Want a SA, need advice

[BoogieMan]

I have DA revolvers and more pistols than I can count. I have very limited experience with SA revolvers and really want to get one. At some point I may try my hand at CAS so I dont want anything that will disqualify my from that. Also possible I may use to hunt at some point. So, I dont want anything that will not handle "full power" loads. I would like to keep it under $700ish.
What cartridge? 45lc or 357/38 or other?
Barrel length? thinking 5.5"
Found some really good prices on J P Sauer & Sohn. But, they only seem to be 22lr or 44m.
Thinking a Ruger Vaquero or Uberti Cattleman or Beretta Stampede.

[rodfac]

I don't participate in the Cowboy games, but do spend considerable time with a adj. sight, Ruger SA BH of one caliber or another. As a reloader and load tinkerer, I find adj. sights almost mandatory. Just can't abide holding off, KY windage, to correct POI's that differ from my POA. But if your CAS aspirations are primary, non-adj. sights may work out as the CAS crowd shoots at extremely short distance, and at speed that makes true accuracy impossible. But for longer distance, giving you a wider variety of shooting venues, adj. sights are the way to go.

For fixed sight guns, correcting a sight problem can be a headache. A case in point: I once broke the front sight off a NV in .32 H&R by tapping it with a brass drift. Re-soldering it was a royal PITA. But there are other alternatives: I've widened the rear notch on a NV .45LC to correct at 2" left deviation and it worked out very well indeed, but that's about the limit. The new rear sight wallow shows better now, (more light around the front sight when centered), a definite benefit as my eyes are not what they were 20+ years ago. Another technique to center your groups is to turn the bbl. in the frame, thus off-setting the front sight which moves the POI. This is a job for a gunsmith, though, and one with experience, IMHO.

For your purposes, adj. sights may not work out if you intend to take up CAS. Or maybe they offer adj. sight matches. The prohibition seems a bit much to me, though...as they do allow other modifications.

As to bbl. length, many find the 5.5" ones very good for a variety of uses. In my daily carry, I find the 4-5/8" Rugers more convenient, and especially so when mounted on any modern conveyance: any longer and the gun sticks me in short ribs when holstered at 3 o'clock OWB.

Too, I've found no real world discernible difference in accuracy when compared to the 5.5" lengths. At close in distances: 5-15 yards, there's no difference for me. And when I shoot at longer reaches, at realistic targets, say the size of a tennis ball or more, the improved accuracy offers no benefit when compared to the inconvenience of the longer tube.

HTH's & Best regards, Rod

[Hawg]

Adjustable sights in CAS will limit the categories you can shoot in. Two revolvers are required. You will also need a lever action rifle in a pistol caliber and a SXS shotgun or a Winchester 1887 or 1893 or clone.

[USSR]

The Italians (Uberti and Pietta) are putting out some nice SA's. I recently picked up a Pietta that I really like. I did have to file down the front sight a bit to get it to shoot to POA, but that was no problem.

Don

[Bob Wright]

My opinion is that you are talking about two separate revolvers. The hunting revolver should be or longer barrel length, ideally 7 1/2", have good adjustable sights, and chamber the .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum cartridge. Best example: Ruger Super Blackhawk.

The Cowboy Action revolver typically is the closest thing to a Colt Single Action Army, have a barrel of 4 3/4" (4 5/8" for Rugers) best to have fixed sights for smooth frame top. And while the .45 Colt chambering is historically accurate, .38 Special (or .357 Magnum firing .38 Special) is increasingly popular. The .38 because of its milder recoil which allows faster follow up shorts. And there are timed events.

And, whatever you do, NEVER try to fan a Blackhawk~

Bob Wright

[Aguila Blanca]

I agree with Bob Wright. Cowboy action shooting is an activity very different from hunting. I would want adjustable sights and a 7-1/2-inch barrel on a revolver for hunting. For cowboy action you don't want adjustable sights (not allowed in most classes), and a 5-1/2-inch or 4-4/8-inch barrel.

