Ghost rings and long distance slugs

DCV · September 22, 2000, 12:59 AM

does anyone have a combo of ghost rings like a mossberg 590 and shot slugs. I like to know what you can hit at what distance

Dave McC · September 22, 2000, 05:38 AM

DCV, i use peep sights on my HD and deer 870s. Unscrewing the aperture makes it a "Ghost Ring" sight. These are Williams and Lyman peeps, sturdy and durable.

Since Md deer hunting tends to be close shots in thick cover, I sight in at 50 yards. Typical groups with slugs of choice at that distance run about 2 1/2" with either one.

Anything much over 50 yards, I'll reach for a rifle. The right tool for the right job.

TritonCartridge · September 22, 2000, 08:05 AM

As with any fixed sight you can regulate the sight/gun for a specific cartridge to zero at a specific range... much like a double rifle is regulated for a specific load. For a shotgun and ghost ring defense shotgun alot of people regulate for a 75 yard zero.

If the gun comes equipted with a Ghost Ring you try different brand slugs and see which one zeros the best and at what range. Alot of trial and error but usually you will find the right combo.

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[This message has been edited by TritonCartridge (edited September 22, 2000).]

CQB1 · September 22, 2000, 11:05 AM

One of my partners has a Mossberg 590A1 with the factory ghost ring sight system. With it he can hit, with no problems, out to the max. effective range of a std. 1oz. slug, which is approx. 125 yds. Beyond 125 yds. the slug peters out pretty fast. I believe he has his sighted in for point of aim/point of impact at 50 yds. as that is about the max. range in his tactical environment.

------------------
CQB Solutions
Equipment, training, & technology for law enforcement & corrections tactical teams.
cqbsolutions.com
[email protected]

mib2000 · September 22, 2000, 11:01 PM

I'd agree with the other right-on-the money posters to your query.

In case you are weighing this shotgun sighting option...

Would only add that I've found the ghost ring sights to make a significant difference in my ability to get good hits with slugs at distance vs. a plain bead. They also aid in speedy targeting and more accurate hitting with buckshot, too -- a very worthwhile modification to a defensive or tactical shotgun, in my opinion.

I have the Scattergun Technology front ramp sight with tritium "nightsight" insert, and the MMC fully adjustable/protected rear ghost ring. Both makers have Web sites; run a search if you are interested. Vang Comp Systems, top-notch shotgun 'smiths, installs both makes; Scattergun Technology (Wilson Combat) of course handles their own line. Their version of the rear ghost ring is good, too. Not quite as robust as the MMC and not quite as adjustable, I think, but certainly serviceable. It's called the Track Lok, if memory serves.

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Check chamber,
mib2000

Badger Arms · September 23, 2000, 05:50 PM

I prefer Remington Slugger slugs. As Dave pointed out, it's a good idea to use a Williams Peep Sight on your HD gun. These are fairly easy to install on Remington Style receivers by any competent gunsmith. I've got a 21" Barrel Remington which I load up with Remingtons Slugger's in the Sidesaddle and 12 pellet 00 in the mag tube. Empty chamber. Since my gun has a mid-rib bead, I never have used any rear sight. It's accurate enough for me. I get about 8" groups at a realistic 25 yards. Beyond that, I don't consider anything to be a real threat as I live in a suburb. In a rural area, I'd use a 30/30 or SKS for home defense.

------------------
God made us in his own image.
Thomas Jefferson made us free.
John Browning made us equal.

Without Browning, we might not know about the other two...

Dave McC · September 24, 2000, 08:53 AM

Since I've experience in both deer hunting with slugs andf the tactical/HD/Police type stuff, let me add a few things to the thread about slugs. Like our learned Moderator says, try different slugs to see what works best for your shotgun.

We could take two identical shotguns with consecutive SNs off the assembly line, set them up identically, shoot them and find that the slug that groups best in one groups worst in the other. As a very loose rule,fully rifled bbls do best with a sabot style load, rifled tube and smoothbore bbls do better with either Brennekes or the older Forster type slugs,but it is a VERY loose rule.

On deer sized game, ALL are quite effective when placed properly. For Tactical/ police considerations, the Brennekes are a great penetrator,and have some worth for breeching.

