Need help with old CVA percussion rifle

[Wendyj]

Strange CVA rifle. CVA Blazer. Has nipple at end of barrell like inline. Had it in safe about 15 years never fired. Looks as is someone cut a stock out and mounted barrel in it. No breech to unscrew. Couldn't find any Elephant ffg that I used years ago. Bought some triple seven and loaded up 70 grains in old brass funnel I had had for years. Weighed on a scale 70 grains would fill this almost twice. Cleaned barrel really good. Got air blowing through nipple after boiling in water and soap. Uses #11 percussion caps. Took five caps to ignite powder and still felt like old flintlock with hesitation before discharging conical ball. I don't care for the triple 7. Grains too large to get in my old powder horn. You think I might need new nipple or real blackpowder. This isn't working this way. Flash ole was clean as I fired four caps off at a leaf just to see it move. Any help would be appreciated.

[B.L.E.]

Never weigh Triple 7. Measure it with a volumetric powder measure. Because it has a different density than real black powder, it's scale weight is not going to agree with its volume using a powder measure. Going by weight will result in serious overcharges.
This also goes for Pyrodex and other fake black powders.
They were meant to be measured volumetrically. The only exception is the black powder cartridge data for Black Horn 209 where they specifically say that the charges are by weight.
The muzzle loading data for Black Horn 209 is by volume however.

[Wendyj]

I only use it it volume metric old brass funnel barrell charger. I really don't like this powder. I just weighed it to see what the volume was. Curiosity. It's too thick too my liking. Got to find some good old fashioned sulphur smelling powder. From what I experienced today it appears to also be hard to ignite. I played around with Tmompson center in line and pyroxene pellets for one deer season but way too expensive. 100 round balls are less than $20.00. Pre lubed patches $5.00. I am a little concerned. It appears this rifle may have faster twist than I prefer. Still have old Kentucky flintlock but it's just a wall hanger now. Flash pan powder has let me down in damp weather too many times. Have plenty modern rifles but traditional shooting is just a lot of fun. Need to find better percussion rifle I guess. Notice the trigger on this one is operated by a spring which doesn't appear to be in best condition. Still biggest concern is the delay of firing and taking 4-5 caps to finally set it off.

[Hawg]

Couldn't find any Elephant ffg that I used years ago

Be glad, that stuff was nasty.

[FrontierGander]

T7 and #11 nipples suck. Its completely unreliable.

If you want to use it, I highly suggest that you upgrade to a musket cap nipple.

My second muzzleloader was a .45cal cva blazer i built in kit form. One thing you should do is completely bed the rear section of the barrel by the breech. Recoil tends to crack them over a short period of time. Once its bedded, it will be good to go.

Pyrodex P would be better to use with #11 as its finer grade and sets off easier.

[Wendyj]

Frontier Gander. Do you know what your twist was? Trying to find some info to see if the 40 or 50 hollow points I had left from Thompson would shoot through this. Not a necessity. Just don't need them. I really just want to shoot 494 round ball and patch. You were talking about musket cap. Will trigger align to hit one squarely. Maybe 210 shotgun primer.

[FrontierGander]

If its hitting the #11 cap square now, it should do the same with the musket cap set up.

1:48 twist

[Wendyj]

Will that twist handle round ball and patch ok.

[B.L.E.]

One in 48 will shoot patched round balls just fine, even if it's not the ideal twist rate for round balls.
You can also put about 10 grains of real black powder in the barrel first and then put in the main charge of 777 for instant ignition. This is an old flintlock trick for people who are stuck with substitutes. In fact, Pyrodex actually directed people to do this in flintlocks when shooting Pyrodex as a main charge. The only caveat was to remember that the black powder igniting charge counted as a part of the total charge, so if you put in 10 grains of black powder downbore first, be sure to reduce the 777 or Pyrodex charge by that amount.

[H.W. French]

If you intend to hunt with it during primitive season a 209 conversion may not be legal in your state. I'd start with some legit black powder and troubleshoot from there.

[FrontierGander]

a 209 conversion with this rifle is not even possible. It will be #11 or musket caps only.

[Wendyj]

Pretty much everything is legal in this state. Few years back open sites only. Now scopes. Anything 22 caliber or above. Not rimfire. Hand guns used to be 500 lbs energy at 100 yards. Now they don't care. Georgia really lenient in laws and some of them not good or ethical. I looked at breech and you are correct. 209 primers wouldn't work. Was just trying to find a way not to waste a pond of triple seven. Going to get plain old blackpowder and some magnum 11 caps. I may have some bad caps too. They have been setting up for many years. I know the blackpowder is dirtier but range road and cleaning patches will clean it out. Old flintlock I have didn't ever see a factory cleaning patch. Run water in barrell. Swabbed out and treated with lard patch. Barrell looks better than this old thing.

