Can I swap out bullets in load data?

Lavid2002 · May 18, 2008, 09:30 PM

Hi all!
Lymans 48th has a recipe for 55 grain jacketed SPT. In can swap this out for a FMJ of the same weight because it wont effect pressure or OAL in any way correct? same applies for hollow points and other jacketed bullets of the same weight as long as its not different like boat tail or something that effects the base of the bullet wich would effect the volume of air in the casing correct?
Thanks!
Daveh

Army GI · May 18, 2008, 09:36 PM

Read page 99 of your book starting with the paragraph that begins with,

Quote:

It's also important to know what to look for because you will not always be using the loading manual's recepie exactly as it's listed[/snip]

Lavid2002 · May 18, 2008, 10:12 PM

indeed : D Back off 15% and start over... check for signs of high pressure Thanks buddy! Great.

P.S. did you memorize the book? haha

Army GI · May 18, 2008, 10:14 PM

Actually, I just got into reloading after buying my first press on Thursday and I spent all day reading the first 120 pages or so of this book

The section I referenced stuck out the most in my mind because I'm in the same situation as you. Their reloading data list absolutely NONE of the components I was hoping I could use.

Lavid2002 · May 19, 2008, 05:57 AM

people said, "oh well i beleive the lyman manual has a section specifically for the ar15" I was like sweet! Ill have numerous recipes to play with...here I have what 40 grain and 60 grain v-max...ok thats nice. And a.....55 grain soft point? Wheres the M193 55 grain ball. Wheres are the m885 green tip loads haha. A little dissapointing but it works.
I took 4 days to read mine on and off. Funny thing was I stopped at page 97 and figured id order some loads and then read on when u told me to go to page 99 haha!

Al Norris · May 19, 2008, 07:53 AM

This is the point where someone else will come in and tell you that this is why it's a good idea to have more than one reference for load data available.

Besides the Lyman's 48th ed, I have Hornadys 6th ed, Hodgdons 2006 and those little Load Books for each caliber I load for. Then there are the online resources, like Hodgdons web site, which does change, from time to time, to reflect newer data.

While I'm still comparatively new at reloading, I have learned that you can't have too many sources.

Ruger4570 · May 19, 2008, 11:06 PM

Unless you are loading on the HOT side of the page, a 55 grain bullet is still a 55 gr. bullet. Of course, they are all a little different in jacket thickness and composition and hardness. Unless your loads are somewhere near maximum, I doubt ANY 55 grain bullet is going to be a problem.
I have been loading for about 48 years now and have substituted bullets and manufactures for all these years. I don't load MAX and I have never had a problem swapping bullets between makers as long as they were the same weight or real close in weight.

Lavid2002 · May 20, 2008, 12:19 PM

55 grain bullet, one soft pount...the other FMJ. Whats the difference? FMJ has a opening in the slick metal at the base instead of at the tip like the soft point. Same weight..same composition Im not loading hot I figure it will be fine. .308 on the other hand...Ill reduce my loads for soemthing like that.

The Lovemaster · May 20, 2008, 01:01 PM

I recently got the Lee 2nd Edition manual, and my initial take is that it has a boatload of bullets for each caliber. That and its loads are a little hotter than other manuals, so perhaps Mr. Lee hasn't been affected by the lawyers yet.

WESHOOT2 · May 21, 2008, 11:09 AM

Different bullets can be significantly different regardless of weight, shape, contruction, or material similarities.

Different.
JUST like powders, their characteristics can differ greatly.

Utterly unsound practice to assume it safe to 'swap' bullets WITHOUT working back up.

Come on, "Safety first" keeps the fun alive....

not everyone is qualified to be a brain surgeon, either

Lavid2002 · May 21, 2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Utterly unsound practice to assume it safe to 'swap' bullets WITHOUT working back up.

Alright

Ill work em back up from ten percent

CrustyFN · May 21, 2008, 03:21 PM

I'm with WESHOOT2 on this one. Not all bullet weights are created equal. In this picture both bullets are .224 and are 55 grains. Look at how much deep the one on the left will have to seat.
Rusty

WESHOOT2 · May 22, 2008, 09:45 AM

THAT'S safe LOL.

