy made in 1854.

Wildhipoint · March 6, 2012, 11:46 PM

no its not loaded! lol...its like a side shot of the side of the lightly rusted cylinder...

How is it a late model if they were made til 1873? 1956 is only 5 years after the first one...i know the fourth model had "address sam l colt new york city america" whereas mine doesnt have the america, just new york...

So bottom line is it the real deal? What rating on a scale of 1-10 considering the 150 year old age?

hoof hearted · March 7, 2012, 12:47 AM

Oh heck, just sell or trade it to me.............

I have lots to bargain with!
Really!

Wildhipoint · March 7, 2012, 01:25 AM

what ya got? i am looking for something long range like 500+ yards...also feel free to make on offer publically or privately at [email protected] would at minimum let me see what the market looks like

Hawg · March 7, 2012, 05:14 AM

Wonder why they filed the rear sight off?

Raider2000 · March 7, 2012, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

Wonder why they filed the rear sight off?

It looks more like it was broken off in one of the pictures.

l.cutler · March 7, 2012, 05:57 AM

Did you ask your mother if she knew anything about the history of the gun? It may have some family significance that is worth more than anything you can get out of it.

pohill · March 7, 2012, 07:10 AM

It's not rare and the cylinder is in tough shape. I would remove as much rust as possible to keep it from deteriorating further. That's not a popular thing to do with antiques but...that's my opinion. Or you could leave it as it is and just enjoy it's history, which, if you knew, would make it worth keeping in its current condition. Does your mother know its history?
Other than the cylinder, it doesn't look too bad (needs a new hammer to make it a shooter). I wonder what the internals look like...
I've seen originals with 2nd generation cylinders that fit well. That might be an option if you wanted to shoot it.
So...sell it on gunbroker as is
Clean it up and make it a shooter
Keep it as it is for what it is (researching it can be alot of fun)
Me? I would clean it up and make it a shooter.

For what it's worth...I bought a Mosin Nagant for $99 at Cabellas. I got 440 rounds shipped to my house for about the same. I paid $450 for an original 1851 Navy .36 a few years ago that's in really good shape.

March 6, 2012, 07:24 PM	#1
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	Need advice on 1951 colt navy Hey I'm new to the forum, but have been an enthusiast for awhile. I saw this was the best forum to talk guns so here goes... My mother and I share a safety deposit box and I remembered that last time I went with her in 2005 (I was 21) and I noticed an old gun in the box. It never crossed my mind until just recently when I have really gained interest in guns as far as owning a shooting a lot of them. So I went to the box today out of curiosity to check the gun out. I was hoping for like a 60s-70s s&w or something that I could trade towards a nice sniper rifle. To make a long story short what I found is what I believe to be a genuine real deal 1951 colt navy...from all the pictures I think it's a true original colt. It has beautiful patina and looks awesome. (I couldn't even get the cylinder to slide open, until I realized it don't operate like that lol) anyway my question is what are the markings/characteristics to spot a fake? Also what kind of value/interest are there in this gun if real deal? Here are some pics of the gun: Thanks in advance for the help/info...funny think is I was thinking about buying a Mosin-Nagant, I would think there is a little price differenc between the two lol....thanks

March 6, 2012, 08:18 PM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I'm not a pro at spotting a forgery, but if it's the real deal you are off by about 100 years (1851, not 1951). __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

March 6, 2012, 11:35 PM	#18
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Well, if I read the serial number right - 38349 - it's a late 3rd model Navy made in 1854. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

March 7, 2012, 12:47 AM	#20
hoof hearted Member Join Date: December 21, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 61	Oh heck, just sell or trade it to me............. I have lots to bargain with! Really! __________________ http://www.cartridgeconversion.com https://www.facebook.com/cartridgeconversion/ https://www.facebook.com/thuerconversion/

March 6, 2012, 08:26 PM	#3
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	I must of posted wrong date...sorry bout that lol...you can see the patina and I know that more than 60 years old for sure...what do you think?

March 6, 2012, 08:31 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Looks the part but somebody put the wedge in upside down.

March 6, 2012, 08:35 PM	#5
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	The wedge is inserted correctly, but looks like a replacement, as I do not see a spring.

