870 or Mossberg?

[precision_shooter]

I can tell you this much if you would hand the 2 guns in this poll to a true machinist that could study each design and funtionablility of parts and what will last longer, the machinist would say 870 hands-down.

That made me laugh.....Still Laughing.....Give me a minute.......Almost there.....

Whew, ok, um, try telling that to the US military. What gun passed their tests and do they use? wait for it.....









That's right, the good ole Mossberg 590.

[jmr40]

The Mossberg 500 sure didn't pass the military tests. It was the 590. Mossberg had to redesign a different gun just to be eligible to enter the trials. Even then it didn't beat out anyone because they were the only gun tested. The military set a pretty low bar and the Mossberg made the grade. The trials only called for functioning through 3000 rounds. The Remington 870's routinely have gone through over 100,000 rounds when used by trap shooters.

The 590 is a much better choice than the 500 for a self defense gun, but I still much prefer the 870

[precision_shooter]

Even then it didn't beat out anyone because they were the only gun tested. The military set a pretty low bar and the Mossberg made the grade.

They were the only gun tested because they were the only ones that could build a gun capable of the militaries (low bar) standards. Remington didn't even bother trying with the 870 cuz they knew they would fail. The 590 is offered to the public at around the same if not lower price than the 870. It must be the inferior parts in the 590 that make it so affordable. No, it's the fact that Remington over charges for sub-standard junk. The cost more because remington spends 10x the money on marketing instead of machining.

[Unbanded]

This thread is going nowhere fast. Both shotguns go boom just about every time and are both equally good choices...WHY? Well...

One argument for the Remmy is that it is made of slightly better quality. Yes, there are more metal parts which could mean it would only 1/1000 shots where the Mossberg might misfire 2/1000 shots.

But, to cancel that argument out is the Mossberg's higher capacity (out of the box) which means your life might be saved from the extra shot the Mossy gives you.

If you're using a shotgun for home defense you'll be better armed than the bad guy almost every time. I don't think it is worth our while to argue and nit pick every component of 2 guns that have proven themselves extremely reliable.

[TxGun]

You guys are getting goofy now.

1. The military didn't set a "low bar". They set a bar. It was a difficult one. Mossberg passed their tests. It proved itself a very capable shotgun.

2. Remington chose not to compete. They apparently felt they had about all they wanted with their dominant share of the LE market. Could they have competed and passed the test? Undoubtedly. Could they have outbid Mossberg? Maybe, maybe not. There was probably some reluctance on their part to try, but that is conjecture.

3. The 590 is basically the 500 with a few improvements. I'd hardly call it "redesigning a different gun". The 500 is probably 80-90% of what a 590 is.

4. Both are good shotguns. Both have a few cons and a lot of pros. Emotional statements do not further your case.

[Brad Clodfelter]

Well I'll be!

The cheap old Rem 870 Express has passed up the super spec precision quality Moss 500 shotgun here where Mossberg fans reign supreme.

It's a miracle.

[Greg_TX]

Well, if it matters any to the OP, the 870 seems to have a better selection of aftermarket parts and accessories. At least that's the impression I get when trying to find things for my Mossy 500.

[jmr40]

The discussions over which is better will never end. For my money the 870 is the better choice. The 590 is perfectly acceptable, but the 500 just does not make the grade for me. But to use the military trials to justify either gun is just plain nonsense. Have you read the requirements? The guns only had to survive 3000 rounds without falling apart. I don't call that much of a challenge.

[Unbanded]

Jmr40 was birthed with a silver spoon in his mouth. His honed tastes for quality boomsticks make him turn his pouty nose up at the Mossy 500. poo poo

[TxGun]

"The guns only had to survive 3000 rounds without falling apart. I don't call that much of a challenge."

