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Old May 13, 2017, 01:07 AM   #1
Bongo Boy
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Rock Island Double Stack in 10mm

Picked up my RIA 10mm double stack today and thought I'd share first impressions. I think the model is 52009, and that's a whole lot easier than trying to figure out what they call it. It's this one, the 5" model without tac rail:



Naturally, I'll have to throw in some background.

A couple of years ago I picked up a Tanfoglio Witness Hunter in 10mm, and have seriously enjoyed that pistol. But, I've felt for years a more 1911-like 10mm would be great, if offered in a double stack version. While there have been a couple out there for a while I guess, the Dan Wesson at over $4,000 was out of the question, and I seldom if ever saw anything else.

Well, anyway, I started doing some research again recently and, while looking at 45 Auto doublestacks, accidentally bumped into the Rock Island offerrings. Searched gunbroker, found one, bought it. Sure glad I did, so far.

Choices

It was actually on YouTube that I saw a brief review of the Pro Match high capacity model--a 6", 16-round model. I would have bought the first one I found online, but saw that it has a big o' tactical rail--something that not only do I not care for much, but that also makes no sense to me at all on a 'match' pistol. So, the 5" with conventional GI-style dust cover it was.

At the Range

Oh boy. If you're not familiar with this one, it's an all-steel, no-goofing around, fairly plain-Jane 1911. Substantial in it's mass, and in my opinion, very nicely made. A no-rattle 1911 that will need to be broken in, the slide-to-frame fit is snug, and it sounds like a 1911 that would cost 3 times as much or more.

I'll express what I like about it, and what I think could be improved--all my opinions based strictly on 'what I like'.

First off, nothing engraved, laser-etched, stamped, painted or otherwise emblazoned on the slide--nothing. No swirley script lettering, no "please read instructions", no goofy "Black Ops" this or "covert" that. No snake hide serrations front or rear--just the standard, straight and vertical GI serrations at the rear. Nice. I like that.

The finish throughout is matte black--a charcoal gray if you will, with uniform color and texture overall. A nice job with no visible machining marks, no melted edges where some guy spent too much time in the buffing wheel and accidentally knocked off crisp edges. I like that too.

As far as the 'wide body' aspect of the grip area, it's perfectly comfortable for me and my average-sized hands with what I think are somewhat short fingers. Index finger is free to press the trigger comfortably anywhere from the tip of the finger to the first joint of the finger. No issues. The flat front of the grip feels different than what I'm used to--and it does give an initial sensation of '2x4', but I think I liked it almost immediately. Without question, my concerns about it feeling big and bulky vaporized immediately after taking it out of the box.

All that said, the very well-fitted metal magwell is machined with a somewhat odd notch at that back, exposing additional checkered backstrap:



Someone out there may know why the manuf did this--but I don't know. In any case, those corners are sharp. While I didn't notice it while shooting, after getting home and holding the gun again, I could definitely tell that the meaty part of the hand that touches the magwell there took a bit of a beating. I'll either remove the magwell and contour those corners, or fill that slot with a steel insert. When I say those corners are sharp--I really mean it.

Similarly with the area of the frame on each side of the grip just under the ambi safety:



This is very minor, but it's another less-than-smooth area of the grip that my hand notices after a while. I find when shooting 10mm even from a relatively heavy gun, there's a serious grip involved, and these little slots can be felt over time. So, my second beef.

Same with the safety itself--while an ambi safety has no attraction for me to begin with, the levers are huge to me, and the left one is right in the way of where I want my thumb--and there's almost no escaping it. For my tastes, I'd prefer a GI safety lever with smooth contours that stays out of my way. This is a change I can see making immediately.

Shooting.

Yikes...fell in love immediately--what a solid feeling, comfortable gun. I have to say this might be just about the perfect platform for 10mm--I believe anyone could shoot it all day long with full up loads and be quite happy.

The trigger is, I think, supposed to be 4-5 lb if I remember the ad copy. I would have guessed 5-6 lb, just guessing. It's a crisp 1911 trigger that I have no complaints with--but I'd like to back off that weight 2 lbs I think. I have not measured it, so it might very well be I'm just used to 3 lb triggers and it feels heavier than it is. Not a big problem--I'm not fussy in these matters.