Note:

A full rifled shotgun is more of a sspecialized sporting tool than a police/ tactical/HD tool. One loses the versatility that's a big plus to the shotgun. My deer 870 has a rifled tube in it for deer season, and either a Modified or SKT II tube when it serves as a backup HD shotgun the rest of the year.

Again, nothing but bench work can determine just what is best for you and your shotgun. Buy a variety of slugs in the 5 packs, shoot some groups,and figure out what is your tightest shooting slug. Set your zero, and then clean the shotgun w/o taking it down.

Also, is this a slug shooter or a buck shot shooter? If the primary mission for the shotgun is the use of shot, it may be better to zero for the shot, then figure out through benching where the slugs will impact. ALL shotguns I've checked have different POIs for slugs and buck, most impact buck lower than slugs. Again, no surety w/o testing.

Shawn Dodson · September 24, 2000, 10:34 PM

I have 2 barrels for my 870: one has a bead sight and the other has rifle sights. Both have been Van Comp'd. The bead sight barrel is ported whereas the rifle sighted barrel is not. Both are 18" long.

I can hit IPSC cardboard targets with the bead sighted barrel out to 50 yards with regularity. A little Kentucky windage is required, and it took me a few tries to get it right, but I don't have any problems at 50 yards.

Beyond 50 yards I use the barrel with the rifle sights. I replaced the factory Remington sights with MMC tritum rifle sights. They're okay. I've zeroed them for 100 yards using 1 oz. Federal Premium slugs. (I sure wish somebody would make 7/8 oz. slugs again!) I've no problems hitting the steel "ringer" target on our shooting range, which is 200 yards away. (But this requires about 4 feet of holdover.) Anyhow, I plan on replacing the MMC tritium sights with Ashley Express tritum rifle sights.

I prefer rifle sights, which are mounted directly on the barrel versus the ghost ring set-up with rear sight on the receiver and the front sight on the barrel. (Just a personal thing.) You should be able to perform as well as I do with ghost ring sights. I believe 100 yards is a realistic maximum distance for slugs.

------------------
/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com

Dave McC · September 25, 2000, 03:53 AM

Shawn, FYI, the old Remington 7/8 oz 12 ga slugs would rarely exit deer on broadside chest hits. Usually they would be found up against the farside ribs, and flattened into about a silver dollar size/shape.

If you want to roll your own, Lyman still makes a mold for the 7/8 oz slug, I believe.

Agreed on 100 yards.

DaMan · September 25, 2000, 09:34 AM

I'm with Shawn. I wish they would bring back the 7/8 oz. FACTORY 12 ga. slug loadings.

Dave, I looked in the Ballistic Products, Inc. catalog and they don't list the Lyman 7/8 oz. Foster 12 ga. They only list the 475gr. (1 1/16oz) Foster. However, Lee still makes the 7/8 oz. Foster.

I load my own buckshot, but I draw the line at slugs. Too much trouble, not any savings, and it's really hard to improve on the factory slug loadings.

Maybe somebody can talk me out of my opinion on slug loading. I've been thinking about getting set up with roll crimping equipment for some time now.

Regards! DaMan

LIProgun · September 25, 2000, 10:37 AM

I too like the rifle sights out on the barrel. I replaced the Rem factory sights with Meprolight tritiums, and I painted a white ring around the front tritium dot. Works well in light or dark, and I have little problem hitting with slugs out to 100 yards.

Lately I've been testing out both Remington's Reduced Recoil slug, and Federal's Tactical Slug, and they have much less recoil than standard rifled slugs. Accuracy is fine too.

Dave McC · September 25, 2000, 11:02 AM

DaMan, the idea of doing my own slugs doesn't set me on fire either. I doubt that I'll use 10 slugs this year,so that's not much return on the investment.

My only concern with the 7/8 oz slug is this. And it's only pertaining to hunting, not police or defense usage. Is it enough for a quick and humane kill? As to my ancient recollections with the older slugs, the newer and heavier ones seem to make shorter blood trails.

As for tactical use, I'm all for them,if they're the tool for the job. I've no personal experience to say when they are.

