I want to know what happened to you!

kristop64089 · March 23, 2007, 07:05 AM

This is a 2 part thread so bear with me please.

I posted in another thread and it got me thinking...

1) I see BUG used around here ALOT. I don't know who is LEO or what around here, so i never paid that much attention.

The response to my question was somtimes guns break....understand that but,

2) Who has ever been in a life-threataning situation? Especially one that causes you to:
- empty your clip and insert a new one
- drop your main gun and grab your BUG

I can assure you that alot is going in your mind, and the window you have to do all of this in is very short, and time is a distorted reality.

This only applies to civilians(average joes/jills) not to anyone who may put themselves into harms way.

The reason all of this is, 8 years ago I was walking thru in a parking lot in Kansas(neighbor state). My girlfriend and I saw a 40 year old guy slashing tires in the lot. I thought nothing more of it other than what an ass. He thought different. His partner was in a van behind us. Upon some signal(?) the van boxed us off and the man on foot staqrted his encroachment.
We had made it to my truck(where I kept my AMT .380)(at this time MO was not a ccw state) where I then had to break into my truck(which was new) To retrieve said gun. At this point I was operating on 90% adrenaline ,5% fear, 5% rationality. When I spun around I found myself staring down the barrel of a loaded .38spl. I had made up my mind that I was going to end this guys life, so I brought the gun up on him and started to squeeze the trigger. When he saw this he quickly lowered his ,and scurried off.

Now at that point it didn't matter if it was a .25 that I had or a .50bmg the sheer thought that I would kill him was enuff to stop the guy.

There was no BUG option at this point, no second chance, no mulligan.
If my gun failed ,I would not have had the time to do anything else it would have been lights out for me.

I expect any gun that I carry for self defense to be @ 100% when I take it out.

I know that is not always the case. Every situation differs. I'm ex-military I have had all the defensive/offensive weapons training but, I had never been cornered out of my element like that before.

So that brought up this thread. I am in no-way critcizing or making fun! I'm just curious. I say we have the right to bear arms, and their is no harm in double fisting. I just wanted to know

DesertShooter · March 24, 2007, 09:18 AM

I don't know why you wanted to exclude LEO's and their usage of back-up-guns!

I can only respond with LEO occurrences, for I am a retired LEO....but have never been in the position of having to go to my BUG in the shootings that I've been involved in.

Many years ago, most LEO's only carried revolvers. That meant 6 shots only, before having to reload, and if you go back far enough, "stripper clips" for revolvers weren't available. Many LEO's started carrying BUG revolvers, so that they would have a second handgun to go to....either 11 or 12 rounds to fire.

One of my former partners was involved in a running gun battle with an armed suspect. He had fired the 6 rounds in his primary revolver as he ran, then discarded it and drew his BUG. As the running continued, the officer was able to finally hit the suspect with one of the rounds from his BUG, dropping the suspect. He held the downed suspect "at bay" with his BUG until other officers arrived. A newspaper photographer got a great photo of that officer holding his 2" revolver on the downed suspect, and that lead to all kind of questions from the "brass"! "Why didn't that officer shoot with his primary revolver?", and even "Why did it take so many rounds fired by the officer before he hit the suspect?". Both questions were ABSURD, and the officer was eventually cleared of any "policy" violations.

During the infamous Miami/FBI shoot-out with two armed bank robbers, one of the FBI agents was carrying only his duty revolver, no BUG. He fired all 6 rounds, and as he began reloading, he was hit in the hand, with some of his own flesh landing on the crane of his revolver. After he had reloaded the revolver, the cylinder wouldn't fully close! If I'm not mistaken, that FBI agent was killed during the shoot-out....partly because he had no other firearm to use.

I think that if a poll was made, there would be very few citizens with CCW permits that carry BUG's. As a rule, most CCW permitees wish to maintain a VERY low profile, so carrying more than one firearm wouldn't even be an "issue". Add to that, many CCW permitees are somewhat "scared" of what the consequences might be if they are ever involved in a shooting. A very small group of CCW permittees have mentioned that they would NEVER use their weapon to save the day of a total stranger (I doubt if that small group is 100% adamant about NEVER defending strangers, but that is what they have SAID).

Me? Well, I've CCW'ed for 35+ years, as a LEO and as a retired LEO. Fortunately, I've never been involved in any shootings while off-duty or retired. I've also never felt the NEED to carry a BUG....other than when I was an on-duty LEO, and wearing a police uniform made me somewhat of a target!

kristop64089 · March 24, 2007, 09:22 AM

The only reason I am excluding LEO's is... I understand why LEO's, and the like, carry them. I was just curious as to why an ordinary citizen would?

