Dillon 550 drops powder without case in place

lomaxanderson · October 21, 2009, 05:55 PM

...I was loading some 45 acp with bullseye and when I ran out of primers I ran the last 3 rounds out of the turret(seat and crimp)and I noticed that when the empty shell plate was at the powder drop/expander position that it seamed to drop a charge. I called dillon and they are thinking that it is static and possibly the powder keeping the powder bar from closing fully. Now I do not have the failsafe rod hooked up( parts on the way) but I never have . I have the older style powder measures with two springs that wrap around the hopper to the plastic pin. I cannot get it to do it again but I fear I may have something wrong. Has anyone had this happen to them?
I may pull this batch apart and start over (100 rounds) just to be safe...what do you guys think?
Also does powder build up in the powder funnel? Like coating the inside.

Farmland · October 21, 2009, 06:10 PM

I never had any problems. You are sure the powder funnel is touching the shell plate when it is raised activating the powder funnel?

I do clean my powder funnels between loads of around 1,000. I just clean is with rubbing alcohol and pipe cleans, it dries pretty fast.

I use the older powder measure with the two springs and the fail safe rod. it has never failed going on 20 years. In fact I have three of them.

The powder could have bridged in the funnel that is possible with any funnel. Another trick is to use that anti static dry sheet to wipe out the funnel and measure prior to each loading if it was static.

If you were watching the powder in the case (like you should) you would have noticed a large powder difference.

I would pull a few maybe to check the weight. Then again if it troubles you by all means pull them all.

lomaxanderson · October 21, 2009, 06:21 PM

the shell plate does contact the powder funnel but it only moves a little without the case in place .It was not like it went thru the whole motion like it would with the case in place. Thanks

Farmland · October 21, 2009, 06:27 PM

I meant to say that it wasn't hitting the shell plate and then being activated. it looks like you know what I meant.

Slamfire · October 21, 2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

I noticed that when the empty shell plate was at the powder drop/expander position that it seamed to drop a charge.

Seemed to drop a charge?

It either did or it did not.

How much powder are we talking about here. A kernel or two, or 4.5 grains?

PCJim · October 21, 2009, 09:03 PM

Check your finished rounds. You may have missed a primer and had some powder leak thru the pocket/flash hole after the case was filled.

Tazman1602 · October 21, 2009, 09:16 PM

New Member here but I've had my RL550B for fifteen years and never had an issue. Been a year since I've used it and I usually brush up on use before I setup for another winter of reloading. That powder die does not need to touch the shell plate. You have to screw it in until it's close, install the powder dispenser (with the powder drop tube installed) then take an unloaded shell, put it in the shellplate, raise the ram to the topmost position and then adjust the die itself until you get a full throw on the charge bar you are using. I usually check the powder throws every 50 rounds or so on a scale but Dillon products are AWESOME and it's been rare I've had any problems...........the ones I have had are due to my own stupidity......

Hope this helped a bit.

Art

lomaxanderson · October 21, 2009, 10:09 PM

After taking apart my powder measure I found the funnel was caked as well as the tube that is above the funnel in the housing...looked like condinsation and powder mixxed together into a slurry . The powder was not looking like it does when dry...
Now when it dropped powder I was not able collect and weigh it...but it was chunky and gummy and when I took the measure apart I got alot of gummy power out of it...seams as if the slight bump from the shell plate dislodged the coating of powder in the funnel...

Now you guys who load 45 are saying that your shellplate doesn't touch the powder funnel when the ram is at the top of the stroke without a case in place? I try to bell the case as little as possible but to get it so it doesn't shave the projectle it does touch the shellplate and move it up just a little without a case in place...is this normal ? My understanding is that it bells at the top of the stroke so to set it you need full motion on the powder measure and then a little more to bell the case...which makes the funnel contact the shellplate when there is no case in the shellplate...if this is wrong please enlighten me as to how you have set yours...
After pulling 99 rounds apart and weighing all the powder (4.5 x99= 445.5) I got 440 gr so it was dropping light somewhere ...