Read this: https://www.gunblast.com/Taylor-SmokeWagon.htm

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...l-roy-edition/

The Smoke Wagon and the Evil Roy come already slicked up for cowboy action shooting. A friend of mine bought a pair of Smoke Wagons, went to some CAS events at his local club, and started winning.

Here's a link to the SASS rule book. There's a section in there about the firearms, and also the classes.

https://sassnet.com/Downloads/Shoote...2%20MASTER.pdf

I recently exchanged e-mails with a gentlemen who is the SASS head honcho for one of the two SASS regions in my state. He commented that to get into CAS, between the guns and the period-correct clothing required, you're looking at plus or minus $10,000. Yes -- that's TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.

[Jim Watson]

I think you could get in for half that, but it is still not cheap.
I saw people with more money in wardrobe than I had in six-guns.

[Drm50]

I don’t think there is any comparison between Rugers and Imports. I know nothing about Cowboy game, I use to have every Ruger SA in each barrel length. That was in 3 screw days.
Now you couldn’t haul one of each in a pickup. I’ve still got my original Ruger SBH and is my main deer handgun. Can’t go wrong with Ruger.

[rclark]

I think a adjustable sighted Ruger SA would be a good place to start. 5 1/2" is a good length . Fixed sighted revolvers take more work to get them to shoot straight and you wouldn't want to get frustrated just out of the gate so to speak! As for caliber, well I am .45 Colt guy, but I reload. If you don't reload the .357/.38 Special would be better I think. More choices, less cost for ammo. Don't worry, once you have one single action, it won't be you last! Then get your New Vaquero or a Uberti and deal with any sighting issues. I recently picked up a .45 Colt Cimmaron Model P 5 1/2" and it actually shoots pretty darn close to POA. All my other Fixed Sighted revolvers, I've had to file the front sight and/or have the barrel turned. Trigger pull is reasonable on this .45 and seems well made for an import. Put 100 rounds through it so far. Actually quite impressed with it.

[stinkeypete]

1. If you want to experience "full power" then you want a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 Magnum or .45 Colt. You want adjustable sights since you are interested in light and heavy loads. It's not historically accurate, but neither is hand cannon power.

.45 Colt is cool because it's got a longer history and used to mean "Hey, I can reload ammo!" but it's easier to find ammunition now. Reloaders get to brag on the "Ruger Only" loads which take the .45 Colt right up and equal to .44 Magnum loads. Ballistically they are identical in my mind as a thousandth of an inch or two in diameter is imperceptible to the target, bullet weights are the same and velocities can be the same too.

.44 Magnum is cool because it has it's own history and let's face it, .44-40 is the cool cowboy load anyhow. Factory ammo and matching rifle are probably much easier to find, and resale value may be higher as it appeals to a broader market.

.357 Magnum- even loaded to the max is not going to give you the "As close to hand cannon as I want to get" feeling the big bores will. It can take a deer but .44 or .45 is a much more conservative game-getter if, like me, you feel that putting your animal down as humanely as possible is a priority over ego. Yeah, I could use a .357 but honestly, I make mistakes and .44 is a safer bet.
32-20 and .32 are frankly a hoot because they almost feel like reloadable .22's. The opposite of hand cannons.

Stainless- I like the matte stainless finish- not the silvery shiny stainless- because when you get a scratch you just buff it out with a green Scotchbrite pad. You can keep your pistol looking factory new. I like blued steel too, but it took a while for me to appreciate the beauty of "honest" wear on the finish. I have been told that the steel that is blued is easier to machine and so may result in better mechanicals, although the stainless blackhawks I had were all slick as can be. It's a very small but perceptible improvement.