September 22, 2000, 12:59 AM	#1
DCV Member Join Date: November 16, 1999 Posts: 43	does anyone have a combo of ghost rings like a mossberg 590 and shot slugs. I like to know what you can hit at what distance

September 22, 2000, 05:38 AM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	DCV, i use peep sights on my HD and deer 870s. Unscrewing the aperture makes it a "Ghost Ring" sight. These are Williams and Lyman peeps, sturdy and durable. Since Md deer hunting tends to be close shots in thick cover, I sight in at 50 yards. Typical groups with slugs of choice at that distance run about 2 1/2" with either one. Anything much over 50 yards, I'll reach for a rifle. The right tool for the right job.

September 22, 2000, 08:05 AM	#3
TritonCartridge Member Join Date: July 28, 1999 Posts: 98	As with any fixed sight you can regulate the sight/gun for a specific cartridge to zero at a specific range... much like a double rifle is regulated for a specific load. For a shotgun and ghost ring defense shotgun alot of people regulate for a 75 yard zero. If the gun comes equipted with a Ghost Ring you try different brand slugs and see which one zeros the best and at what range. Alot of trial and error but usually you will find the right combo. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TritonCartridge (edited September 22, 2000).]

September 22, 2000, 11:05 AM	#4
CQB1 Member Join Date: September 20, 2000 Posts: 16	One of my partners has a Mossberg 590A1 with the factory ghost ring sight system. With it he can hit, with no problems, out to the max. effective range of a std. 1oz. slug, which is approx. 125 yds. Beyond 125 yds. the slug peters out pretty fast. I believe he has his sighted in for point of aim/point of impact at 50 yds. as that is about the max. range in his tactical environment. ------------------ CQB Solutions Equipment, training, & technology for law enforcement & corrections tactical teams. cqbsolutions.com [email protected]

September 22, 2000, 11:01 PM	#5
mib2000 Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 25	I'd agree with the other right-on-the money posters to your query. In case you are weighing this shotgun sighting option... Would only add that I've found the ghost ring sights to make a significant difference in my ability to get good hits with slugs at distance vs. a plain bead. They also aid in speedy targeting and more accurate hitting with buckshot, too -- a very worthwhile modification to a defensive or tactical shotgun, in my opinion. I have the Scattergun Technology front ramp sight with tritium "nightsight" insert, and the MMC fully adjustable/protected rear ghost ring. Both makers have Web sites; run a search if you are interested. Vang Comp Systems, top-notch shotgun 'smiths, installs both makes; Scattergun Technology (Wilson Combat) of course handles their own line. Their version of the rear ghost ring is good, too. Not quite as robust as the MMC and not quite as adjustable, I think, but certainly serviceable. It's called the Track Lok, if memory serves. ------------------ Check chamber, mib2000

September 23, 2000, 05:50 PM	#6
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	I prefer Remington Slugger slugs. As Dave pointed out, it's a good idea to use a Williams Peep Sight on your HD gun. These are fairly easy to install on Remington Style receivers by any competent gunsmith. I've got a 21" Barrel Remington which I load up with Remingtons Slugger's in the Sidesaddle and 12 pellet 00 in the mag tube. Empty chamber. Since my gun has a mid-rib bead, I never have used any rear sight. It's accurate enough for me. I get about 8" groups at a realistic 25 yards. Beyond that, I don't consider anything to be a real threat as I live in a suburb. In a rural area, I'd use a 30/30 or SKS for home defense. ------------------ God made us in his own image. Thomas Jefferson made us free. John Browning made us equal. Without Browning, we might not know about the other two...