Lavid2002 · May 22, 2008, 12:19 PM

Yep....Ill work em up. Man I just found that black crud on some loads I dissasebled the other day. What is that stuff?

Wildalaska · May 22, 2008, 01:25 PM

I have done it, but only with a load far below max. In fact I have a load that uses two different bullets from two different manufacturers that shoots virtually the same velocity and POI one specific rifle, all else except seating depth being equal (powder, primer and case).

WildmorefunthanpoliticsAlaska ™

WESHOOT2 · May 24, 2008, 12:59 PM

crud = (maybe) sealant or adhesive; factory ammo?

What I do often differs from what I suggest others do.

Zombie Steve · May 24, 2008, 01:08 PM

You can interchange, but as CrustyFN and Weshoot2 mentioned, start over and work up. In addition to seating depth, look at the different ogive and surface area in CrustyFN's pic...

elkman06 · May 26, 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

In addition to seating depth, look at the different ogive and surface area in CrustyFN's pic...

+1.
The ogive of the bullet can easily cause you to change the OAL creating a difference in pressure. I recently ran into this w/ my XD pistols. For whatever reason, my XDs' force me to shorten the OAL up when I use some of the chubbier HP bullets Like Berrys'. My nephew has a 1911 that will take the same round in a lot longer OAL
elkman06

T. O'Heir · May 26, 2008, 01:43 PM

Load for the bullet weight and cast or jacketed. Who made it or its construction doesn't matter.

gun44 · May 28, 2008, 03:34 AM

I ALWAYS back off at least 10%, and then work back up, when changing bullets, even when they are the same weight. Bullet seating depth, shape, base configuration, distance to crimping groove from bullet base, and other factors can each minutely affect pressure, I believe. It is better to be safe than sorry.

WESHOOT2 · May 28, 2008, 07:49 AM

Construction matters (maybe not to some. Yet).

Consider please the Speer Gold Dot vs the Hornady XTP.
Select same weight and diameter.
Then acknowledge one is jacketed; one is not.

Safety first is not just a slogan........

WESHOOT2 · May 28, 2008, 07:53 AM

Here's MY favorite:

.452" 300g Swift A-Frame vs .452" 300g Hornady XTP-HP (either version, the one- or two-cannelure choices); try loading them on top of the same charge, and then after chronographing tell me that construction doesn't matter LOL.

Lavid2002 · May 28, 2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

"working up"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THAT'S safe LOL.

It is safe....working up the load from 10 or 15 percent reduced charge is perfectly safe. Maybe 20 percent if its a max load

May 18, 2008, 09:30 PM	#1
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	Can I swap out bullets in load data? Hi all! Lymans 48th has a recipe for 55 grain jacketed SPT. In can swap this out for a FMJ of the same weight because it wont effect pressure or OAL in any way correct? same applies for hollow points and other jacketed bullets of the same weight as long as its not different like boat tail or something that effects the base of the bullet wich would effect the volume of air in the casing correct? Thanks! Daveh __________________ Math>Grammar

May 18, 2008, 10:12 PM	#3
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	ahhhh indeed : D Back off 15% and start over... check for signs of high pressure Thanks buddy! Great. P.S. did you memorize the book? haha __________________ Math>Grammar

May 19, 2008, 05:57 AM	#5
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	I Knowww!!!! people said, "oh well i beleive the lyman manual has a section specifically for the ar15" I was like sweet! Ill have numerous recipes to play with...here I have what 40 grain and 60 grain v-max...ok thats nice. And a.....55 grain soft point? Wheres the M193 55 grain ball. Wheres are the m885 green tip loads haha. A little dissapointing but it works. I took 4 days to read mine on and off. Funny thing was I stopped at page 97 and figured id order some loads and then read on when u told me to go to page 99 haha! __________________ Math>Grammar

May 20, 2008, 12:19 PM	#8
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	I figured that 55 grain bullet, one soft pount...the other FMJ. Whats the difference? FMJ has a opening in the slick metal at the base instead of at the tip like the soft point. Same weight..same composition Im not loading hot I figure it will be fine. .308 on the other hand...Ill reduce my loads for soemthing like that. __________________ Math>Grammar

