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Old May 5, 2017, 11:27 PM   #26
db4570
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I had the exact same requirements you do, and I found just one gun that met them: the Bodyguard. I had some problems with reliability at first (you can see my discussion here and on the S&W forum) but have since solved them.

There is nothing else with the same size and action.

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Old May 6, 2017, 06:36 AM   #27
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If carrying my Bodyguard, Sig P 238, Kimber Micro, P 938, Glock 42, S&W Shield or Mustang ( yeah I have all of them and more) I have the personal training and mental conditioning to carry the firearm in a safe manner. The Bodyguard with safety off can be placed in a loose pocket without keys, change etc. accompanying it, the " cocked and locked" pistols I carry in a IWB Kydex holster--- cross draw and it melts into obscurity when carrying yet the pistol is readily accessible.
I am not thirty years old any longer and therefore will carefully weigh the situation prior to resorting to the use of a firearm if given that opportunity. I have no intention to struggle with a younger person as I no longer have that capability (retired LE and have had my share of physically taking resistive individuals to secure quarters (jail ) and the moment a life is placed in danger the weapon can be deployed, not as a threat but for actual use.
I do everything in my power at this stage of life to not allow myself to be in a confrontational state but if forced by another I do not intend to be a "statistic" on a forum or in the local newspaper.
In thirty years of active service and another ten in a part time basis for a PD I did not find myself in a situation where there was no choice but to take a human life and at this point in time I doubt that will become an issue but if it does I do not plan to be unprepared.
Most of you folks carrying self protection weapons will never use them against a human, but if forced I hope you have the mental preparation to take a life if necessary.
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Old May 6, 2017, 07:28 AM   #28
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I had the exact same requirements you do, and I found just one gun that met them: the Bodyguard.

There is nothing else with the same size and action.
I am coming to the same conclusion. I like that its hammer fired, I like that it has a safety, it will fit in my desantis holder that I use for my LCP, and the finish seems much more durable than the LCP (although I haven't had any rusting issues and I live at the beach with salt/sand everywhere). The only reason I got the LCP over the bodyguard originally was that I couldn't turn down a $200 pistol and had always wanted to try a micro gun like a keltec but just never had. Now I realize I like them because they carry so easily for me.
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Old May 6, 2017, 08:27 AM   #29
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I'd just stick with your LCP. Originally when I bought mine I was a little apprehensive.

Then I dry fired it a lot, and live fired it a fair bit. I came to the conclusion that the odds of accidentally pulling the trigger while this holstered gun was in my pocket are VERY slim.

The LCP has a fairly long, deliberate trigger pull. IMHO, that is safety enough. If not, all the other aforementioned options are good.

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Old May 6, 2017, 08:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by adamBomb View Post
and the finish seems much more durable than the LCP (although I haven't had any rusting issues and I live at the beach with salt/sand everywhere).

I have like battery acid sweat... so when I got my LCP, I sent it to CCR. They cera-plated the entire gun and magazines. If you have a CT grip, make sure to do the screws (they rust by just looking at them wrong). Very similar to NP3 Plus... but CCR is a little more affordable than Robar.



With the Magguts kit in all my magazine, that package fits in my back pocket and holds 15 rounds. My problem with .380 was mentioned earlier... but I wouldn't feel undergunned with that.

Only difference from the picture was CCR did the slide lock after that picture (needed to get new pins for them to take it down), and added a Hogue Handall.
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Old May 6, 2017, 08:56 AM   #31
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Can that conversion handle the pressure generated by the 9mm without unduly stressing the gun?
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Old May 6, 2017, 09:24 AM   #32
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Can that conversion handle the pressure generated by the 9mm without unduly stressing the gun?

People have been doing it for years with a metric crap ton of rounds through them... and S&W did make one prototype. Was sent to Wiley Clapp, who said nobody would ever buy one.

