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Old October 29, 2017, 04:14 PM   #1
stagpanther
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1st test of labradar

Couldn't help myself--despite developing storm winds I decided to go out and test my new labradar--I just happened to have whipped up a new test ladder of 90 gr sciroccos for new 6mm creedmoor build.



First off, let me say this is the most fun you can have with your earplugs on! Despite what I read and heard--took me all of about 90 seconds to get it set up and positioned next to my gun. Menu system is pretty intuitive and setting the settings was very easy.

Everything worked fine, except for a couple of "rookie mistakes" I made. Because I was worried (unnecessarily) about battery drain--I turned the unit off between each series of shots. Naturally, on half the series I forgot to arm the radar before taking the first shot. Yup--duh x 3. I finally said the heck with it and adjusted the settings to keep the screen and radar armed long enough to shoot the whole series. Related to this--the only small quips I have are 1) it would be nice to have a stopwatch counter on the display; and 2) It would also be nice to have a "armed" and "not armed" text field on the display--mostly for old dotards like me who can't get the hang of pushing the button to arm automatically.

Shooting is so fun with the radar I forgot to really time my shots--and also didn't notice that the timing sleeve on the atlas compensator was loose and rotating--changing the muzzle timing. Oh well.

Here's 42.4 grs of RL 17 driving 90gr sciroccos



And the corresponding data download


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20171029_151640_HDR.jpg (166.8 KB, 484 views)
File Type: jpg 42.4 RL7 90 scirocco 6mm creedmoor.jpg (102.2 KB, 457 views)
File Type: jpg 6mm creedmoor 42.4 RL7 90 gr scirocco.jpg (107.9 KB, 481 views)
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Old October 29, 2017, 04:21 PM   #2
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Glad you enjoy it. I like mine a lot.

The only problem with setting up in a storm is the risk of the unit being blown over or off the bench (I use their flat plate accessory). I suppose you could train a dog to drag it back for you. Of course, he'd be called a Labradar Retriever.
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Old October 29, 2017, 05:09 PM   #3
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Oh, that’s awful. Worse even that the magician dog...the Labracadabrador.
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Old October 29, 2017, 05:19 PM   #4
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The only problem with setting up in a storm is the risk of the unit being blown over or off the bench (I use their flat plate accessory). I suppose you could train a dog to drag it back for you. Of course, he'd be called a Labradar Retriever.
dah dah dah dah dum!
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Old October 29, 2017, 05:21 PM   #5
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BTW--do you know hat PF1 is? the manual mentions power factor is a function of velocity x something--but I can't figure out what it is.
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Old October 29, 2017, 05:34 PM   #6
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Another REALLY cool thing is I can cross check my QL data for safety/accuracy. The 6mm creed isn't in the QL database so I jiggered the 6.5 creed data to get as close as I could for the 243. I just checked the load data for QL against the labradar results for this charge--QL returns 3138 fps which is very very close to the mean from the labradar data.
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Old October 29, 2017, 05:39 PM   #7
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Aaaaand another cool thing--the manual says tracking ability for a boattail 243 is only good to 50 yds--but with a little maneuvering I was able to get the track out to 75 yds on over half the shots--though I suspect that might go away with higher velocities.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:51 PM   #8
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Sweet, except, now I have to buy one. ;(
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Old October 31, 2017, 03:19 PM   #9
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The bench top plate mount came in today and I went out to the range to test it--things did not go well. The sensors are so high--relative to the gun position--that I found unless the bench you're using is pretty low you'll end up spending tons of time messing with bags to raise the weapon position.

Back to the tripod next time out.
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Old October 31, 2017, 04:03 PM   #10
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grats on the new unit.. I don't mean to derail but is the wood block your rear rest when shooting ?
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Old October 31, 2017, 04:19 PM   #11
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I don't mean to derail but is the wood block your rear rest when shooting
In this case--yes--I'm actually shooting downhill so I needed some extra elevation at the rear--otherwise I usually use bags rear and front.
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Old October 31, 2017, 05:46 PM   #12
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okies...

On my CE chrono remote software you are enter the weight of the bullet in the software and PF is the power factor. Probably same thing on your unit
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Old October 31, 2017, 07:03 PM   #13
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On my CE chrono remote software you are enter the weight of the bullet in the software and PF is the power factor. Probably same thing on your unit
I'm just trying to figure out how to make sense of it--Kinetic energy delivered--I get. PF1 285--what does that mean--compared to what?
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Old October 31, 2017, 08:16 PM   #14
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PF is the bullet's weight multiplied by the velocity and divided by 1000. It is used in pistol competition to prevent shooters from using powder puff loads to minimize muzzle jump. At the larger action pistol matches they will have you shoot over a chrony to make sure you meet the requirements. Occasionally the pistol reloaders here will have a thread about it.

Nothing to really concern yourself over unless you are just curious or participate in the run and gun events
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Old October 31, 2017, 09:42 PM   #15
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Right. PF on a chrono is just a convenience for folks competing in IPSC matches which put your ammo in either minor or major power factor categories. The C and D scoring zones are given an extra point if the power factor is major. You can read the Wikipedia entry on it.
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Old November 1, 2017, 02:53 AM   #16
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Thanks very much--I guess that's aimed at extended the utility to matches--of which I've never competed in. However, I'm always interested in what any data means if I can improve my load's performance.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:49 AM   #17
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The PF number is merely proportional to momentum, but 225.2183 times bigger than the Imperial unit would be. The idea is that since momentum is equal and opposite upon firing, it serves as an indirect indicator of potential muzzle flip. Since IPSC events are timed, a gun that is harder to get back on target reduces the number of hits you can get in a given time period. The added points are to try to level the playing field in that regard. The problem with this idea is that not all guns flip as much for a given chambering as others. The lighter the gun or the higher the bore line above the grip frame or the greater the portion of the momentum that winds up in the slide, the more they tend flip up. So you can go out there with a heavy, low slide momentum, low bore line gun with a compensator on it and wind up having no more flip than minor loads do in some guns. That's why you see all the "race guns" built for these matches.