**Unclenick** · October 21, 2009, 10:19 PM

I started with the spring-only funnel and found that with Bullseye the metering bar would slowly lose its smooth motion and become hesitant and finally the springs could not fully return it to pick up powder every time. Farmland's answer is the one I came to rely on: regular cleaning. I got the fail safe rod when it became available, and that made a significant difference. Other powders didn't seem to pack it up so fast, so this depends on the powder used.

Farmland · October 21, 2009, 10:21 PM

I'm glad you found your problem, make sure to clean the funnel and measure and dry it out well. Like I said I use alcohol because it evaporates pretty fast.

The larger question is how did your powder get contaminated? If you left it in the measure over night or for a few days it could have picked up some moisture.

My reloading room is not in the house so I can't really get to it now to answer your question. However a properly adjusted powder measure will not drop powder. I do load the 45 and the funnel will touch the shell plate on the upstroke. However it should be touch or near touching on the down stroke. it just shouldn't activate the powder measure without a case in the shell holder.

lomaxanderson · October 21, 2009, 10:37 PM

only belling the case to .485...is that too much? I did leave the powder in the measure as I have herd alot of people do ...but that has been changed...the weather has been crazy this week...low 40's to 80 in the afternoon and humidity is always high in the Lowcountry... steel powder funnel condinsates more than aluminum I guess cause there was no gummy powder on the aluminum only on the steel ...thanks for the help...Be safe

**Unclenick** · October 21, 2009, 11:21 PM

You didn't say what powder it was? I've never seen that happen inside a measure. Any chance some lead bullet lube got in and contaminated it? No kids trying to do you a favor by oiling the machine for you? An ambitious insect nesting?

Any case shorter than the stroke needed to operate the measure will need the measure set up such that the tube will touch down on the shell plate or ram when an empty position is under it. Mine wind up a little further down than others because I grind the Lyman M profile into the drop tubes to improve bullet straightness at seating. No problems with accidental measure operation from doing that, though.

lomaxanderson · October 22, 2009, 12:03 AM

...it was Bullseye powder...the only place I found the gummy powder was on the steel parts ,the powder funnel and the tube directly above it.The powder in the hopper is fine...it was from condensation on the steel...both my powder measures had the same problem and I even found some surface rust on the powder funnel and inside the powder die...all cleaned up now...
My wife loves that A/C...I was looking around and noticed all the condensation on the window in my reloading room...Darn I better pull out all my guns and check them as well...

Nnobby45 · October 22, 2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Now you guys who load 45 are saying that your shellplate doesn't touch the powder funnel when the ram is at the top of the stroke without a case in place?

Yes, it does--same as other calibers. But, as mentioned--not enough to move the charge bar far enough to drop powder.

When adjusting your expander. The first thing you need to accomplish is adust it SO THAT THE POWDER BAR MOVES ALL THE WAY FORWARD.

The bell crank cube (that little white square) must go far enough forward to just contact the charge bar assembly, along with that part of the bell crank that the cube fits on. Then you know that the bar has moved as far forward as it can go--as designed.

Do that first, and then make any further belling adjustments, as necessary. Even if it looks like the cube and bell crank are making contact before the charge bar operates all the way forward. That's fine, you won't force it against the housing enough to hurt it if that's what you need to do to get proper flair.

So many loaders are determined to bell the case mouth "just enough". When using range brass, cases vary in length and the short ones get belled less. Some bullets are more beveled at the base than others. Some none. Recommend you adjust it so all bullets you use work fine. If you see little copper or lead shavings on your turret, or elsewhere, adjust the expander for more bell until it stops. Having a little more flair than you need won't hurt anything.

The charge bar must be taken apart and cleaned from time to time. With the old style that utilizes springs, it will stick when it gets dirty and give you a little warning. With the new fail safe system, it will still operate. Even so, clean it from time to time.

As gunked up as yours was, you're doing the right thing to pull the bullets and check your charges. IMO, if you get 10 in a row that are consistent to the 10th gr., then they're probably all right. Don't think you'll be that lucky, since it sounds like your powder bar was seriously fouled.

For consistent powder charges, it's important to make sure the bell crank screw doesn't loosen up. Double nut it if need be. Same for Bell Housing screw.

