Varget vs. H335

Dave R · June 1, 2004, 03:55 PM

I have a .308 load that I am very happy with, using H335 powder.

I got a new kind of bullet, and wanted to put together a load for it. I got a half can of Varget from a friend, and I'm tying to convince myself that it would be worthwhile working up a load with Varget.

I am not doing a very good job of convincing myself I need to do this.

The differences between the two powders, as for as I can see, are:

-Varget is supposed to be more resistant to heat/cold affecting velocity. Here in Idaho, that might mean something.

-Varget is $1 more per pound.

So what has been your experience in switching from one powder to another? Is there really that much diffrerence? Or should I stick with a load I like?

Any Varget Groupies out there want to convince me its a better powder than H335?

lochaber · June 2, 2004, 02:08 PM

Well, I can not tell you if it is better then H335 as I haven't used H335, but I do like Varget. It meters like a dream and it gets me nice groups from my Savage 308.

All I can tell you is that I like Varget. Only one way to find out if you and your rifles do as well.

Loch

shu · June 10, 2004, 06:11 AM

not to hijack the thread, but.....
i have seen many references to varget as metering well, and this is quite contrary to my experience. the little rat turds are always getting crunched and cut in my rcbs powder measure, making it hard to crank the handle. intuitively, the jack-straw shape would produce greater variance of mass in a run of equal volume measures than would (e.g.) a small spherical shape.
i am ok with the way varget shoots, just think the shape is hard to work with.

colt100 · October 21, 2004, 10:12 AM

I have used the wcc844 for my M1a and have found that I like varget better then the wcc844. I get better groups. Oh, and if you think that varget meters badly, try 4064. I think that Varget meters well but not as well as ball powders. Varget is what I use for my deer hunting loads.

P-990 · October 21, 2004, 11:11 AM

I have used plenty of Varget in .223. I have no metering problems with it. Believe it or not, I think the best way to meter Varget is with the Lee Perfect meter (or whatever they call it; it's the one I use).

It IS temperature insensitive, which is better than I can say for my experiences with ball powder (W748 the prime example, though W296 was a little tempermental in my .44s).

Try it, see what happens. Heck, you've only got the half-pound, so what are you out if you don't like it?

Dave R · October 23, 2004, 10:39 PM

Well, I worked up the load and I'm still sorta indifferent.

Accuracy between the two worked up loads is identical, or so close I can't tell the difference.

Economy favors H335 a little, both because the powder is a buck a pound less and because the Varget load uses a grain more powder. 46gr. H335 vs. 47gr. of Varget.

So maybe I'll use up the Varget for its resistance to temperature changes, and then make a decision whether to buy more then.

sundog · October 25, 2004, 12:04 PM

Hodgdon recommends a Fed 215M primer with Varget in the .308 yet standard LR in other loadings with Varget. Any idea why? sundog

Edited: Never mind, I answered my own querstion by doing a little CLOSER reading. Its a 210M primer and that makes perfect sense.

woofe · October 28, 2004, 01:58 PM

I have a Dillion 650 setup. Love it. I do have problems with poor metering when loading .223 with Varget. I also have issues with random small amounts of spillage. I assume this to be a factor of using compressed loads on the .223. I have no such issues when using Varget for larger cases (go figure).

Note: On my .308 loads (and they are max) I have had to modify the gas system on my M1A's to flow less gas. I bent a couple of oprods before figuring out that the pressure at the gas port is too high with varget.

LSUBOY · November 27, 2004, 01:50 AM

If it ain't broke don't fix it? Pick the hottest day in the summer and work-up your 335 load, then don't worry about the cold times; However, if you just must try a different powder in your 308, then try RL15.

I use it in my 22-250, 308 and 220 Swift and shoot sub 1/2 inch groups with it in each gun. All done with my RCBS Uniflo with dial inserts. My 22-20 loves a 55 grain bullet with 33.7 for 3550. The swift likes 37.5 with a 50 grain bullet for 3800 FPS and the 308 loves 40.5 grains of it with a 190 SBTB for 2400 FPS.