There are some oddball points to consider. The calculation in the U.S. is weight in grains times velocity in ft/s divided by 1000 for IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, and SASS. For the first three, the result is always rounded down to the nearest whole number. In SASS the number is not rounded down and the first digit after the decimal place is retained. In TSA matches, the calculation does not divide by 1000 and all the whole numbers are used.

If you divide the raw (pre-rounding) PF number by 225.2183, you have momentum in the normal Imperial unit of slug-feet/second.
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Old November 1, 2017, 09:13 AM   #18
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My CE Pro Chrono Digital suffered a bullet wound this week.
I am back to my CED Millennium which has a lot of bells and whistles but takes longer to connect everything and is not as sensitive on bullet pickup.

I would definitely get a LabRadar if I were doing as much chronographing as I used to.

Power factoring in the action pistol sports goes back to when the Major-Minor divide was established by shooting a ballistic pendulum with the shortest .45 barrel at hand - normally a Commander or Star PD. Consumer chronographs simplified things considerably.
In those early days, there was little contribution of gun design to muzzle rise.
You shot a .45 1911 for Major or a 9mm Browning for Minor. There just wasn't the wide choice in guns and add-on compensators and other gimmicks.
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Old November 1, 2017, 09:19 AM   #19
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Gone are the good old days when you would simply count 25 paces, turn and fire.
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Old November 2, 2017, 10:02 AM   #20
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Yes. Nowadays, you would need duel chronographs to prepare for that.
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Old November 2, 2017, 09:54 PM   #21
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I've had mine a year now and thousands of rounds measured by it. No issues at all! I use a auxiliary power pack like what is used for cell phones, works perfect.
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Old November 3, 2017, 01:15 AM   #22
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Actually, I've run into a couple of "issues" already--looks like my honeymoon may be over. lol

I went out and tested a couple of new loads for my AR47. After setting everything up--I couldn't get any shots from the first ladder to be recorded by the unit--seemingly no matter what I did. I positioned the rifle in what I thought was exactly the same way as I did my creedmoor build, but nothing would record--even when I backed the muzzle to within 6 inches of the sensor. I never got the "couldn't acquire" error read-out. (I've read the instructions through repeatedly). The unit basically sat there waiting for a shot.

I finally moved the barrel closer to the unit laterally--meaning the barrel itself was only a couple of inches to the side of the sensor--and then the unit successfully started to acquire and record the shots. I'll have to repeat the entire ladder of shots.

Another issue: while testing a ladder of hand-loads I like to start a new series for each different load since each set of cartridges have different charge weights. Try as I might--I couldn't figure out how to start a new series from the screen that was currently recording one--there was no way to get back to the menu screen and then push the series button to start a new series without turning the unit off and restarting it--unless I'm missing something. Unclenick??
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Old November 3, 2017, 04:19 PM   #23
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So I just got off the phone with Richard at TCK LLC who very kindly and patiently answered my questions.

Point one; the existing manual is a little shy on up-to-date info--the ability to trigger a record is dependent on the unit achieving and surpassing the "shockwave impulse threshold" from the muzzle--I mistakenly was following the image in the manual which placed the off-set in front of the unit--rather than the side, so I will try that out next time.



Then I whined about the necessity of restarting the unit in order to start a new series while in an existing series window--the "secret decoder ring" formula is depress and hold the arm button for 3 seconds and it will enable you to go from a current series to the menu option allowing a new series to be created.

All is good in the jungle again.
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Old November 4, 2017, 08:59 AM   #24
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I created an Excel macro for my LBR data. It formats the data to make it look better, and does the actual calculations in real time rather than just using the LBR calculations.

The reason for for the real time calculations is that I have had a time or two when an extra piece of data will be captured, possibly from another shooter.

For example, I will shoot 10 rounds, and when I look at the data, there are 11 pieces of data, with the 11th string obviously off from the rest. I can now delete the 11th shot, and all of the data fields are recalculated automatically in real time.

I also created spaces to enter the load and weather data, which helps my old brain remember what I shot!

I added a button to the tool bar that runs the macro, so I just load the LBR data, press the button, and VOILA! Instant format!!!

The box outlined in red below (I added that in Paint, it is not in the actual spreadsheet obviously) is the section that I use to copy and paste into forum posts when I am posting results from load testing. You can see that data posted below the image.




Copy and pasted data:

Bullet Type: RMR JHP
Bullet Weight: 124
Powder: TG
Weight: 4.1
COAL: 1.06
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Mixed

Stats - Average 1054.00
Stats - Highest 1072.00
Stats - Lowest 1026.00
Stats - Ext. Spread 46.00
Stats - Std. Dev 15.72

Avg Power Factor 129.58

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Old November 4, 2017, 09:20 AM   #25
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does the actual calculations in real time rather than just using the LBR calculations.
That looks very cool--but I don't understand what you mean by this?
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