Edison Carter · March 24, 2007, 09:51 AM

To the experience of a lot of people, when things go bad, they go bad in BUNCHES!

Have a plan.
Have another plan.
Have another plan when the first two don't work out.
Another plan might be good, too.

EC

stephen426 · March 24, 2007, 10:27 AM

kristop64089,

First of all, I am not a LEO so I have to carry concealed. I hate to look at it this way, but carrying a bulky piece of metal that weighs a couple of pounds is inconvenient, even if your life depends on it. Furthermore, depending on your normal attire, hiding just one gun is sometimes difficult, much less two. I know there are always options such as Thunderwear and ankle holsters, but they are slower to draw from and not always practical.

Since I find it too cumbersome to carry two guns, I only carry one. For that reason, I carry only high quality guns that have an excellent track record of reliability, reputation wise and from your own experience. That means put a few hundred rounds of your carry ammo through it to ensure reliability. It also means practicing clearing your gun by mixing snap caps into the magazine. If you practice TRB (Tap Rack Bang), it should solve the jam almost every time. Make sure you clean an inspect your gun regularly, especially if you pocket carry (get the lint and junk out).

If you are that concerned about reliability, go with a revolver. Bad round? Click and you're good. They have less moving parts and have less chances of jamming. They are bulkier to carry (the cylinder) and usually hold less rounds compared to autos of equal size. Reloads are also bulkier than the slim magazines of semi-autos. Finally, while Jerry Miculek (spelling?

) can reload faster with a revolver faster than many of us can reload semi-autos, it takes a tremendous amount of practice to do so.

For me, Glocks have a proven track record of reliability and I have put thousands of rounds through mine without a hiccup. I practice on a regular basis and have a high degree of confidence in mine. With one extra mag, I've got 20 rounds at my disposal (hopefully more than I'll ever need).

ATW525 · March 24, 2007, 10:30 AM

When I was young and stupid and didn't know any better I strapped on my Sig P220 fully loaded with Corbon 185 +P hollowpoints with the confidence that they would work even though I hadn't specifically tested that combination. While carrying this pistol I encountered a situation where I felt obliged to intervene on behalf of a third party who were being visciously attacked and beaten by a large gang of thugs in a park. The attackers did not run away at the sight of my gun, but at least they ceased there attack long enough for their victims to get away and the incident was brought to a conclusion without my having to employ deadly force.

It was later on that I discovered the combination I was carrying did not function reliably. If I had been forced to shoot in the above encounter I would likely only have been able to get one or two rounds off between stovepipes. Though I didn't have a BUG at the time, I believe that in that situation, having one might have given me a fighting chance if things had come down to fighting. I now test my carry gun/ammo combinations and carry a BUG fairly often... doubly so since I carry a revolver and the quickest way I've found to reload my revolver is to pull out my Glock

A side note is that my style of shooting has changed since I started carrying a BUG. I find myself practicing alot more with one handed shooting... both strong side and weak side. If both my hands are free in a fight I might be able to go for my BUG while still shooting with my primary. Of course, it's easy to say... even easy to do in dry practice... but it remains to be seen if it will be practical in a real fight.

kristop64089 · March 24, 2007, 12:06 PM

I do want to be more specific in my question.

When I speak of BUG i'm inly talking 2nd gun on person.

I am always near 2-3 "GO TO" guns at most times.

I have designated "car" guns...""home" guns

My primary carry is now a S&W 637. Love the simplicity, and versatility of ther gun.

I also feel that if my life is in danger(or loved ones). I should be able to end the conflict within 5 shots.

If I as a private citizen were to shoot 5 times, drop my revolver, grab my xd-40 and unload, I would be hard-pressed to claim self defense.

True, I would have saved life, but in trade for what. This is a very fine line we walk as "private citizens". What could be called SD, could easily become 2nd degree murder.....

Blackwater OPS · March 24, 2007, 06:21 PM

As far as CCW:
I usually carry a S&W 342 .38 all the time. It's my primary gun so to speak, and in an ankle holster it's hardly noticeable. If I feel the need for a more available weapon or a bit more firepower for whatever reason I would take my Beretta 96F or my Sig 228 in a IWB, but I would certainly not leave the J-frame behind, it could be handy, though I don't expect to need it.

allenomics · March 24, 2007, 07:56 PM

LEO along with other common terms are listed here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...earms_acronyms

BUG is a small but hopefully dependable back up CCW.