Now on tha subject of metering, I've shot one hole groups with powder charges that were mixed up 33.4 / 33.5 /33.6 or 7 grains of RL15. Put another way: "If you have a load that shoots 3550 FPS and are using 34 grains of powder, then each 1/10 grain of powder = about 10 FPS". That means that a swing of the powder measurer from 34 grains to 37 grains will only equal 30 FPS. If I want a load that uses 35 grains of powder, I set my measurer to throw 34 grains, then weigh about 10 to 20 charges and keep adjusting until I get it to throw 34 grains most of the time with some 35 and 33 grains mixed in. With ball powder I set it to throw just what I want.

I've shot too many groups over my P35 to know that that much deviation ain't bad at all. Heck, I even get that much deviation when I weigh each charge.

Watcha think?

PDshooter · November 28, 2004, 11:56 PM

I think "Varget " sucks !!!!!!!!!! in my .223 My Win,70 shoots it's best with H335 or Win748. All groups at the bench at 100yds 5 shot under a inch ! For my old eye's that way good enough !

LSUBOY · December 1, 2004, 07:27 PM

Try some AA2015 in your 223 with a 50 grain bullets. It should shoot real nice somewhere around 23 to 24 grains. Make you leave 335 and 748 like tha plague.

tcshooter52 · December 4, 2004, 10:06 PM

Love it, I'm shooting .75 groups with a Remington 700 ADL 30-06 165gr @ 100 yds, .35 with a Savage 112 heavy barrel .243 65gr hornady V-Max. If you are worried about a price difference of a dollar per pound then buy eight pounds and be done with it. I haven't had any problems with metering or anything else. As for tempeature extrems, this powder works really well here in the northwest (Tacoma, Wa.) Injoy.

June 1, 2004, 03:55 PM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Varget vs. H335 I have a .308 load that I am very happy with, using H335 powder. I got a new kind of bullet, and wanted to put together a load for it. I got a half can of Varget from a friend, and I'm tying to convince myself that it would be worthwhile working up a load with Varget. I am not doing a very good job of convincing myself I need to do this. The differences between the two powders, as for as I can see, are: -Varget is supposed to be more resistant to heat/cold affecting velocity. Here in Idaho, that might mean something. -Varget is $1 more per pound. So what has been your experience in switching from one powder to another? Is there really that much diffrerence? Or should I stick with a load I like? Any Varget Groupies out there want to convince me its a better powder than H335? __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

June 2, 2004, 02:08 PM	#2
lochaber Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2000 Location: NJ Posts: 152	Well, I can not tell you if it is better then H335 as I haven't used H335, but I do like Varget. It meters like a dream and it gets me nice groups from my Savage 308. All I can tell you is that I like Varget. Only one way to find out if you and your rifles do as well. Loch __________________ --- YOU save the whales. Leave ME alone.

June 10, 2004, 06:11 AM	#3
shu Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2000 Location: lower rio grande valley, texas Posts: 216	not to hijack the thread, but..... i have seen many references to varget as metering well, and this is quite contrary to my experience. the little rat turds are always getting crunched and cut in my rcbs powder measure, making it hard to crank the handle. intuitively, the jack-straw shape would produce greater variance of mass in a run of equal volume measures than would (e.g.) a small spherical shape. i am ok with the way varget shoots, just think the shape is hard to work with. __________________ If you would have Liberty you must accept that individual security is not the responsiblity of government. You must. - XAVIER ONASIS

October 21, 2004, 11:11 AM	#5
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	I have used plenty of Varget in .223. I have no metering problems with it. Believe it or not, I think the best way to meter Varget is with the Lee Perfect meter (or whatever they call it; it's the one I use). It IS temperature insensitive, which is better than I can say for my experiences with ball powder (W748 the prime example, though W296 was a little tempermental in my .44s). Try it, see what happens. Heck, you've only got the half-pound, so what are you out if you don't like it? __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