Used vs New ... I would go with used (and I can inspect it) over new and unseen.
I would not put a premium on getting a "3-screw" model as I appreciate the transfer bar safety and would weight that over the better trigger feel of the 3-screw model (which should only be loaded with 5, unless it has the factory update in which case it doesn't matter anyhow other than to a collector)

Ruger will take care of your pistol no matter who the original owner was.

Used... I get to see and inspect the pistol. The fit and finish on the older ones just seems on average a little bit better to me. Perhaps it's that being older they have had time for the triggers to break in... I even don't mind the finish wear on older guns anymore. It used to bother me.

Triggers- Out of the box, a Blackhawk single action trigger is shockingly good compared to modern plastic semi-automatics. But we get spoiled.

A good cleaning and lubrication with a modern synthetic will improve things. A "Poor Man's Trigger Job" takes 5 seconds and improves things more. (Basically, apply light pressure to the cocked trigger and pull the trigger slow and smooth- it is quicker than hundreds of dry firings. DON'T do this ham-handedly! New lighter trigger and main springs from Wolf are EASY to install, once you learn a few very simple tricks you can learn on youtube and they make a world of difference. All of this costs about $25 and is worth it. Keep your old springs because if you ever need Ruger's world class service, they are going to send your gun back with factory springs and you'll have to buy new Wolf springs again.

You can have a specialist gunsmith do a trigger job- one of my blackhawks had the trigger done by Bowen and... well... yes... it's been raised from "Outstanding" to "yep, this is about as good as humanly possible for a Blackhawk."

Grips- I personally like the Bisley grips. I like the "Plow handle" grips too. I like the steel grip frames as they are heavy and help soak up recoil and they fit good, I like the aluminum grip frames even though they are painted and sometimes fit not-so-good because they are significantly lighter and after a day out hunting I really can feel the difference on my hip. I like wood grip panels in all cases and wear a shooting glove for high power loads. The rubber Pachmayer grips are loved by some but they chew up my hand.

The Dragoon grip frame... the old one that has the back end squared off... is frankly a knuckle buster. If you are disciplined and never let your hand ride up high, it will never bite you. If you forget, you'll get a beating on your middle finger. Since we all forget, solutions include rubber or wood grips that fill in the gap or buying a new grip frame that has a rounded trigger guard. I would not turn down a used blackhawk at a very good price simply because of the trigger guard- that's easily remedied.

Barrel Length- I like 5 1/2 inches as "Light, handy, long enough sight radius and it balances well in my hand." Bob (see above) likes the longer barrel which has a muzzle heavy balance which I admit really soaks up recoil in heavy load. The longer sight radius is a bonus, too. For the lighter Single Six frame, I like the longer barrel myself.

Cowboy Action- while the advice above is correct for real competitors, the club level stuff I did was very forgiving for fellas just starting out. If your pistols did not match or match your rifle, hey, you're a noobie and are just in it for fun and no problem- maybe get proper gear next season!?

All opinions above are mine. Maybe not even mine, and some are meant to be amusing- so no one take offense that I say stuff like "Don't waste your time on conversion cylinders" or "Shopkeeper grips on a .44 is like a muscle car with a space saving spare tire on it."

[Driftwood Johnson]

I recently exchanged e-mails with a gentlemen who is the SASS head honcho for one of the two SASS regions in my state. He commented that to get into CAS, between the guns and the period-correct clothing required, you're looking at plus or minus $10,000. Yes -- that's TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.

WHAT???

That is baloney. I don't care who told you that, he is just plain wrong.

Sorry, I will comment on revolvers in another post, but that figure is completely ridiculous.

I have been shooting CAS for close to 20 years, and there is absolutely no requirement to wear "Period-Correct*" clothing, whatever the heck that is.

You can wear an old pair of jeans and a work shirt. Completely legal. You don't have to wear cowboy boots, there are all kinds of shoes that are acceptable. You don't even have to wear a cowboy hat, but one is suggested to keep hot brass ejected from your rifle from falling down inside your shirt. You can outfit yourself completely at any used clothing store for just a few bucks. The Costume Categories are a bit stricter about what to wear, but again, you don't have to break the bank, a lot of that stuff can also be found in the back of your closet or a used clothing store.