Well, it involved just a little more than that. There were extreme heat tests, extreme cold tests, and drop tests to gauge durability and functionality. And yes, there was was that little, unimpressive 3000 round continuous firing of full-power buckshot test. Which, I'm sure you understand, is quite a bit different than firing 3000 rounds of buckshot over some extended period. How many people do you know who have even fired 3000 rounds of buck (about $2400 -2500) in their lifetimes, much less in a continuous firing session? I'm not talking about those who build their "legends" over the internet. I'm talking about real hunters and shooters. Have you shot that many buck loads? I sure haven't. How many combat troops would fire 3000 rounds of buck continuously? Answer: they wouldn't. Most guns will not fire that many rounds in months or even years of service. And BTW, they were tested for functionality and wear after the firing test, so they weren't exactly "allowed" to "fall apart" upon test completion. Not much of a challenge? LOL...uh huh, right! Could the 870 do this? Of course it could...well, IMO it could. But it's certainly not a hurdle to lightly dismiss. I used to have a copy of the full test protocol. It's here somewhere....

[RoscoeC]

dont people ever get tired of debating?

Well, this is nothing like a debate. Webster defines debate as:

a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

This is not regulated nor is it a discussion.

Dave Mc C is right as rain.

To quote my shotgun instructor, Bill Davison, yet again:

"What is the best gun to fight with?...THE ONE YOU HAVE!!!"

If you can't run the gun, it won't make a tinker's damn what you have!

[GHF]

Works better for lefties, because it has a sliding safety on top, not something on the trigger guard.

[hogdogs]

Unbanded, what remington parts are metal where the mossberg uses plastic?
Please fill me in...
Brent

[the rifleer]

All i know is that i am completely 100% satisfied with my mossberg 500. at $219 brand new with two barrels, you cant beat it.

I will admit that the 870 is a bit nicer to look at, especially with a wood stock, but both are such good shotguns that it really doesn't matter which you buy. i have never shot an 870, but i did look at one and passed and bought my mossberg.

I dont think that there is truely an answer to which is better.

Mossberg pros-

safety and slide release location, both can be operated without taking the gun off your shoulder or breaking the sight picture.

Its lighter than the 870

it holds more ammo off out of the box.

Its has two extractors

about $100 less than the 870


now for the 870-

steel receiver

Been around longer

said to have better chokes


In the end both have pros and cons. Mossbergs biggest con is the aluminum receiver and the plastic trigger group/safety.

May i ask which major rifle of the united states armed forces has an aluminum receiver and a couple plastic parts? Its really isnt an issue and the receiver is lighter and is plenty strong for use in a shot gun. plus it doesn't corrode like steel, which would make it easier to take care of in high humidity environments.


people also say that mossbergs are loosely built...

thats so that when you drop it in the sand or mud it doesnt jam up and continues to fire when you need it. I really like my mossberg and have no reason to buy an 870.


Now lets change the subject,

Ford trucks are WAY better than Chevys...

[Boats]

For home defense, the Mossberg is superior.

The 500/590 is a fighting shotgun, the 870 is a modified bird gun, and it shows in how they handle in regards to the safety and action lever placement choices. It's almost like Remington decided to purposely make a slow handling and low capacity pump shotgun.

Oh wait, that is exactly what they did. And its fans have been tinkering with workarounds ever since.

[USMCGrunt]

Well, I have a couple of each variety, a Mossberg 500, Mossberg 590, Remington 870 Wingmaster and a Remington 870 Sportsman (a discontinued mid-grade model between the Express and Wingmaster) so I really can't say one is better than the other but my leanings are towards the Mossberg and here's why:

The safety on the Mossberg is ambidextrious that is an advantage for right or left handed shooters or those that practice weak-handed drills as well. There is no problem with working the safety with either hand. Yes, the plastic button is a breakage-prone item (broke one myself years ago) although that's a $10-15 fix with a metal one. Remington advocates rightly point out that the stock button is breakage prone however they do tend to forget Remington's adventures with the J-lock safety button that Mossberg owners can also cite. Again, an easy swap of parts and the J-lock remadies that problem if your 870 came with one.
The slide release on the Mossberg is in a better location for easy manipulation. It falls right under your middle finger where either left or right handed shooters and doesn't require the shooter to break their grip to depress it. How often are you going to need to depress the slide release? Maybe not all that often but for the same reason a lot of us CCW, it's a good option to have even if you never need to use it.
The shell lifter on the Mossberg is skeletonized and rides against the bottom of the bolt when the slide is forward. There is no need to depress the lifter when loading the magazine tube. I've never done it but I've heard of people that have had their thumbs snagged by the lifter of an 870 that is impossible with the Mossberg design. What I have expereinced first hand though was when unloading my 870 Sportsman by depressing the shell latches was having a shell shoot out of the magazine and on top of the lifter with the bolt forward. That was NOT a fun time trying to get the shell out and required taking the gun apart in order to do it. My solution was to dremel a cut about 3/4th of the way along the length of the lifter so if that does ever happen again, a knife blade can be used to push the shell back into the magazine. Current 870s come with the flex tab where all the operator has to do is to pump the action again to clear the stoppage and for older guns, a flex-tab conversion is also available as well. However, the Mossberg doesn't have this problem to begin with so here again I rate that a superior design to the Remington.
Another thing from an armorers persepective is that the Mossberg may have more pieces to keep track of during disassembly, they are easier to repair. When a shell catch goes bad in a Mossberg, simply put in a new one when you reassemble it. If an ejector breaks, it's held in the receiver by a simple screw that even the mechanically declined can replace. When I have to replace a shell catch or ejector in an 870, it requires restaking that part into the receiver. My last command had a few OLD 870s that were 1-2 staking jobs away from being red-tagged as there wasn't enough metal left to do many more parts replacements requiring any more staking!
Where the Remington does have advantages (both real and in theory) are in it's steel receiver and number of accessories avaiable for it. In theory, the steel receiver should be stronger than the alunimum receiver of the Mossberg. In reality though, the bolt of the Mossberg locks into the steel shank of the barrel much like the locking lugs of an M-16 locking into the barrel and being a CATM instructor these days, I seen a lot of OLD M-16s with their alunimum uppers that have fired a lot of rounds, been rebarreled several times and the receiver is still just fine. I think when you look at it from that perspective, the steel receiver superiority of the 870 is only theoretical. What is real though is the sheer number of aftermarket parts available for the Remington. If there's an aftermarket part made for the Mossberg, there is likely a Remington version also produced but if there is an aftermarket product made for the 870, there might be a version made for the Mossberg...but not necessarily. Magazine tubes and barrels are one such example.
Finally as far as the Mossberg being the shotgun adopted by the Military, that's true...partly. When I was in the Marines in the late 80s and early 90s, the Mossberg 590 was the standard shotgun that was phasing out the old 870s and Winchester 1200s we then had in inventory. However, these days as a CATM instructor for the USAF, I have never seen a Mossberg here and have only seen Remington 870s. First were the old wood-stocked Police models that may be the 5-round variety or fitted with the 7-round magazine and bayonet lug. Today they are being phased out in favor of the new 870MCS (Modular Combat Shotgun) using the same 870 design but with Speedfeed-IV pistol grip stocks, variable barrel lengths, magazine capacities, screw-in chokes, rifle sights and a rail on the top of the receiver as well as a barrel/magazine band with a rail section on it as well. To say that the Mossberg is the "official military shotgun" is correct but only up to a point. The 870 is also serving in the military as well.
In either case, you aren't going to go wrong with either design. You just have to recognize the strengths and weakness's of each design and go from there. At the end of the day, it's a Ford/Chevy thing in that both trucks will get you from point A to B equally as well. It just depends on what emblem you want to have on the grill.

[freakintoguns]

Chevys stomp fords sir


either shotgun is agreat choice. just get the one that you like better

[Brad Clodfelter]

Yea Remington has been hit hard with the added features on the Mossberg guns like the rattling forearm and cheaper made chokes. They are planning to add these features soon to their 870 line so that Mossberg doesn't get to far ahead in the noise features.

And I forgot to mention the weak firing pin springs that Mossberg seems to put out there that keeps a gun from going bang each time.

[hogdogs]

Yeah them firing pin springs... My 500 20 gauge doesn't seem to have one at all...
When did they start using a firing pin spring? Nary a NO BANG problem in any gun I have owned or operated.