Farmland · October 22, 2009, 02:57 PM

I checked today and my powder funnel is above the shell plate on the full down stroke. In fact it has a nice space between it. On the up stroke the funnel slightly moves the powder bar but not enough to get any powder.

Did you say that you air conditioner exhaust is in your reloading room?

lomaxanderson · October 22, 2009, 03:46 PM

right outside the door to my room...but the problem is humidity and condensation...still trying to figure a way to lower the humidity in that room ...its at like 80%...that and 40* temperture swing don't help

Farmland · October 22, 2009, 03:52 PM

That can cause some problems. Mine is in one of my non heated out buildings on the farm. The plus is the room is 30 x 40 the minus is that it is unheated. So I do lube my dies, funnels and most metal parts then store then in zip lock bags. I have to keep the rams well lubed on the presses.

So far I have beat the rust but it forces you to clean everything prior to using to get the rust protective off. Rust in a powder funnel can big big problems.

Good luck and I hope all goes well with you in the future.

October 21, 2009, 05:55 PM	#1
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	Dillon 550 drops powder without case in place ...I was loading some 45 acp with bullseye and when I ran out of primers I ran the last 3 rounds out of the turret(seat and crimp)and I noticed that when the empty shell plate was at the powder drop/expander position that it seamed to drop a charge. I called dillon and they are thinking that it is static and possibly the powder keeping the powder bar from closing fully. Now I do not have the failsafe rod hooked up( parts on the way) but I never have . I have the older style powder measures with two springs that wrap around the hopper to the plastic pin. I cannot get it to do it again but I fear I may have something wrong. Has anyone had this happen to them? I may pull this batch apart and start over (100 rounds) just to be safe...what do you guys think? Also does powder build up in the powder funnel? Like coating the inside. __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 21, 2009, 06:21 PM	#3
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	the shell plate does contact the powder funnel but it only moves a little without the case in place .It was not like it went thru the whole motion like it would with the case in place. Thanks __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 21, 2009, 10:09 PM	#8
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	After taking apart my powder measure I found the funnel was caked as well as the tube that is above the funnel in the housing...looked like condinsation and powder mixxed together into a slurry . The powder was not looking like it does when dry... Now when it dropped powder I was not able collect and weigh it...but it was chunky and gummy and when I took the measure apart I got alot of gummy power out of it...seams as if the slight bump from the shell plate dislodged the coating of powder in the funnel... Now you guys who load 45 are saying that your shellplate doesn't touch the powder funnel when the ram is at the top of the stroke without a case in place? I try to bell the case as little as possible but to get it so it doesn't shave the projectle it does touch the shellplate and move it up just a little without a case in place...is this normal ? My understanding is that it bells at the top of the stroke so to set it you need full motion on the powder measure and then a little more to bell the case...which makes the funnel contact the shellplate when there is no case in the shellplate...if this is wrong please enlighten me as to how you have set yours... After pulling 99 rounds apart and weighing all the powder (4.5 x99= 445.5) I got 440 gr so it was dropping light somewhere ... __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 21, 2009, 10:19 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I started with the spring-only funnel and found that with Bullseye the metering bar would slowly lose its smooth motion and become hesitant and finally the springs could not fully return it to pick up powder every time. Farmland's answer is the one I came to rely on: regular cleaning. I got the fail safe rod when it became available, and that made a significant difference. Other powders didn't seem to pack it up so fast, so this depends on the powder used. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 21, 2009, 10:37 PM	#11
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	only belling the case to .485...is that too much? I did leave the powder in the measure as I have herd alot of people do ...but that has been changed...the weather has been crazy this week...low 40's to 80 in the afternoon and humidity is always high in the Lowcountry... steel powder funnel condinsates more than aluminum I guess cause there was no gummy powder on the aluminum only on the steel ...thanks for the help...Be safe __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 21, 2009, 06:10 PM	#2
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I never had any problems. You are sure the powder funnel is touching the shell plate when it is raised activating the powder funnel? I do clean my powder funnels between loads of around 1,000. I just clean is with rubbing alcohol and pipe cleans, it dries pretty fast. I use the older powder measure with the two springs and the fail safe rod. it has never failed going on 20 years. In fact I have three of them. The powder could have bridged in the funnel that is possible with any funnel. Another trick is to use that anti static dry sheet to wipe out the funnel and measure prior to each loading if it was static. If you were watching the powder in the case (like you should) you would have noticed a large powder difference. I would pull a few maybe to check the weight. Then again if it troubles you by all means pull them all.