Sycofrogg · March 24, 2007, 08:08 PM

Ok well, I have two primary ccw. Either my Taurus .38 J-Frame, or my Glock 38 . 45 GAP. Sometimes I might slip my Charter Arms .22 LR Dixie Derringer into the little jean pocket above the right big one. It fits snug and is easily covered.

I figure why wait for a situation where I run out of ammo. My father always says, "Better to have it, and not need it. Then to need it, and not have it.'

ATW525 · March 24, 2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

If I as a private citizen were to shoot 5 times, drop my revolver, grab my xd-40 and unload, I would be hard-pressed to claim self defense.

True, I would have saved life, but in trade for what. This is a very fine line we walk as "private citizens". What could be called SD, could easily become 2nd degree murder.....

Private citizens have emptied multiple guns in gunfights before and been found to be justified. Ayoob's article on Lance Thomas details a real world example of this. You can claim self defense no matter how bullets you shoot or guns you empty as long as their was still a credible threat that required deadly force to neutralize. Handgun bullets are weak, and bad guys frequently travel in packs... who knows how many shots might be required to resolve a conflict.

Another interesting about Lance Thomas was that he had only a five shot j frame for his first fight and came to realize that five shots is not enough. I believe he eventually had eight guns in his shop.

BillCA · March 25, 2007, 01:06 AM

When travelling on the road, I've come to appreciate a shoulder holster's comfort and ease of access. But I've also carried a pistol in the traditional hip position with a shoulder holstered gun.

There is a lot to be said for a small hammerless wheelgun that can be in your hand inside a coat pocket while your full-sized service gun is safely concealed, especially if you are walking through underground garages at night or have to walk to a block or two to a parking lot.

biere · March 26, 2007, 09:18 PM

If you carry 2 guns you might carry them on different sides of the body and in different positions so that you can get to one gun or the other regardless of if you are sitting or leaning against something or whatever.

If you carry two guns and are out in bad weather and are in a scuffle where the gun in your hand gets jammed into the dirt or falls into a puddle or something like that you have the option of reaching for the 2nd gun that is still in its holster instead of chancing the gun that got dropped has a load of dirt in the barrel from its fall.

To some extent some people carry 2 handguns because their spouse does not like to carry but is proficient with a handgun. So if something happens the spouse gets one of the guns.

I have never had to draw my gun with the intent of using it I hope it stays that way.

I generally carry a 1911 iwb and a snubby in my pants pocket. When sitting the snubby is hard to get to but the 1911 is not too bad.

I accept that ammo, magazines, or the firearm itself can fail so that is part of why I want a backup gun.

The s&w 642 is nice and light and is not a big deal for me to carry. The 1911 takes a good holster and better belt than what I have right now, but I make due with what I have and am going to order a real gun belt soon because other stuff just does not do the job very well for very long.

kristop64089 · April 2, 2007, 06:43 AM

I see some of the valid BUG points. But, lets use it in a practical application.

In public BG approaaches you (or defensless 3rd party for that matter) You have to resort to pulling your weapon.(remember life is at stake!). You pull your gun and....
1) pull trigger and it goes click
2) round jams
3) you drop it
4) BG takes it
5) any other crappy thing you would not want to have happen at this moment.

I am a firm believer in if you pull i be prepared to use it. Plus in a gun fight 1st shot wins.

so if any of the above happened the likely-hood of your BUG being used is slim.

Now most likely the BG will either continue on his evil path of destruction...or run( probably not)

I mean look at the poor guy w/gun in pocket that was mugged in storage shed. His main gun was no-good to him at all.

This is just a weird thing to me(the BUG scenario). It sounds more like a macho thing to me.

I would rather have a good knife to fall back on then another mechanical device to possibly fail( that is why it's there in the first place, as a back up to a mechanical device that could fail). With proper defensive training I think you are better off.

I am a firm believer in CCW so don't start flaming me. Like my title says "I want to know what happened to you!"

ATW525 · April 2, 2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Plus in a gun fight 1st shot wins.

I have to disagree on this point. Unless the first shot results in instant physical or psychological incapacitation, it's very possible the other guy will still be able to shoot back. Getting the other guy first will likely increase your odds, but it's no sure bet that you won't be the one leaving the scene in a body bag.

kristop64089 · April 2, 2007, 05:51 PM

I guess I'm not able to really put my line of thinking into clear words....