October 23, 2004, 10:39 PM	#6
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Well, I worked up the load and I'm still sorta indifferent. Accuracy between the two worked up loads is identical, or so close I can't tell the difference. Economy favors H335 a little, both because the powder is a buck a pound less and because the Varget load uses a grain more powder. 46gr. H335 vs. 47gr. of Varget. So maybe I'll use up the Varget for its resistance to temperature changes, and then make a decision whether to buy more then. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

October 21, 2004, 10:12 AM	#4
colt100 Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: wisconsin Posts: 2	I have used the wcc844 for my M1a and have found that I like varget better then the wcc844. I get better groups. Oh, and if you think that varget meters badly, try 4064. I think that Varget meters well but not as well as ball powders. Varget is what I use for my deer hunting loads.

October 25, 2004, 12:04 PM	#7
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	Hodgdon recommends a Fed 215M primer with Varget in the .308 yet standard LR in other loadings with Varget. Any idea why? sundog Edited: Never mind, I answered my own querstion by doing a little CLOSER reading. Its a 210M primer and that makes perfect sense. __________________ safety first Last edited by sundog; October 26, 2004 at 07:49 AM.

October 28, 2004, 01:58 PM	#8
woofe Junior Member Join Date: August 30, 2004 Posts: 3	Re: Varget I have a Dillion 650 setup. Love it. I do have problems with poor metering when loading .223 with Varget. I also have issues with random small amounts of spillage. I assume this to be a factor of using compressed loads on the .223. I have no such issues when using Varget for larger cases (go figure). Note: On my .308 loads (and they are max) I have had to modify the gas system on my M1A's to flow less gas. I bent a couple of oprods before figuring out that the pressure at the gas port is too high with varget.

November 27, 2004, 01:50 AM	#9
LSUBOY Member Join Date: November 27, 2004 Posts: 36	If it ain't broke don't fix it? Pick the hottest day in the summer and work-up your 335 load, then don't worry about the cold times; However, if you just must try a different powder in your 308, then try RL15. I use it in my 22-250, 308 and 220 Swift and shoot sub 1/2 inch groups with it in each gun. All done with my RCBS Uniflo with dial inserts. My 22-20 loves a 55 grain bullet with 33.7 for 3550. The swift likes 37.5 with a 50 grain bullet for 3800 FPS and the 308 loves 40.5 grains of it with a 190 SBTB for 2400 FPS. Now on tha subject of metering, I've shot one hole groups with powder charges that were mixed up 33.4 / 33.5 /33.6 or 7 grains of RL15. Put another way: "If you have a load that shoots 3550 FPS and are using 34 grains of powder, then each 1/10 grain of powder = about 10 FPS". That means that a swing of the powder measurer from 34 grains to 37 grains will only equal 30 FPS. If I want a load that uses 35 grains of powder, I set my measurer to throw 34 grains, then weigh about 10 to 20 charges and keep adjusting until I get it to throw 34 grains most of the time with some 35 and 33 grains mixed in. With ball powder I set it to throw just what I want. I've shot too many groups over my P35 to know that that much deviation ain't bad at all. Heck, I even get that much deviation when I weigh each charge. Watcha think?

November 28, 2004, 11:56 PM	#10
PDshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 607	I think "Varget " sucks !!!!!!!!!! in my .223 My Win,70 shoots it's best with H335 or Win748. All groups at the bench at 100yds 5 shot under a inch ! For my old eye's that way good enough !

December 1, 2004, 07:27 PM	#11
LSUBOY Member Join Date: November 27, 2004 Posts: 36	Try some AA2015 in your 223 with a 50 grain bullets. It should shoot real nice somewhere around 23 to 24 grains. Make you leave 335 and 748 like tha plague.

December 4, 2004, 10:06 PM	#12
tcshooter52 Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 11	Varget Love it, I'm shooting .75 groups with a Remington 700 ADL 30-06 165gr @ 100 yds, .35 with a Savage 112 heavy barrel .243 65gr hornady V-Max. If you are worried about a price difference of a dollar per pound then buy eight pounds and be done with it. I haven't had any problems with metering or anything else. As for tempeature extrems, this powder works really well here in the northwest (Tacoma, Wa.) Injoy.