Them rattlin' actions... I don't mind the "po' little tink tink" sound when just walkin' but for times when stealth is required (sneakin' for a twig headed deer) I ave learned to carry in the barrel up with my foreward hand putting a slight tweak of rotation and it is silent as a church mouse.

Cheaper made chokes cost me less? Wonderful! I am using one simply to keep the threads from getting boogered up. I ain't refined enuff to appreciate a "fine" choke tube.
Brent

[dogngun]

The 500, and keep it as simple as possible.
It was good enough for the US military, it is reliable, rugged, easy to maintain, has better placement of controls, better ejection and feeding.
The 870 is a very classy shotgun and great field gun.
Mossberg 500 is a very good field gun, and first rate HD gun - I have one next to my bed, homemade 19" barrel with a bandolier of 00 buck and slugs hanging on it, no other additions to change the weight. I like to keep the weight of the ammo, etc off the gun, and have nothing to distract me if I wake up suddonly and need the gun.
ADDED: I also have a long ported barrel with screw in chokes for the 500 for hunting, so it does double duty.

I carried a M12 Trench Gun in the Army about 40 years ago, and all the above is just my opinion.

mark

[fish-a-holic]

All things being equal in my eyes I purchased the Mossberg because they have a 10 year Warranty and Reminton has a 2 year. My thought is that Remigton "expects" something to break after 2 years. But that is just my opinion.
As for the Military debate. The US Army chose the Mossberg. The US Air Force went for the 870. This is because the Army wants something that will work whereever and whenever needed. The Air Force believes that looks and expense equal a good buy. Except for range duty I don't see where the Air Force 870's will see to much action. JMHO

[USMCGrunt]

The Air Force believes that looks and expense equal a good buy. Except for range duty I don't see where the Air Force 870's will see to much action. JMHO

They are used on some flightlines and other facilites where excess range and penetration from an M4 are a problem. They are also used extesively for guard duty as well. We trained up a lot of cops with the shotgun going off to Bucca for detainee ops here a while back. But yeah, for the typical Air Force, shotguns are rarely used (or even their regular A2s for that matter) but they do see a little more use than just on the ranges.

[irishzen]

I went back and forth between deciding I wanted a Mossberg or Remington.

I ended up with the Remington 870 express HD. Yes, a bit more expensive, but I liked the extra weight, the firmness of the action, and overall I felt is was of better quality -- while it cost a bit more I won't be buying 6 guns, probably just a couple of barrels if I decide to hunt with it.

I can understand why others choose the mossberg. I liked the safety, the look, the price was a bit cheaper. Maybe the looseness in the action is a benefit when it gets down and dirty, not a detriment.

I can also understand why Remington may not have bid for a military contract against Mossberg. They were probably not willing to underbid Mossberg. I have no doubt either company could have qualified and met all the requirements.

If you bought a mossberg you got a fine gun. It has a value price, is well made, and completely ready to kill bad guys.

If you bought a remington you got a fine gun as well. It is really personal preference. I'd buy both but I have no need for two shotguns.

[J.Smith]

All the HD shotgun you'll ever need, 590A1 with iron sights, loaded with Federal 00 Buck shot. No lasers, side saddles, scopes, pistol grips, flashlight front grips.... or any other tacticool crap is going to make an intruder anymore dead. 590A1 goes boom when you pull the trigger. Knoxx stock reduces recoil which is neccessary when the possibility of 8 follow up shots of 00 buck is looming. Makes on target follow up shots much easier and quicker to make. If you can't do it with 9 shots of 00 buck you shoulda brought an AR. THIS IS STRICTLY SPEAKING FOR HD. Obviously when it comes to hunting the Wingmaster or Express is designed for that task.

[Howaido]

The 870 is a very classy shotgun and great field gun.

...and the choice of law enforcement nationwide. I read an estimate of 500,000 870s in service in PDs all over the USA.

Although the true number could be determined, it might take a great deal of work. Remington probably doesn't even know how many departments use it.

With over 9 million sold, half a million in police hands might be about right. Just LASD recently bought over 4000, for example.