Let's look at some gun prices.

Suggested Retail Price, you may find some better deals.

Ruger New Vaquero (2 required) $829.00 each.

Or if you prefer there are oodles of Italian made Single Action Army Replicas.

Uberti Cattlemen start at $699 each. Yes, you will need 2.

The Uberti replica of the Winchester Model 1873, the most popular rifle in CAS, starts at $1379.00.

If you would prefer a replica of the Winchester Model 1892, the rifle most often seen in Westerns on TV and in the Movies, EMF has them starting at $625.00

Shotgun prices are all over the place. You can get a Stoeger 12 gauge double trigger coach gun for $449. Prices for many different shotguns go up from there.

So what are we talking about for guns?

Pair of Uberti Cattlemen: $1338.00
EMF 1892: $625.00
Stoeger Coach Gun: $449

Total for guns: $2412.00

Has anyone priced a decent Trap shotgun recently?

You can go up from there if you want to. By the way, anybody who tells you that you have to buy the latest, slickest, fancy race ready guns if full of you know what. Unless you are exteremely competitive and want to go home with the free Cadillac that is given away to the fastest shooter at every math.

(Just kidding, that is an old CAS joke)


By the way, brand names to stay away from: Chiappa

*I really hate the term Period Correct. It smacks too much of Politically Correct in my ears. I prefer the term Historically Accurate, and there is still no requirement for such in SASS.

OK, rant over, I will comment on revolvers shortly.

P.S. Yup, you will need holsters for your pistols. (Yes, we always call them pistols in CAS, not revolvers)

You can get a pair of Triple K holsters for about $50 each, a gunbelt from the used clothing store.

[BoogieMan]

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge. 2 things that really stick out to me. 2x SAA needed for CAS and adjustable sights not allowed in CAS. Im in NJ and need a permit for every handgun.
My interest in CAS is marginal, biggest concern here is to fill a void in my collection. Just looking for a nice shooting SA for fun. Hunting and CAS are me looking for a means to justify it. I have a 460xvr and 686 not to mention plenty of long guns, xbow , etc.. I think I might lean toward a Blackhawk to scratch my SA itch. Really depends a lot on what my LGS has available as well.

[44caliberkid]

Get a Ruger old model Vaquero in 44 Magnum and never look back. You have a huge range of loads it will take, from mild to wrist twisting. Take your pick of a 100 different styles of aftermarket grips, to make it your own. Cowboy legal and you could hunt with it. It isn't hard to find many still NIB.

[Armybrat]

Nothing wrong with a Ruger Super Blackhawk...

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by BoogieMan

My interest in CAS is marginal, biggest concern here is to fill a void in my collection. Just looking for a nice shooting SA for fun. Hunting and CAS are me looking for a means to justify it. I have a 460xvr and 686 not to mention plenty of long guns, xbow , etc.. I think I might lean toward a Blackhawk to scratch my SA itch. Really depends a lot on what my LGS has available as well.

Once you discount CAS as a primary criterion, I would support your getting a Ruger Blackhawk (or Super Blackhawk). If you might use it for hunting, you'll appreciate the adjustable sights. The Italian Colt clones (Uberti and Pietta) are excellent pistols (revolvers, sorry), but they won't take heavy loads, and they don't have adjustable sights.

[USSR]

The Italian Colt clones (Uberti and Pietta) are excellent pistols (revolvers, sorry), but they won't take heavy loads, and they don't have adjustable sights.

Yeah, but being available brand new for $450 (that's what I paid) and with that classic Colt SA look, they are just flat out nice.

Don

[Driftwood Johnson]

2x SAA needed for CAS and adjustable sights not allowed in CAS.