I shot everything at 15 yds, and after a single rear sight adjust, brought the holes down to just right of point of aim. I'm no precision shooter, and wanted to get some rounds through 'er...but freehand I was able to put together a 3" group with 3 fliers over about 100 rds--a 3" jagged hole. All reds were handloads, most all of which was Hornady HAP 200 gr and XTP 180 gr. I did fire some cast, but unfortuantely, all my cast bullet loads will have to go back to the seating die to get shortened up a bit--I leave them just a bit long to prevent nose-dives in the Glock, but they won't even load in the magazines without being shortened by about 0.015" or so.

I did have several failure to feeds--not certain what's happening, but the rounds seem to get jammed up coming out of the steel magazine, maybe popping out with too much enthusiasm. While I did have a couple misfeeds where the live round stovepiped, most seemed to get cocked upward too high as they entered the chamber. These were neither the first rounds nor near the last of the magazine load. Seemed a bit random.

I had one single round prevent the slide from going into battery, but when I finally extracted that thing, it was simply a case that had been Glocked and apparently I hadn't squeezed thru my de-Glock die.

Folks seem to like FO front sights, but I'm not among them. I expect another early mod will be to pull out the fiber optic completely, or modify the aft end with a drop of black paint. I can see a replacement sight in the very near future if I'm not thrilled with the backwoods mod.

The rear sight is rock solid and was easy to adjust--no wiggle, no problems.
About the only other thing: it seems the recoil spring may be a bit light, I don't know. I haven't measured it, but it just seems a little bit too easy to retract that slide. I've got a couple of heavier springs on the way--we'll see it they solve a problem I don't have.



I am, overall,l thrilled with this thing -- there are some kinks to work through, but it's had 100 rds or so thru it, so no big surprise there. I'm confident it will turn out to be my favorite 10mm by far. I find very little about it to be anything less than first-rate. It is plain and rather ordinary in appearance--and that suits my taste perfectly. I'm also very confident it will shoot far better than I can shoot it, so I have no worries there. I'd definitely buy another one...if I had any remote reason to own two of them.
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Last edited by Bongo Boy; May 13, 2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old May 13, 2017, 03:02 AM   #2
tallball
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I have the 40 caliber model of what I believe is a slightly different version of the same gun. My friend at the LGS had it in his case for a long time. It is a vey big pistol and I have huge hands. Eventually we made a deal.

The bad part is that I had frequent failures to feed. I sent it back twice, they messed around with it, and there was no improvement. I sent it back the third time and said I wanted a replacement. An actual manager replied that it was a "special model" and could not be replaced. He said that he would have "his gunsmith" look at it. The problem was actually with the slide release. it has functioned with 98% or so reliability since they sent it back to me after that. My FiL showed me a picture which led me to believe that it is actually manufactured by another company in the Philippines, hence the "special model".

The good news is that it is a good pistol now. It fits my extra-large hands very well. It has a good trigger and nice sights. Between its large grips (giving me plenty to hang onto) and its weight, 40 caliber rounds are very easy to shoot and I am back on target quickly. I own dozens of service pistols. I might be slightly more accurate with my Tanfoglio 9mm, but the RIA 40 double-stack is definitely in my top tier of accurate and easy to shoot semiautomatic pistols.


Last edited by tallball; May 13, 2017 at 03:14 AM.
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Old May 13, 2017, 11:16 AM   #3
Bongo Boy
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Glad to hear it all worked out. Yes, as far as I know they're all made in the Philippines. I got two magazines with the gun and both are stamped "40 SW". I reckon a barrel swap would be all that's needed to go that way.

I really warmed up to 40SW when I was shooting IDPA, and loaded a bajillion rounds with light Clays, Solo 1000 and Nitro 100 loads and cast bullets. It's dirt cheap to shoot, you can have a dump truck unload 5 yds of brass in your front yard for next to nothing, and getting 10-15,000 loads from an 8 lb jug of powder can't be turned down, either.

And I really like being able to share bullets and dies btw 40SW and 10mm...although now I just keep a set for each to make swapping out fast and easy.