October 21, 2009, 06:27 PM	#4
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I meant to say that it wasn't hitting the shell plate and then being activated. it looks like you know what I meant.

October 21, 2009, 09:03 PM	#6
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Check your finished rounds. You may have missed a primer and had some powder leak thru the pocket/flash hole after the case was filled.

October 21, 2009, 09:16 PM	#7
Tazman1602 Junior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 9	New Member here but I've had my RL550B for fifteen years and never had an issue. Been a year since I've used it and I usually brush up on use before I setup for another winter of reloading. That powder die does not need to touch the shell plate. You have to screw it in until it's close, install the powder dispenser (with the powder drop tube installed) then take an unloaded shell, put it in the shellplate, raise the ram to the topmost position and then adjust the die itself until you get a full throw on the charge bar you are using. I usually check the powder throws every 50 rounds or so on a scale but Dillon products are AWESOME and it's been rare I've had any problems...........the ones I have had are due to my own stupidity...... Hope this helped a bit. Art

October 21, 2009, 10:21 PM	#10
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I'm glad you found your problem, make sure to clean the funnel and measure and dry it out well. Like I said I use alcohol because it evaporates pretty fast. The larger question is how did your powder get contaminated? If you left it in the measure over night or for a few days it could have picked up some moisture. My reloading room is not in the house so I can't really get to it now to answer your question. However a properly adjusted powder measure will not drop powder. I do load the 45 and the funnel will touch the shell plate on the upstroke. However it should be touch or near touching on the down stroke. it just shouldn't activate the powder measure without a case in the shell holder.

October 21, 2009, 11:21 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	You didn't say what powder it was? I've never seen that happen inside a measure. Any chance some lead bullet lube got in and contaminated it? No kids trying to do you a favor by oiling the machine for you? An ambitious insect nesting? Any case shorter than the stroke needed to operate the measure will need the measure set up such that the tube will touch down on the shell plate or ram when an empty position is under it. Mine wind up a little further down than others because I grind the Lyman M profile into the drop tubes to improve bullet straightness at seating. No problems with accidental measure operation from doing that, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 22, 2009, 12:03 AM	#13
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	to clarify ...it was Bullseye powder...the only place I found the gummy powder was on the steel parts ,the powder funnel and the tube directly above it.The powder in the hopper is fine...it was from condensation on the steel...both my powder measures had the same problem and I even found some surface rust on the powder funnel and inside the powder die...all cleaned up now... My wife loves that A/C...I was looking around and noticed all the condensation on the window in my reloading room...Darn I better pull out all my guns and check them as well... __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 22, 2009, 02:57 PM	#15
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I checked today and my powder funnel is above the shell plate on the full down stroke. In fact it has a nice space between it. On the up stroke the funnel slightly moves the powder bar but not enough to get any powder. Did you say that you air conditioner exhaust is in your reloading room?

October 22, 2009, 03:46 PM	#16
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	right outside the door to my room...but the problem is humidity and condensation...still trying to figure a way to lower the humidity in that room ...its at like 80%...that and 40* temperture swing don't help __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd Last edited by lomaxanderson; October 22, 2009 at 06:32 PM.

October 22, 2009, 03:52 PM	#17
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	That can cause some problems. Mine is in one of my non heated out buildings on the farm. The plus is the room is 30 x 40 the minus is that it is unheated. So I do lube my dies, funnels and most metal parts then store then in zip lock bags. I have to keep the rams well lubed on the presses. So far I have beat the rust but it forces you to clean everything prior to using to get the rust protective off. Rust in a powder funnel can big big problems. Good luck and I hope all goes well with you in the future.