Howdy Again

Not quite correct. Yes, 2 single action revolvers are required.

But your understanding about adjustable sighted revolvers is incorrect.

Revolvers with adjustable sights are allowed, they simply put you in a different category from the guys with fixed sight revolvers.

You all shoot on the same posse, you just get grouped into a different category when the scores are tallied.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Lets talk about fixed sights first:

"Full Power Loads" are in the eyes of the beholder.

All the Italian replicas are proofed to standards slightly higher than American SAAMI standards. They are proofed for standard ammunition that you find on the shelves of most stores. No, they are not capable of digesting +P loads, but they are not restricted to 'Cowboy Ammunition' which is generally loaded to a slightly lower level.

The Ruger New Vaquero is not as big and beefy as the older 'original model' Vaquero. Like most Ruger revolvers, the older 'original model' Vaquero could safely digest loads in most of the loading manuals referred to as Ruger Only loads. That model is no longer made. The currently available New Vaquero is slightly smaller than the 'original model'. Ruger suggests limiting it to SAMMI spec ammo. Just like the Italian replicas. There are lots of arguments about how much pressure the New Vaquero can actually handle, but I'm not going there. If you buy a New Vaquero, best to stick with the off the shelf stuff.

Adjustable Sights:

The Ruger Blackhawk series has been built on a larger frame than the old Colt Single Action Army for many years. Because the frame is larger, the cylinder is larger with more metal between the chambers. These revolvers are very strong and are capable of digesting Ruger Only loads with no problem, if you can take the recoil. There are a few Blackhawks being made on a smaller frame now, and they should not be fed Ruger Only loads. But most Blackhawks are built on the larger frame (the same size frame the old 'original model' Vaquero was built on) and can digest Ruger Only loads and everything else less powerful.

Traditionally, single action revolvers had what is often known as a 'four click' mechanism. When you cocked the hammer, there were four distinct clicks the mechanism made. 1. 'safety cock', 2. half cock, which freed the cylinder to rotate for loading, 3. the bolt popping up against the cylinder, and 4. Full cock with the cylinder locking up in battery ready to fire. These revolvers WERE NOT safe to carry fully loaded with a live round under the hammer. Even if the hammer were pulled back to the 'safety cock' position, if the hammer spur was struck a strong blow, the internal mechanism could break and the firing pin could be driven into a live cartridge under the hammer, firing the round. Dropping the gun on its hammer was often enough for the revolver to discharge. So the old style revolvers, which include real Colts as well as most of the Italian replicas were only safe to carry loaded with five rounds in the cylinder, with an empty chamber under the hammer.

Way back in the 1970s Ruger completely redesigned their line of revolvers, incorporating a Transfer Bar into the design. This meant they were completely safe to carry fully loaded with a live round under the hammer. If the hammer was struck, it could not physically reach the frame mounted firing pin to fire a cartridge.

ALL Ruger revolvers made since the 1970s have a transfer bar inside, both fixed sight versions and adjustable sight versions. So they are ALL safe to carry fully loaded. These are usually referred to as New Model Rugers.

About two years ago Uberti redesigned their line of single action revolvers to include a retractable firing pin in the hammer. No more four clicks, only three. The firing pin is retracted in the hammer just enough so that it cannot reach the primer of a live round under the hammer. Only when the trigger is pulled does the firing pin extend far enough so it can fire a cartridge. This style of single action revolver is safe to carry fully loaded, if the hammer is struck while the hammer is down, nothing will happen except maybe banging up the finish of the revolver.


As I said, this is a very new development, and it only applies to single action revolvers made by Uberti. The other brands of Italian single action revolvers mostly still need to be loaded with only 5 rounds with an empty chamber under the hammer.

