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Old November 12, 2017, 11:12 PM   #1
Mississippi
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Annealing Straight walled cases

I'm relatively new to annealing straight walled cases.

How far down the case do y'all generally try and anneal. For instance, on bottle neck cases, I put 750 Tempilaq inside the neck, and 700 Tempilaq just below the shoulder junction, where i try to only just melt both, then immediately remove it from the heat.

So with a straight walled case, do you go just below where the bullet generally stops (down in the case) when you seat it? Obviously most of the brass working is done at or just below the mouth with flairing and crimping (lever guns and revolvers).

Also, is the frequency recommendation the same as bottle neck cartridges? I ask because flairing and crimping back down is more brass work than I typically do in bottle neck cartridges.
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Old November 13, 2017, 06:34 AM   #2
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It seems the general consensus is that straight walled cases don't really need to be annealed as there isn't that much movement in the brass as there is in bottleneck cases. Perhaps 45-70 cases or the like do, but I don't shoot those.

I have some 45 ACP brass that I have lost count of the number of reloads. I have had a few 38/357 cases split but I catch them in my cleaning process.

I do anneal my rifle cases but not pistol. YMMV.
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Old November 13, 2017, 06:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
It seems the general consensus is that straight walled cases don't really need to be annealed as there isn't that much movement in the brass as there is in bottleneck cases.
Years ago I found that when using heavy loads and Keith-type cast lead bullets with their excessive crimping groove, that at some point of the shoot-handload cycle the mouths would begin to crack. When one cracked in a lot of fifty cases, annealing would save the others. I used the very imprecise method of de-priming, setting in a pan of water halfway up their length, then heating the mouths until just before the mouth turned red, tipped them over in the water. Crude, but it worked.

Over the years I also learned to use a minimum flare and only as much crimp as was evident on factory loads in order to not over-work the brass.
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Old November 13, 2017, 07:29 AM   #4
mehavey
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Starline's 45-70 & 38-55 cases both need annealing to seal well when used at BP pressures. (In fact Starline even tells you that[!] )

I just use the 750 Tempilaq inside the mouth as does the OP, w/ the flame about 1.5x-2x the seating depth (roughly)

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...57&postcount=1
and https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=14
and https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=17
and https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=18

Last edited by mehavey; November 13, 2017 at 07:46 AM.
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Old November 13, 2017, 07:30 AM   #5
jetinteriorguy
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If by straight walled brass your referring to revolver magnums, it's really not needed. I have some .41 brass that's well over 20 years old and reloaded countless times. A good way to minimize brass failure is minimal flaring, and use Lee collet crimp dies for crimping.
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Old November 13, 2017, 07:32 AM   #6
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Other than black powder low pressure loads, it's pretty much a complete waste of time in a straight walled case. I know guys who do it, but I've never been able to see where it did them any good.
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Old November 13, 2017, 08:20 AM   #7
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Agree totally with mehavey.

For the large straight BP carts like Sharps, and other obscure carts such as 11.7 Danish and rare carts fired Brit Express doubles, annealing is highly recommended due to heavy crimping required. Consider one empty case can cost upward of $10 each if you can find them.
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Old November 13, 2017, 08:27 AM   #8
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No crimping is required on a Sharps...it's a single shot.
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Old November 13, 2017, 10:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
It seems the general consensus is that straight walled cases don't really need to be annealed as there isn't that much movement in the brass as there is in bottleneck cases. Perhaps 45-70 cases or the like do, but I don't shoot those.
My question wasn't on the merits of annealing straight walled rifle brass. My question was on setup, and how far down to anneal.


Thanks Mehavy...Those pics helped. I have an annealing machine so no need to do it by hand anymore. But You confirmed what I thought to be true.
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Old November 13, 2017, 03:12 PM   #10
T. O'Heir
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Straight walled cases will crack at the case mouth before annealing is required. Annealing is not an every time thing with any case either.
Anyway, 750 Tempilaq is too hot. Brass anneals at 650 to 700F.
Read this.
http://bisonballistics.com/articles/...rass-annealing
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Old November 13, 2017, 04:07 PM   #11
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Missisippi:

Keep in mind tempilaq paint on has metal in it. An induction heater is faked out.

Its an obvious question to figure out how to direct the answer.

As noted, I shot a lot of 41 and never had one crack.

I didn't know about the rifle end though.
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Old November 13, 2017, 06:54 PM   #12
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RC20

I use an open flame annealing machine. It works well enough for me. And several of the guys on my competition shooting circuit use the same machine. It seems like you may have thought I used an induction annealer? Or am I misreading you comment?

Anyway. Part of why I anneal is consistent bullet hold/release. A while back I noticed that as my brass accumulated firings, it would gradually produce worse groups. This despite all batches coming from the same lot of primers/powder/bullets/rifle/shooter. Once I began annealing at least every 3rd firing, this issue went away. I firmly believe it was differences in neck work hardness.

With the 45-70 getting worked even harder at the mouth than a bottle neck cartridge, I'm afraid of the same issue. So I intend to anneal it......and also obviously to avoid neck splits.
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Old November 15, 2017, 06:07 PM   #13
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Could not remember and the heads up was for those with Induction annealers.

Get it on the 45-70, new to me but I never did long walled rifle let alone that round.
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Old November 16, 2017, 09:31 AM   #14
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I have a 32-40 and shoot lead cast so the case pressures are intentionally held low. No crimp just my seater dies heaviest swage. Even so over time the case mouths do work harden and crack I suppose do to the heat & die squeezings. So. _ require a very petite in area depth annealing every decade or so and never ever been vibrated clean. Being I've been shooting the same batch brass beyond my retirement time. That is 17 years. The exact amount of time such brass was put in service I really don't know? as I bought said 32 in a Bar one evening from a friendly Bartender when Deer Hunting and was a bit inebriated at the time.
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Old November 17, 2017, 06:58 PM   #15
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Just a thought here, maybe anneal them about as far down as you seat your bullets.
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Old November 17, 2017, 07:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Just a thought here, maybe anneal them about as far down as you seat your bullets


That's pretty much what I intend to do unless I find out somewhere that I should be doing it differently. If I anneal down to where the bullet stops, it will be about 3/4" down the case from the mouth...... which is less than half way down the case so that should be at least safe.
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Old November 19, 2017, 02:01 PM   #17
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If it helps, this is new Hornady brass and a factory round showing their annealing. It ought to give you a good reference.
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