Let me reiterate. I'm not trying to insult. I just can't figure out why an average citizen going to Chucky Cheese needs to pack two guns.

I understand the one gun option but, there has been no real answers as to why an average citizen has the need for two On the person.

On the flip side there is no concrete reason as to not carry two.

I personnaly am always around two. One on me one in the house, car etc...

JazzyD · April 2, 2007, 07:09 PM

I don't even own two guns. I guess I'm sc*wed.....

DeathRodent · April 3, 2007, 07:40 PM

Kris I don't CCW but I can imagine why I would carry 2 guns if I could carry.

One would be a small revolver or pistol depending on the circumstances - the other might be a smaller gun for weak side access - say the BG gets a hold of you and you cannot get to your gun with your right arm (and you are right handed) if you have a small BUG (back up gun) even if its a small .32 acp NAA pistol you could grab it with your other hand and end the problem.

2 hands = 2 guns

or, your bug is a small .22 NAA single action revolver very last resort (IMO) but so small you can easily carry it in your left back pocket and a J frame .38 in your front right pocket - you probably wouldn't need it but heck you probably wouldn't need even one so what - murphy's law and all that.

VUPDblue · April 5, 2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

To some extent some people carry 2 handguns because their spouse does not like to carry but is proficient with a handgun. So if something happens the spouse gets one of the guns.

This is the exact reason that when I am out with the wife, I have one IWB and another on the ankle. She knows that there are 2 on me if there are 0 on her.

Ben Shepherd · April 14, 2007, 12:08 PM

I carry revolvers. Due to nerve damage in one arm I'm pretty much one-handed as far as fine motor skills go. So:

IF I carried a semi, and it jammed, I'm screwed. If I need to do a reload, I'd be pretty slow, regardless of action type.

So:

I've decided on carrying two revolvers. I can draw that second gun much faster that I can reload either a semi or revolver. And two revolvers on oppisite sides are no more total weight, or worse balance than a semi on one side with a mag or 2 on the other.

How's that?

revjen45 · April 14, 2007, 01:17 PM

I agree with the posts which support carrying a main gun + a BUG in a position in which you can have your hand on it. I carry a 10-shot 9mm OWB @ 4 o'clock (2 extra mags) + a 5-shot .38 snubbie in a back pocket or the pocket of a canvas vest. The 9mm has always functioned perfectly, but Murphy's law will always kick in at the worst possible time. Also, the fact that I can have my hand on the .38 without exposing it is a big help.

kristop64089 · April 14, 2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

I've decided on carrying two revolvers. I can draw that second gun much faster that I can reload either a semi or revolver. And two revolvers on oppisite sides are no more total weight, or worse balance than a semi on one side with a mag or 2 on the other.

How's that?

That's the answers I was looking for.

I percieve there are people out there that "spray and pray" drop in two more mags, drop em, then grab their BUG.

I wonder, why would any one go through 45 rounds on a BG.?

I'm not flaming, But I want to know why. I carry the one gun on me and one in proxemity. It's first come first serve.

March 24, 2007, 10:27 AM	#5
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	kristop64089, First of all, I am not a LEO so I have to carry concealed. I hate to look at it this way, but carrying a bulky piece of metal that weighs a couple of pounds is inconvenient, even if your life depends on it. Furthermore, depending on your normal attire, hiding just one gun is sometimes difficult, much less two. I know there are always options such as Thunderwear and ankle holsters, but they are slower to draw from and not always practical. Since I find it too cumbersome to carry two guns, I only carry one. For that reason, I carry only high quality guns that have an excellent track record of reliability, reputation wise and from your own experience. That means put a few hundred rounds of your carry ammo through it to ensure reliability. It also means practicing clearing your gun by mixing snap caps into the magazine. If you practice TRB (Tap Rack Bang), it should solve the jam almost every time. Make sure you clean an inspect your gun regularly, especially if you pocket carry (get the lint and junk out). If you are that concerned about reliability, go with a revolver. Bad round? Click and you're good. They have less moving parts and have less chances of jamming. They are bulkier to carry (the cylinder) and usually hold less rounds compared to autos of equal size. Reloads are also bulkier than the slim magazines of semi-autos. Finally, while Jerry Miculek (spelling? ) can reload faster with a revolver faster than many of us can reload semi-autos, it takes a tremendous amount of practice to do so. For me, Glocks have a proven track record of reliability and I have put thousands of rounds through mine without a hiccup. I practice on a regular basis and have a high degree of confidence in mine. With one extra mag, I've got 20 rounds at my disposal (hopefully more than I'll ever need). __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