Clicks: Some guys make a big deal about the number of clicks. They think that four clicks is the only proper amount of clicks a single action revolver should have. The new Ubertis only make three clicks, a Ruger only makes two, one when the bolt pops up and one when the hammer goes to full cock. I have many different types of single action revolvers, real Colts, Ubertis, and Rugers as well as a few other brands no longer made. I can tell you that the only time I can actually hear the clicks is when I am pretending to shoot bad guys at night watching TV. You never hear that real slow ratcheting of four clicks in real life that you do in the movies.

Anyway

Fixed sights: Italian replicas or Ruger New Vaqueros.

Adjustable sights: Ruger New Model Blackhawk.

Maximum SAAMI spec loads, all of the above.

Ruger Only loads: Ruger Blackhawk.

That's pretty much it off the top of my head.

P.S., not a hunter so I can't help you with that. I like most barrel lengths, 4 3/4" (Colts) 4 5/8" (Rugers), and 7 1/2", (Colts, Clones, and Rugers.)

I don't care for the 5 1/2" length, just don't like its appearance. Purely a personal opinion, nothing more.



A few photos:

My favorite pair of single action revolvers, two 2nd Gen Colts. The one at the top has a 7 1/2" barrel, the one at the bottom has a 4 3/4" barrel. Both chambered for 45 Colt, this is the pair I shoot most often in CAS, and I only shoot them with cartridges loaded with Black Powder.






New Model Ruger Single Action revolvers. All are equipped with transfer bars and all can be safely loaded with six rounds. Left to right, 45 Colt/45 ACP Blackhawk that I bought many, many years ago. It came with an auxiliary cylinder for 45 ACP. Next is a blued 'original model' Vaquero chambered for 45 Colt (no longer available). Next is a pair of Stainless 'original model' Vaqueros, chambered for 45 Colt. (also no longer available). Finally on the far right a pair of New Vaqueros. This pair happens to be chambered for 357 Magnum.






These are all Three Screw Rugers. Notice they each have three screw heads showing on the right side of the frame, as opposed to two pins with the New Models above. These have not been made since the 1970s, before Ruger redesigned his single action line to include a transfer bar. Like a Colt, these are only safe to carry loaded with five rounds with an empty chamber under the hammer. Left to right, a 44 Magnum Flat Top, a 357 Magnum, a 357 Magnum Flat Top, and three 22 Rimfire Single Sixes.

[44 AMP]

I would not put a premium on getting a "3-screw" model as I appreciate the transfer bar safety and would weight that over the better trigger feel of the 3-screw model

I've never found the old model Rugers (3 screw) to have triggers any better than the new models. Individual guns vary a bit, of course, but as a group, the ones I've and or used have both had "out of the box" triggers that were ok to good.

The guns CONVERTED by Ruger from the old model lockwork to the transfer bar type have a reputation for having trigger pulls inferior to both the original old model and the new model. Can't say its true, and I won't say its not, but, there's been talk.....

Get a Ruger old model Vaquero in 44 Magnum and never look back.

There is no such thing as an old model Vaquero.

The terms describing Ruger SA's are somewhat confusing but once understood they are very precise.

"Old Model" refers to the original lockwork (essentially the same manual of arms as the Colt SAA) in use from the beginning (1956?) until 1973. These are the guns that are also called "3 screw", due to the 3 screw heads on the frame.

"New Model" (and it says new model on the guns) are the new lockwork (transfer bar, etc.) introduced in 1973, which have pins instead of screws visible on the frame.

ALL Vaqueros are "new model" lockwork, and are on the large Blackhawk frame. The only significant difference between the Vaquero and the (new model) Blackhawk are the sights, the Vaquero has a round top frame with the fixed rear sight like the Colt SAA. The Blackhawk has an adjustable rear sight.

Ruger ended production of the Vaquero some years ago, and replaced them with the "New Vaquero" (the actual name "New Vaquero" is on the gun), which is built on its own frame, smaller than the Blackhawk/Vaquero frame.

The New Vaquero is the almost exactly the size and shape of the Colt SAA. It has the "new model Blackhawk" transfer bar system.