May 21, 2008, 11:09 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	understanding "different" Different bullets can be significantly different regardless of weight, shape, contruction, or material similarities. Different. JUST like powders, their characteristics can differ greatly. Utterly unsound practice to assume it safe to 'swap' bullets WITHOUT working back up. Come on, "Safety first" keeps the fun alive.... not everyone is qualified to be a brain surgeon, either __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 18, 2008, 10:14 PM	#4
Army GI Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Posts: 284	Actually, I just got into reloading after buying my first press on Thursday and I spent all day reading the first 120 pages or so of this book The section I referenced stuck out the most in my mind because I'm in the same situation as you. Their reloading data list absolutely NONE of the components I was hoping I could use.

May 19, 2008, 07:53 AM	#6
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	This is the point where someone else will come in and tell you that this is why it's a good idea to have more than one reference for load data available. Besides the Lyman's 48th ed, I have Hornadys 6th ed, Hodgdons 2006 and those little Load Books for each caliber I load for. Then there are the online resources, like Hodgdons web site, which does change, from time to time, to reflect newer data. While I'm still comparatively new at reloading, I have learned that you can't have too many sources.

May 19, 2008, 11:06 PM	#7
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Unless you are loading on the HOT side of the page, a 55 grain bullet is still a 55 gr. bullet. Of course, they are all a little different in jacket thickness and composition and hardness. Unless your loads are somewhere near maximum, I doubt ANY 55 grain bullet is going to be a problem. I have been loading for about 48 years now and have substituted bullets and manufactures for all these years. I don't load MAX and I have never had a problem swapping bullets between makers as long as they were the same weight or real close in weight.

May 20, 2008, 01:01 PM	#9
The Lovemaster Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 416	I recently got the Lee 2nd Edition manual, and my initial take is that it has a boatload of bullets for each caliber. That and its loads are a little hotter than other manuals, so perhaps Mr. Lee hasn't been affected by the lawyers yet.

May 21, 2008, 03:21 PM	#12
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I'm with WESHOOT2 on this one. Not all bullet weights are created equal. In this picture both bullets are .224 and are 55 grains. Look at how much deep the one on the left will have to seat. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

May 22, 2008, 09:45 AM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"working up" THAT'S safe LOL. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 22, 2008, 12:19 PM	#14
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	Yep....Ill work em up. Man I just found that black crud on some loads I dissasebled the other day. What is that stuff? __________________ Math>Grammar

May 22, 2008, 01:25 PM	#15
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I have done it, but only with a load far below max. In fact I have a load that uses two different bullets from two different manufacturers that shoots virtually the same velocity and POI one specific rifle, all else except seating depth being equal (powder, primer and case). WildmorefunthanpoliticsAlaska ™

May 24, 2008, 12:59 PM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	crud = (maybe) sealant or adhesive; factory ammo? What I do often differs from what I suggest others do. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 24, 2008, 01:08 PM	#17
Zombie Steve Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Old Colorado City Posts: 527	You can interchange, but as CrustyFN and Weshoot2 mentioned, start over and work up. In addition to seating depth, look at the different ogive and surface area in CrustyFN's pic...

May 26, 2008, 01:43 PM	#19
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Load for the bullet weight and cast or jacketed. Who made it or its construction doesn't matter. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 28, 2008, 03:34 AM	#20
gun44 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 125	Think: SAFTY FIRST! I ALWAYS back off at least 10%, and then work back up, when changing bullets, even when they are the same weight. Bullet seating depth, shape, base configuration, distance to crimping groove from bullet base, and other factors can each minutely affect pressure, I believe. It is better to be safe than sorry.

May 28, 2008, 07:49 AM	#21
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	fallacy Construction matters (maybe not to some. Yet). Consider please the Speer Gold Dot vs the Hornady XTP. Select same weight and diameter. Then acknowledge one is jacketed; one is not. Safety first is not just a slogan........ __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 28, 2008, 07:53 AM	#22
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	under construction Here's MY favorite: .452" 300g Swift A-Frame vs .452" 300g Hornady XTP-HP (either version, the one- or two-cannelure choices); try loading them on top of the same charge, and then after chronographing tell me that construction doesn't matter LOL. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"