Personally, I don't run +P or anything somewhat hot. My carry load is 147 grain Hornady XTP. No issues with lockup or frame stretching, and accuracy is similar to .38s through it.
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Old May 6, 2017, 12:21 PM   #33
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Bodyguard is ordered from my local shop as they didn't have any in stock. Should be here later this week. Going to eventually pick up a 1911 style gun as I really liked the feel of the p238. Maybe a nice .40/.45 for home defense.
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Old May 6, 2017, 12:34 PM   #34
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The one thing with going with a gun with a safety is remembering to take it off. I've seen lots of people not get that down to instinct, and sit there squeezing a dead trigger. I prefer guns without a manual safety... and there usually is one or more internal safeties.
That is exactly why a DAO trigger like the LCP is in effect the "safest" way to pocket carry. As safe, or more so than most guns with a manual safety plus safer for the person carrying it if it is ever needed for self defense. No matter how much training, and oractice, in the stress of an attack it is completely possible to forget the safety, or miss it when you try to disengage it.
It's worked quite well with revolvers for many, many years. Draw and fire, point and shoot. No mistakes to make with a safety lever.
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Old May 6, 2017, 01:12 PM   #35
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As safe, or more so than most guns with a manual safety plus safer for the person carrying it if it is ever needed for self defense.
Not if the gun gets taken away from you during a struggle. The safety would make the gun inactive for the bad guy until they figured it out and give you time to run or attack them. So there are disadvantages to not having a safety and disadvantages to having one. There is no perfect gun/set for every situation.

Last edited by adamBomb; May 6, 2017 at 01:26 PM.
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Old May 6, 2017, 02:59 PM   #36
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I had the same concerns and have tried the bodyguard while I think it is the safest for pocket carry I just never liked the trigger. I also have a GLOCK 42, a Kahr CM380 which I really like but it has reliability issues, Kimber Micro and the Colt Mustang. Like many I do not want to carry cock and locked.

I now have the LCPII with a Garrison trigger block and feel completely safe. I know many do not like that but too me it is the perfect answer. With practice it can be removed as quickly as releasing a safety and being next to the trigger not something you will likely forget to do.
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Old May 6, 2017, 03:22 PM   #37
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"You end up with a cocked single action pistol in your pocket with the safety off."

And this is exactly what you have with a loaded Glock in a pocket holster. A pistol which only needs to have its trigger pulled to go BANG!
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Old May 6, 2017, 06:22 PM   #38
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Not if the gun gets taken away from you during a struggle. The safety would make the gun inactive for the bad guy until they figured it out and give you time to run or attack them.
LOL. If they are close enough to take the gun away from you it's probably because you were fiddling around trying to release the safety instead of firing.
Manual safeties were never seen as necessary on a double action revolver for more than a century. They equally make no sense on a double action semi-auto.
But some people seem to think they are necessary, so there is a limited number of guns that have them.
I'll just stick to things I don't have to remember anything but point and pull the trigger with.
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Old May 7, 2017, 02:20 AM   #39
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Safetys on pocketable autos are tiny. Practice a LOT. At least to the point where you never, ever miss sweeping it off upon drawing. Speed comes later. My suggestion would have been Kimber Solo. It is 9mm and still small enough to be pocketable. And has a serious enough safety. But you could buy two bodyguards and ammo for what one cost.
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Old May 7, 2017, 08:30 AM   #40
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Guess im late to the conversation.

I just but my first pocket gun a little bit ago.. no range time yet.
Taurus 709 (9mm)
It has a glock style trigger and manual safety, striker fired with double strike capable.

I know some people slam Taurus and while I have no range time with this particular gun yet the fit and finish was quite good and I got mine for 170 shipped to dealer, I've since seen it for 160 shipped.. that my friend is in the upper range of a hi-point.

Oh and another thing about the Taurus is when you buy a gun from them you can get 1yr nra membership free, new or renewal.

The place that had the 159 deal is OOS but guns midwest has them for 161 and some change, I've never bought from them but I think shipping is free on guns.
https://www.gunsmidwest.com/tau-1709...m-9m-1mg-no-cs

Another option I looked at was the Bodyguard which it looks like you went with.
It looked like a nice gun but I have no direct exp with it.
I passed it up because I wanted a 9mm.. I don't have any .380's and didn't want to add another caliber to stock.

BTW I've seen the body guard on sale for 170 (after rebate) lately so don't forget you can collect 50 bucks back from S&W.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...er-109381.html
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Old May 9, 2017, 03:22 AM   #41
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Take a look at . . .

Take a look at the Bersa Thunder 380 CC. It's DA/SA with decocker/safety. Mine has had some "slide not staying back" issues and a stiff safety so it is in the warranty shop at the moment. But I really like it and it has everything I want in a CC gun.

I too have the cock and lock Sig P238. I can't get passed having the hammer cocked over a loaded chamber even though cognitively I know it is safe. So when I carry it there isn't one in the chamber. (Yeah I know, feel free to give me a hard time about it.) And I practice my draw to include racking the slide. As they say, "The gun you are comfortable carrying is better than no gun at all.)