To the OP, the first thing you need to decide is, do you want an SA revolver to play the cowboy action game, or do you want one best optimized for real world use?

Cowboy Action shooting is a game. Like many other games that were once fun, it has been taken over by "gamers" who write rules to "enhance" the game the way they see it, not necessarily the way we would.

cowboy action shooting has some specific rules, about the guns and ammo allowed, and some things aren't allowed (or only allowed in their own separate class" because they aren't "period correct" yet at the same time other things that aren't really period correct are not only allowed, but encouraged.

The only allowed pistol ammo is lead bullets (no jacketed or plated) and velocities must be between 400fps and 1,000 fps.

the features that enhance hunting and sporting use such as adjustable sights and magnum power cartridges are not allowed in cowboy games.

Ruger Blackhawks are the best SA's around for the money, if you want a working gun where hunting might be a consideration.

Ruger NEW MODEL Vaquero is a Colt SAA size gun well suited to the cowboy games.

[Jim Watson]

What kind of "real world use" you talking about there, podnuh?
I'd wager there are more in the CAS "game" than there are handgun hunters and the number of single actions in defensive carry is tiny. What other "sporting use" do you envision? I used to shoot IHMSA where there were a few single actions but that is very faded, nonexistent here.

The New Vaquero is commonly dismissed as no better than a wrought iron Peacemaker, but it is a bigger, heavier gun. The .45 is not thought suitable for 30000 psi "Ruger Only" overloads but it will handle 20000 psi loads that are actually more powerful than real black.
But again, why?

[Driftwood Johnson]

There is no such thing as an old model Vaquero.

Which is exactly why I always refer to the older, larger, stronger version of the Vaquero as "original model" Vaquero. If you had read my post you might have noticed that. Ruger produced the "original model" Vaquero from 1993 until 2005. In 2005 they stopped producing the "original model" Vaquero and replaced it with the New Vaquero. Rather than using a smart way to differentiate the New Vaquero from the "original model" Vaquero, as they did with their classic 22 Semi-Auto; Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, Mark IV, they decided to call it the New Vaquero, which has caused endless confusion because as you say, all Rugers with transfer bars are New Models. At the time I wondered, what are they going to call the next iteration, New and Improved? Furthermore, to further confuse things, there are a few Distributor Exclusive New Vaqueros that simply have Vaquero, not New Vaquero, stamped on the frame, despite the fact that they are clearly the smaller framed version.

the features that enhance hunting and sporting use such as adjustable sights and magnum power cartridges are not allowed in cowboy games.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but Adjustable Sights ARE legal in SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) sponsored Cowboy Action Shooting events. Here is a quote from the Shooter's Handbook: "Original single action revolvers manufactured prior to 1899, their approved replicas, and the SASS approved single action adjustable sight revolvers are the only revolvers approved for use in SASS main match competition."

Adjustable sights put the shooter in a different category, than the fixed sight categories, but they are allowed. Being in a different category only means you are not scored with the guys shooting fixed sights. You shoot on the same posse, at the same time, the only time it matters is when the scores are tallied. Guys with Adjustable Sights are scored separately from the different fixed sight categories.

Cowboy Action shooting is a game. Like many other games that were once fun, it has been taken over by "gamers" who write rules to "enhance" the game the way they see it, not necessarily the way we would.

Rather than posting generalizations about a sport that you obviously don't care for, you might consider attending a match some time so you could get your facts straight. As I stated earlier, I have been shooting CAS for 20 years. Most of the competitors are not "gamers" they are just guys who grew up watching Westerns on TV and in the movies, and like to shoot guns typical of the Old West. CAS is not historical recreation and does not claim to be. To quote the Shooter's Handbook: "Cowboy Action Shooting is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday morning at the matinee." Yes, Lead bullets are required and velocity is held down because we shoot at steel plates. High velocity will damage the plates, denting them, which can cause splatter to bounce back.