Are those the stock sights that came with it? Yours look like the sort I might prefer.
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Old May 13, 2017, 11:37 AM   #4
tallball
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My FiL reloads for us and 40 caliber is his new favorite, so I have been shooting cheaply too. He believes that the company that made his Filipino 1911 made my pistol, but RIA has its name on it and sold it. I misremember the other company's name.

Yes, those are the original sights. They're nice and big, just as I prefer. Does yours have the odd takedown like mine? Instead of a barrel bushing, I have to stick a thick piece of wire into a little hole to keep the spring compressed so I can remove the barrel.
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Old May 13, 2017, 01:31 PM   #5
Bongo Boy
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Yes, same takedown. I think all full-length guide rods probably have a similar process--whether a pin or a sleeve, something has to be used to capture the spring.

Armscor is the company that owns Rock Island Armory--'Arms Corporation of the Philippines'. They bought Rock Island ca 1985 or so. Last year they opened a manufacturing plant in Nevada, but while my frame has 'APINTL = Pahrump NV' stamped on it, it also has 'ACP Philippines' stamped directly underneath that.

Well I modified the magwell on this thing:



and that little, barely-noticeable radius makes a BIG different in shooting comfort for me. Don't even know the magwell is there now. Five minutes well spent.

Reseated 100 rds of the cast loads this morning, shortening to 1.245-1.250" and those load real nice. Now if I could just find my Magupula I'd be discomfort-free.
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Old May 13, 2017, 03:52 PM   #6
DaleA
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A really nice range report.

Bongo Boy---have you ever held a Glock 20 short frame? I ask because I have held the Glock and it really does feel like holding a 2x4. I've never held an RIA double stack 10mm. If you have held them both could you compare the grip?

I'd say your report improved my opinion of RIA quite a bit. I appreciated your comment about the rear sight being solid. One of the pictures made it seem like it might not be.

Good luck!

P.S. If you buy some additional magazines I'd be interested in what you get and if they work correctly.
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Old May 13, 2017, 06:46 PM   #7
bamaranger
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10mm

Bongo, thanks for the report on the RIA 10mm. You mention you are a handloader, and that will serve you well with that cartridge. Keep us posted with how your RIA is doing, if you resolve the feed issue, etc.
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Old May 13, 2017, 11:35 PM   #8
Bongo Boy
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I think that is the G20 that I own...the SF model. I very rarely shoot it and don't really care to all that much, but to me, there's no comparison--even though the RIA has a few sharp spots here and there and could stand some better ergonomics, I find it far more comfortable that the G20.

The improvement in feel after the little mod to the magwell was significant, and I'm confident replacing the ambi safety with a standard GI one will make the gun feel a lot better. I should take a photo from above, looking down onto the saftey levers, I think that would tell the whole story. They look great--but this is a case where less would be more, and smoother curves would be less artsy but more comfy.

While it's a fairly massive gun, I must say, it feels like you can really get a hold of it and are fully in control. I always feel I have to death-grip the G20. Most of the time, I just use it to complete the MecTech carbine. I actually prefer to shoot my Glock 29 over the 20...and the 29 is what I generally carry. I don't find the RIA doublestack to be the ungainly, clumsy 'block' that I sort of get with the big Glock.

My thought is that the Rock Island products are priced such that many folks may not think too much of them, plus they're made (or were) in the Philippines, which also may make folks question quality. Then, on top of that, they aren't 'snazzy' in finish. I had my doubts as well--mostly due to what I perceived to be a 2nd tier image and the lower-than-most price.

Another 1000 rds or so...to be fair...but at this point I am convinced the only thing 2nd tier about the gun is the price. It feels, fits and sounds like a hand-fitted gun to me. Again, 100 rds is just a tad early to be all ecstatic...but first impressions were very positive. We'll see.
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Old May 18, 2017, 10:24 PM   #9
Creek Henry
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44

While I am still looking at a 44mag Bisley for hog hunting, this would work pretty dang good also imo
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Old May 18, 2017, 10:43 PM   #10
Model12Win
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Looks like an excellent "woodsman's pistol" or "bearsman's gun" as it were.
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