[Pahoo]

Wendyj
I have been following your post and subsequent replies and have to admit that I am somewhat puzzled. I say this because I have been using 777-2F with the #11's for a number of years now, in our SideLock with good results. Oh, we get the normal infrequent Hang-fires and Miss-Fires, during our classes which cause little or no problems. We usually have about 50 students during our sessions. I was not available for our last class and later, one of our new instructors really had problems with this combination. He had no experience with SideLocks and switched to his MML. I just passed it off to lack of experience but now you folks have me wondering. ......


Thanks and;
Be Safe !!!

[Wendyj]

Big puzzle is its CVA blazer. Cap is in line instead of side lock. My preference would be side lock. Don't fire add a tad of powder under nipple and boom. I couldn't get a grain of powder in this one if I tried. Haven't found any magnum 11 percussion caps. Found plenty of musket nipples and no caps. I have a Thompson center in line but price of shooting is ridiculous. 100 495 round balls are $16.00. Looked at Buds and Gun brokers last night for CVA or Traditions Hawken. Can buy new knight in line for half the price. Hitting the pawn shops but they have pretty much quit buying them. They should buy and sell online from what I saw. Cabellas kit rifle almost $300.00. I found one store in 50 miles with a can of real black powder. Going to try that and new nipple although I can see light through mine.

[Wendyj]

Found a CVA hawken in good shape today at pawn shop. Cleaned up good but still doesn't ignite triple 7 very good. Off to buy real blackpowder.

[B.L.E.]

The more I used real black powder, the more I appreciated just how terrible it ain't.

I was at our local club's spring shoot a couple of years back and there was a new shooter using Triple 7 in his flintlock.
I invited him to try some of my real black powder and he couldn't believe how fast the flinter fired. He thought flintlocks were just supposed to go click-flash....................boom.
He ended buying himself a couple of pounds of real black from the shoot's vendor for that flintlock.

It's a shame it's such a PITA to buy. Before the substitutes were invented, at least the gun stores went through the trouble of keeping it in stock. Today, they just want to sell you Pyrodex or 777 and can't be bothered with the extra regulations regarding real black powder.

[FrontierGander]

its not a huge ordeal to get black powder. Many places online sell it and some even have the hazmat fee built in. When I make an order I'll easily order 25lbs as thats normally good enough for a little over a years worth of shooting. If you buy only 1 or 2 lbs, you just are not shooting enough and that gets expensive.

[Wendyj]

Found 2 one pound cans at bass pro. All my local stores tell me in order to carry it has to be separated in its own dept. room Ect or locked in safe. Most tell me they don't sell enough since in line craze. I've never really found it that hard to clean. In old days we spit on dry rag if no water. Run jag through until clean and treated with some lard. I still keep brass plate in flintlock full of lard and rub dry patch on it before loading ball. I missed a shot years ago when it was raining and the ffg in the flash pan didn't ignite. Big old 10 pointer heard click on rifle and was gone. Retired it for percussion. Usually put piece of black electric tape over muzzle if damp. With blackpowder I've had no failures. Unless when I started you count the one where I seated ball with no powder. Took better part of 6 hours to get that thing out. It will make you think before patching one up.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Elephant has not been made in years. I don't know why Hawg doesn't like it, I used it in cartridges for years and never had any problem with it.

You are correct about many stores not wanting to carry real Black Powder today. Since real Black Powder is a true low grade explosive, rather than a progressively burning propellant, many jurisdictions impose more stringent storage regulations on it than they do the substitutes.

Goex is available many places. If you can find Schuetzen I recommend it highly. About the same price as Goex, but does not leave as much residue behind. Made with a better grade of charcoal than Goex.

Don't know anything about in-lines.

[Wendyj]

It just built like an inline. Ugliest old percussion I've ver seen lol. Was happy to find the CVA hawken really cheap. Got 2 lbs of goex powder yesterday. All they had and it was fffg. Has to ignite better than the triple 7. Wish they still made the elephant powder. Never failed for me.

[B.L.E.]

Elephant was imported from Brazil if I remember correctly. I remember it fouling more and giving lower velocities than other black powders.
If you liked Elephant, you're going to love Goex, and if you can swallow the price, $wiss is the benchmark of black powders, the muzzleloading bench rest shooters swear by it. Slovenian made Kik is also good stuff.
I just tried some Olde Eynsford made by Goex and it is just as hot as $wiss.