If you don't like CAS, that is your prerogative, but please get your facts straight.

[BoogieMan]

You guys have been very helpful. I think the Blackhawk is the way to go. Like the idea of 41mag. Can I chamber any type of cheaper ammo in 41mag? The SBH is a nice setup as well. But, looks like a it runs about 6-8oz heavier on average. I get to use 44s ammo, although its not really any less expensive than 44mag. 41mag seems to be about the same price as 44M&S. I can always grab a set of dies and load away. Cant imagine shooting the volume in SA that I do in pistols. Simply takes to long to load. From teh sounds of it I can participate in CAS with the 41 on a non-sanctioned leval. Thats really all I need. My lever is 30-30 anyway.

[Jim Watson]

There is nothing to shoot in a .41 Magnum like .38 Special in .357 Magnum or .44 Special in .44 Magnum guns. There is a wildcat .41 Special but you are not going to find them at the general store.

To shoot regulation CAS, you must have two revolvers and a pistol caliber rifle or carbine, also a shotgun.
Your .30-30 would not be allowed any place I have shot because it would crater or hole the mild steel targets.

[Driftwood Johnson]

You guys have been very helpful. I think the Blackhawk is the way to go. Like the idea of 41mag. Can I chamber any type of cheaper ammo in 41mag? The SBH is a nice setup as well. But, looks like a it runs about 6-8oz heavier on average. I get to use 44s ammo, although its not really any less expensive than 44mag. 41mag seems to be about the same price as 44M&S. I can always grab a set of dies and load away. Cant imagine shooting the volume in SA that I do in pistols. Simply takes to long to load. From teh sounds of it I can participate in CAS with the 41 on a non-sanctioned leval. Thats really all I need. My lever is 30-30 anyway.

You will need two revolvers. Some matches allow one revolver only in unofficial categories, but those matches tend to be few and far between. Also, you will have to download standard 41 Mag ammo, the velocity is too high with standard off the shelf 41 Mag. Maximum velocity for pistols is 1000 fps, maximum velocity for rifles is 1400 fps. And bullets must be lead. As I said earlier, this is so the steel plates do not get damaged.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but 30-30 is not a legal rifle cartridge. Main Match rifles are restricted to cartridges commonly known as 'pistol cartridge'. 45 Colt, 44-40, 44 Magnum (loaded down from standard velocity) 44 Special, 357 Magnum (loaded down) 38 Special are a few, not all of the cartridges allowed in Main Match rifles. Sorry, them's the rules. Cartridges such as 45-70, 38-55, and 30-30 can be use in the Long Range and Single Shot competitions, but those are separate from the standard shooting that happens in a normal stage. As I am pretty sure I have said earlier, to shoot in a regular match, you need two revolvers, a rifle (chambered for a pistol cartridge, I don't think I mentioned that) and a shotgun.

Why not read all about it on the SASS Wire, where you can ask all kinds of questions?

https://forums.sassnet.com/


You can check out the Shooter's Handbook at this link:

https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/Sh...2%20MASTER.pdf

[Bob Wright]

If I may inject some thoughts here regarding Single Action revolvers........

I had a 1975ish vintage Uberti Cattleman revolver imported by Iver Johnson. This gun had a unique safety that was every bit as goo and reliable as modern (well, older modern) Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers. This gun had the four-click action many are so fond of, but had a steel bar in the face of the hammer. When the hammer was placed in the safety notch, the trigger sear activated and the safety bar pivoted down between the hammer face and frame, blocking any travel of the hammer to reach the primer of the cartridge. Made the hammer sort of ugly, but was a good safety that was easily applied and easily disengaged. The steel bar is just below the firing pin:



Most newer Ubertis have what is caled the "Swiss Safe" type safety, which is the two position base pin. This abomination is about the least practical "safety" everr devised.

Bob Wright