March 24, 2007, 06:21 PM	#8
Blackwater OPS Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,152	As far as CCW: I usually carry a S&W 342 .38 all the time. It's my primary gun so to speak, and in an ankle holster it's hardly noticeable. If I feel the need for a more available weapon or a bit more firepower for whatever reason I would take my Beretta 96F or my Sig 228 in a IWB, but I would certainly not leave the J-frame behind, it could be handy, though I don't expect to need it. __________________ "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell Died 9/1/2005 and the best DS ever MSG Matthew Ritz Died 11.23.2005 matthewritz.com For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know. (\__/) (='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny! (")_(")

March 24, 2007, 07:56 PM	#9
allenomics Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 1,536	LEO along with other common terms are listed here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...earms_acronyms BUG is a small but hopefully dependable back up CCW. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power!

March 24, 2007, 08:08 PM	#10
Sycofrogg Member Join Date: March 15, 2006 Posts: 57	Ok well, I have two primary ccw. Either my Taurus .38 J-Frame, or my Glock 38 . 45 GAP. Sometimes I might slip my Charter Arms .22 LR Dixie Derringer into the little jean pocket above the right big one. It fits snug and is easily covered. I figure why wait for a situation where I run out of ammo. My father always says, "Better to have it, and not need it. Then to need it, and not have it.' __________________ If you don't believe in God, then you will believe in anything.

March 25, 2007, 01:06 AM	#12
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	When travelling on the road, I've come to appreciate a shoulder holster's comfort and ease of access. But I've also carried a pistol in the traditional hip position with a shoulder holstered gun. There is a lot to be said for a small hammerless wheelgun that can be in your hand inside a coat pocket while your full-sized service gun is safely concealed, especially if you are walking through underground garages at night or have to walk to a block or two to a parking lot. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

March 24, 2007, 09:18 AM	#2
DesertShooter Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Posts: 67	I don't know why you wanted to exclude LEO's and their usage of back-up-guns! I can only respond with LEO occurrences, for I am a retired LEO....but have never been in the position of having to go to my BUG in the shootings that I've been involved in. Many years ago, most LEO's only carried revolvers. That meant 6 shots only, before having to reload, and if you go back far enough, "stripper clips" for revolvers weren't available. Many LEO's started carrying BUG revolvers, so that they would have a second handgun to go to....either 11 or 12 rounds to fire. One of my former partners was involved in a running gun battle with an armed suspect. He had fired the 6 rounds in his primary revolver as he ran, then discarded it and drew his BUG. As the running continued, the officer was able to finally hit the suspect with one of the rounds from his BUG, dropping the suspect. He held the downed suspect "at bay" with his BUG until other officers arrived. A newspaper photographer got a great photo of that officer holding his 2" revolver on the downed suspect, and that lead to all kind of questions from the "brass"! "Why didn't that officer shoot with his primary revolver?", and even "Why did it take so many rounds fired by the officer before he hit the suspect?". Both questions were ABSURD, and the officer was eventually cleared of any "policy" violations. During the infamous Miami/FBI shoot-out with two armed bank robbers, one of the FBI agents was carrying only his duty revolver, no BUG. He fired all 6 rounds, and as he began reloading, he was hit in the hand, with some of his own flesh landing on the crane of his revolver. After he had reloaded the revolver, the cylinder wouldn't fully close! If I'm not mistaken, that FBI agent was killed during the shoot-out....partly because he had no other firearm to use. I think that if a poll was made, there would be very few citizens with CCW permits that carry BUG's. As a rule, most CCW permitees wish to maintain a VERY low profile, so carrying more than one firearm wouldn't even be an "issue". Add to that, many CCW permitees are somewhat "scared" of what the consequences might be if they are ever involved in a shooting. A very small group of CCW permittees have mentioned that they would NEVER use their weapon to save the day of a total stranger (I doubt if that small group is 100% adamant about NEVER defending strangers, but that is what they have SAID). Me? Well, I've CCW'ed for 35+ years, as a LEO and as a retired LEO. Fortunately, I've never been involved in any shootings while off-duty or retired. I've also never felt the NEED to carry a BUG....other than when I was an on-duty LEO, and wearing a police uniform made me somewhat of a target!