Life is good.
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Old May 9, 2017, 10:06 AM   #42
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Not to veer away but I used to have concerns over cocked and locked. Long story short, my concerns were cured by MK III Browning Hi Powers. Then when I bought a P238 and read about it and saw how positive the safety detent is, my concerns dissipated. I've never had the safety budge in the slightest unless I moved it on purpose.
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Old May 9, 2017, 01:53 PM   #43
adamBomb
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Picked up the bodyguard today. Very cool gun. I will be heading to the range tomorrow to try it out. Now that I have both the LCP and Bodyguard, here are a few of the differences I noticed about them:

- Bodyguard is approx 2oz heavier. I weighed both unloaded and it was exactly 2oz heavier.
- Bodyguard is slightly bigger on paper but I cannot really eyeball the difference and both guns fit in my desantis pocket holster perfectly.
- Bodyguard has a much better finish - all stainless and black. LCP is available in stainless but I have the regular blue version, which apparently does have rust problems although I've not had any and I do live at the beach with salt air around me 24/7.
- Bodyguard has a safety (its an advantage to me but not for everyone)
- Bodyguard comes with 2 mags while the LCP came with 1
- Bodyguard has 2nd strike capability. Hopefully you never have to use it but nice its there.
- Bodyguard slide locks back after last shot just like normal sized gun, LCP is a manual one
-Both guns feel well put together.
- Bodyguards sites are definitely better but both are fine for me

Overall I think they are both good. If you don't care about a safety and 2nd strike capability the ruger in stainless would probably be better. If you care about the safety or 2nd strike capability then the bodyguard is better. The lcp is slightly cheaper at first glance but if you get the stainless and 2nd mag its the same.
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Old May 9, 2017, 02:16 PM   #44
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If you find that you don't like the body guard, another small pistol, but in 9mm I would vote for would be the Taurus PT709. It is also a 2 finger grip and very thin. It is a 9mm, but if you find you don't like the bodyguard, I would check it out. Taurus is also coming out with a super tiny rounded pistol, can't recall the name of it off the top of my head, but I can't really vouch for it since I've never used it.
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Old May 11, 2017, 08:45 AM   #45
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I Bought a Kimber Micro 9

I had very similar concerns plus some others which you can see in this Firing Line thread along with a considerable amount of discussion.

I ended up purchasing a Kimber Micro 9 in stainless. I love the pistol but am still getting used to having a cocked and locked pistol a couple of inches from the family jewels. I check the safety continuously and have never had a problem with it spontaneously coming off safe. (Perversely, I did have one range session out of about six so far when I had three instances of the pistol going ON safe while shooting. I am pretty sure my right thumb is interacting with the safety lever during recoil. I've changed my grip to lower my thumb but will need to fire a couple of hundred more rounds through it to have confidence that was the problem.
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Old May 11, 2017, 11:08 AM   #46
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I check the safety continuously
Constantly fidgeting with a gun in your pocket is never a good idea. If you are that nervous, and unsure of yourself you may want to consider other forms of SD.
Quote:
I had three instances of the pistol going ON safe while shooting. I am pretty sure my right thumb is interacting with the safety lever during recoil.
One of the primary reasons to not have a manual safety on a SD weapon. That only needs to happen once in a self defense situation, and nothing more will matter.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:23 PM   #47
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^^^^^Amen, Cheapshooter!! I have never had those kinds of issues with my PT111 G2, but I still find myself concerned with the idea that the safety could somehow get activated when I don't want it to be (I always carry with the safety off). That is the main reason I recently purchased a new gun to take it's place.
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Old May 12, 2017, 11:12 AM   #48
adamBomb
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Just an update. I got to the range today and put 100 rounds through both my LCP and Bodyguard to really compare them side by side. What a difference these two guns are to fire. Both aimed well and felt great to shoot. I could shoot each of them all day long.

As far as the trigger goes, there is definitely a big difference between the them. The LCP is much shorter than the bodyguard. The LCP felt more like my glock and Bodyguard felt more like my revolver. So that could really make a difference if you prefer one of those over the other. The slide locking back was definitely really nice on the SW. Otherwise both great little guns. No problems with either.
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Old May 12, 2017, 12:16 PM   #49
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As far as the trigger goes, there is definitely a big difference between the them. The LCP is much shorter than the bodyguard. The LCP felt more like my glock and Bodyguard felt more like my revolver.
How old is your LCP? Is it possibly an LCPII?
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Old May 12, 2017, 12:34 PM   #50
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Is it possibly an LCPII?
Yes it is the 2nd version.
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