September 24, 2000, 08:53 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Since I've experience in both deer hunting with slugs andf the tactical/HD/Police type stuff, let me add a few things to the thread about slugs. Like our learned Moderator says, try different slugs to see what works best for your shotgun. We could take two identical shotguns with consecutive SNs off the assembly line, set them up identically, shoot them and find that the slug that groups best in one groups worst in the other. As a very loose rule,fully rifled bbls do best with a sabot style load, rifled tube and smoothbore bbls do better with either Brennekes or the older Forster type slugs,but it is a VERY loose rule. On deer sized game, ALL are quite effective when placed properly. For Tactical/ police considerations, the Brennekes are a great penetrator,and have some worth for breeching. Note: A full rifled shotgun is more of a sspecialized sporting tool than a police/ tactical/HD tool. One loses the versatility that's a big plus to the shotgun. My deer 870 has a rifled tube in it for deer season, and either a Modified or SKT II tube when it serves as a backup HD shotgun the rest of the year. Again, nothing but bench work can determine just what is best for you and your shotgun. Buy a variety of slugs in the 5 packs, shoot some groups,and figure out what is your tightest shooting slug. Set your zero, and then clean the shotgun w/o taking it down. Also, is this a slug shooter or a buck shot shooter? If the primary mission for the shotgun is the use of shot, it may be better to zero for the shot, then figure out through benching where the slugs will impact. ALL shotguns I've checked have different POIs for slugs and buck, most impact buck lower than slugs. Again, no surety w/o testing.

September 24, 2000, 10:34 PM	#8
Shawn Dodson Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,030	I have 2 barrels for my 870: one has a bead sight and the other has rifle sights. Both have been Van Comp'd. The bead sight barrel is ported whereas the rifle sighted barrel is not. Both are 18" long. I can hit IPSC cardboard targets with the bead sighted barrel out to 50 yards with regularity. A little Kentucky windage is required, and it took me a few tries to get it right, but I don't have any problems at 50 yards. Beyond 50 yards I use the barrel with the rifle sights. I replaced the factory Remington sights with MMC tritum rifle sights. They're okay. I've zeroed them for 100 yards using 1 oz. Federal Premium slugs. (I sure wish somebody would make 7/8 oz. slugs again!) I've no problems hitting the steel "ringer" target on our shooting range, which is 200 yards away. (But this requires about 4 feet of holdover.) Anyhow, I plan on replacing the MMC tritium sights with Ashley Express tritum rifle sights. I prefer rifle sights, which are mounted directly on the barrel versus the ghost ring set-up with rear sight on the receiver and the front sight on the barrel. (Just a personal thing.) You should be able to perform as well as I do with ghost ring sights. I believe 100 yards is a realistic maximum distance for slugs. ------------------ /s/ Shawn Dodson Firearms Tactical Institute http://www.firearmstactical.com

September 25, 2000, 03:53 AM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Shawn, FYI, the old Remington 7/8 oz 12 ga slugs would rarely exit deer on broadside chest hits. Usually they would be found up against the farside ribs, and flattened into about a silver dollar size/shape. If you want to roll your own, Lyman still makes a mold for the 7/8 oz slug, I believe. Agreed on 100 yards.

September 25, 2000, 09:34 AM	#10
DaMan Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2000 Posts: 222	I'm with Shawn. I wish they would bring back the 7/8 oz. FACTORY 12 ga. slug loadings. Dave, I looked in the Ballistic Products, Inc. catalog and they don't list the Lyman 7/8 oz. Foster 12 ga. They only list the 475gr. (1 1/16oz) Foster. However, Lee still makes the 7/8 oz. Foster. I load my own buckshot, but I draw the line at slugs. Too much trouble, not any savings, and it's really hard to improve on the factory slug loadings. Maybe somebody can talk me out of my opinion on slug loading. I've been thinking about getting set up with roll crimping equipment for some time now. Regards! DaMan

September 25, 2000, 10:37 AM	#11
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	I too like the rifle sights out on the barrel. I replaced the Rem factory sights with Meprolight tritiums, and I painted a white ring around the front tritium dot. Works well in light or dark, and I have little problem hitting with slugs out to 100 yards. Lately I've been testing out both Remington's Reduced Recoil slug, and Federal's Tactical Slug, and they have much less recoil than standard rifled slugs. Accuracy is fine too.

September 25, 2000, 11:02 AM	#12
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	DaMan, the idea of doing my own slugs doesn't set me on fire either. I doubt that I'll use 10 slugs this year,so that's not much return on the investment. My only concern with the 7/8 oz slug is this. And it's only pertaining to hunting, not police or defense usage. Is it enough for a quick and humane kill? As to my ancient recollections with the older slugs, the newer and heavier ones seem to make shorter blood trails. As for tactical use, I'm all for them,if they're the tool for the job. I've no personal experience to say when they are.