March 6, 2012, 08:37 PM	#6
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	I meant 1851...

March 6, 2012, 08:38 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Look at the next to last pic.

March 6, 2012, 08:46 PM	#8
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	That's what I am looking at. The gun is upside down in that view. The lip on the wedge faces the bottom of the gun.

March 6, 2012, 08:52 PM	#9
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	What do you guys mean by wedge, im dumb when it comes to percussion bc i e been spoiled on seni auto handguns...The barrell has the same patina...any other pics I can give you to make it easier for you to tell?

March 6, 2012, 09:51 PM	#11
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	The nipples are gone. Is the serial number 388XXX? If so it was made between 1854 - 1855. Does the cylinder rotate when you cock the hammer? The chambers look pretty rusty. How does the bore look? (inside the barrel). Can you get the wedge out? I'm guessing it's pretty well stuck. The barrel address is good. Can you take more pics?

March 6, 2012, 11:08 PM	#12
sandman_nv Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 108	someone held that in their hands more than 150 years ago. very nice, looks in pretty good shape. if authentic, would that piece be valuable as a collector's item? if not, could it be cleaned up and fired safely?

March 6, 2012, 11:14 PM	#13
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	Are the nipples something that collectors need to have original or did people change them periodically? Do you guys think I should not touch the light rust in the barrell and cylinders? To answer the action is perfect...half and full cocks work good...you can pull the wedge out just by pinching it with fingers...I'm happy to see everything is mechanically perfect in the action...so what do you think real McCoy? Here are some more pics... Let me know what you guys think...the rust looks like surface bc this gun has been in safety dePosit box for the last 60-70 years...

March 6, 2012, 11:16 PM	#14
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	IMG]http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/wildcamaro/99d21ea5.jpg[/IMG]

March 6, 2012, 11:17 PM	#15
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34

March 6, 2012, 11:23 PM	#16
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	Hey sandman I thought the same thing...it could of been wild bill hicocks you never know...the history is way more interesting to me than the money that's for sure...a 150 years is just amazing to me...I felt like pawn stars or american guns lol...at first I thought it was a dragoon and I was freakin until I measured the bore out to be .36...the look of that decade and half old case hardened patina is just the best finish I have ever seen...anyone have a colt navy to compare mine to yours?

March 6, 2012, 11:27 PM	#17
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	Is that cylinder partially loaded?

March 6, 2012, 11:46 PM	#19
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	no its not loaded! lol...its like a side shot of the side of the lightly rusted cylinder... How is it a late model if they were made til 1873? 1956 is only 5 years after the first one...i know the fourth model had "address sam l colt new york city america" whereas mine doesnt have the america, just new york... So bottom line is it the real deal? What rating on a scale of 1-10 considering the 150 year old age?

March 7, 2012, 01:25 AM	#21
Wildhipoint Member Join Date: March 6, 2012 Posts: 34	what ya got? i am looking for something long range like 500+ yards...also feel free to make on offer publically or privately at [email protected] would at minimum let me see what the market looks like

March 7, 2012, 05:14 AM	#22
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Wonder why they filed the rear sight off?

March 7, 2012, 05:57 AM	#24
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	Did you ask your mother if she knew anything about the history of the gun? It may have some family significance that is worth more than anything you can get out of it.

March 7, 2012, 07:10 AM	#25
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	It's not rare and the cylinder is in tough shape. I would remove as much rust as possible to keep it from deteriorating further. That's not a popular thing to do with antiques but...that's my opinion. Or you could leave it as it is and just enjoy it's history, which, if you knew, would make it worth keeping in its current condition. Does your mother know its history? Other than the cylinder, it doesn't look too bad (needs a new hammer to make it a shooter). I wonder what the internals look like... I've seen originals with 2nd generation cylinders that fit well. That might be an option if you wanted to shoot it. So...sell it on gunbroker as is Clean it up and make it a shooter Keep it as it is for what it is (researching it can be alot of fun) Me? I would clean it up and make it a shooter. For what it's worth...I bought a Mosin Nagant for $99 at Cabellas. I got 440 rounds shipped to my house for about the same. I paid $450 for an original 1851 Navy .36 a few years ago that's in really good shape.