March 24, 2007, 09:51 AM	#4
Edison Carter Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2005 Posts: 111	To the experience of a lot of people, when things go bad, they go bad in BUNCHES! Have a plan. Have another plan. Have another plan when the first two don't work out. Another plan might be good, too. EC

March 24, 2007, 10:30 AM	#6
ATW525 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 2,723	When I was young and stupid and didn't know any better I strapped on my Sig P220 fully loaded with Corbon 185 +P hollowpoints with the confidence that they would work even though I hadn't specifically tested that combination. While carrying this pistol I encountered a situation where I felt obliged to intervene on behalf of a third party who were being visciously attacked and beaten by a large gang of thugs in a park. The attackers did not run away at the sight of my gun, but at least they ceased there attack long enough for their victims to get away and the incident was brought to a conclusion without my having to employ deadly force. It was later on that I discovered the combination I was carrying did not function reliably. If I had been forced to shoot in the above encounter I would likely only have been able to get one or two rounds off between stovepipes. Though I didn't have a BUG at the time, I believe that in that situation, having one might have given me a fighting chance if things had come down to fighting. I now test my carry gun/ammo combinations and carry a BUG fairly often... doubly so since I carry a revolver and the quickest way I've found to reload my revolver is to pull out my Glock A side note is that my style of shooting has changed since I started carrying a BUG. I find myself practicing alot more with one handed shooting... both strong side and weak side. If both my hands are free in a fight I might be able to go for my BUG while still shooting with my primary. Of course, it's easy to say... even easy to do in dry practice... but it remains to be seen if it will be practical in a real fight.

March 26, 2007, 09:18 PM	#13
biere Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: tn Posts: 504	If you carry 2 guns you might carry them on different sides of the body and in different positions so that you can get to one gun or the other regardless of if you are sitting or leaning against something or whatever. If you carry two guns and are out in bad weather and are in a scuffle where the gun in your hand gets jammed into the dirt or falls into a puddle or something like that you have the option of reaching for the 2nd gun that is still in its holster instead of chancing the gun that got dropped has a load of dirt in the barrel from its fall. To some extent some people carry 2 handguns because their spouse does not like to carry but is proficient with a handgun. So if something happens the spouse gets one of the guns. I have never had to draw my gun with the intent of using it I hope it stays that way. I generally carry a 1911 iwb and a snubby in my pants pocket. When sitting the snubby is hard to get to but the 1911 is not too bad. I accept that ammo, magazines, or the firearm itself can fail so that is part of why I want a backup gun. The s&w 642 is nice and light and is not a big deal for me to carry. The 1911 takes a good holster and better belt than what I have right now, but I make due with what I have and am going to order a real gun belt soon because other stuff just does not do the job very well for very long.

April 2, 2007, 07:09 PM	#17
JazzyD Junior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Posts: 4	I don't even own two guns. I guess I'm sc*wed.....

April 3, 2007, 07:40 PM	#18
DeathRodent Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2006 Posts: 209	Kris I don't CCW but I can imagine why I would carry 2 guns if I could carry. One would be a small revolver or pistol depending on the circumstances - the other might be a smaller gun for weak side access - say the BG gets a hold of you and you cannot get to your gun with your right arm (and you are right handed) if you have a small BUG (back up gun) even if its a small .32 acp NAA pistol you could grab it with your other hand and end the problem. 2 hands = 2 guns or, your bug is a small .22 NAA single action revolver very last resort (IMO) but so small you can easily carry it in your left back pocket and a J frame .38 in your front right pocket - you probably wouldn't need it but heck you probably wouldn't need even one so what - murphy's law and all that. __________________ You cannot arm slaves and expect them to remain slaves, nor can you disarm a free people and expect them to remain free.

April 14, 2007, 12:08 PM	#20
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	I carry revolvers. Due to nerve damage in one arm I'm pretty much one-handed as far as fine motor skills go. So: IF I carried a semi, and it jammed, I'm screwed. If I need to do a reload, I'd be pretty slow, regardless of action type. So: I've decided on carrying two revolvers. I can draw that second gun much faster that I can reload either a semi or revolver. And two revolvers on oppisite sides are no more total weight, or worse balance than a semi on one side with a mag or 2 on the other. How's that? __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

April 14, 2007, 01:17 PM	#21
revjen45 Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 626	I agree with the posts which support carrying a main gun + a BUG in a position in which you can have your hand on it. I carry a 10-shot 9mm OWB @ 4 o'clock (2 extra mags) + a 5-shot .38 snubbie in a back pocket or the pocket of a canvas vest. The 9mm has always functioned perfectly, but Murphy's law will always kick in at the worst possible time. Also, the fact that I can have my hand on the .38 without exposing it is a big help.