Moderators need to let some things slide...

[Dangus]

I get very peeved when totally justifiable posts are closed down because they are off-topic. It happens from time to time that there is a thread that SHOULD be posted, and is killed because it's not firearms related. Such is the case with the recent thread in General Discussion about the United Devices Cancer Research Program, which is a joint project with big supporters such as Intel, Stanford, and many others in the tech and medical sectors. This program may make a cure available as much as 50 years more quickly than would have been otherwise likely. Such a thing matters to everyone on this board, such a thing matters to the public in general, and also it displays to the world that we gun owners are compassionate people like everyone else. Most off-topic threads SHOULD be closed, but threads about things that important should be stickied and left at the top if nothing else. So can we please just let some threads like that slide from time to time?

[Rich Lucibella]

Dangus-
With all due respect, I get very peeved when some people assume it their birthright to tell us what the confines of discussion should be on the Board.

You think Cancer's important? Here's some of the non-TFL things I'm interested in:

- Child Abuse
- Heart Disease
- Crib Death
- Alzheimers
- Debunking Global Warming
- Discussions of turn of the century expeditions to the Poles
- Harley Davidsons
- Porsches

I'm certain each Member has his own list, too. So tell me: How shall we proceed to "let some things slide", while being fair to everyones' specific interests. Kindly provide practical guidelines.

Rich

[Hkmp5sd]

I am guilty of posting off topic messages myself. When that thread gets shutdown, I have no grounds to complain. I was the one breaking the rules.

The people that run this board invest a great deal of time and money in keeping it running, not to mention the vast knowledge they freely provide at no cost to us. If we want be granted access to this forum, we must abide by the polices they have created. If they shutdown a thread due to off topic, we must respect their judgement.

[BigG]

Thanks, Rich and crew, for keeping this site running straight and level!

Dangus, I know how you feel as I also have my special interests but as Rich notes this could quickly devolve to a glock-type site and it's not worth damaging what I believe is the finest site of its kind to further everybody's personal agendas.

[Dangus]

Rich, I really do respect you and what you do here. I do think it's a bit rediculous to expect me not to have opinions on how moderation should occur though. We are libertarians are we not? Free thinking is our bread and butter, or should be anyhow. This is the suggestions and questions forum as well, so I'm not sure why there should be any anger whatsoever regarding questions of this nature, but that's just me.

As for guidelines, I do believe that whilst there could be specific guidelines, moderators certainly have enough brains to realize what is and is not something worth letting slide.

Debunking the idea of global warming is nowhere near as important as curing cancer, at least not in the true sense of human necessity, so I think that would be excluded. Child abuse is a huge problem, and awareness exists, but posting threads about it really won't raise awareness any higher, because really, everyone knows about it. So it would probably be excluded most of the time. Crib death is on the decline, and it's hard to calculate what causes it, so threads offering TFL members a chance to contribute to it's cure is extremely unlikely, so chances are, it would be excluded as well. Basically threads which are just about awareness, or asking for money are really not what I would consider worth letting slide, but this is a major human health issue, and a free program is being offered to speed up the cure far beyond when we would have had it otherwise. We will cure cancer, and the research agent will almost certainly play a huge role in that. Not only does cancer strike many people on this board, but it will absolutely be gauranteed to strike at least one person in your extended family, so at some point it WILL hit home. Heaven forbid, but it may even strike you personally. If that were to happen I think you'd change your tune about it considerably, and you'd be eager to have every computer you possibly could cranking out ligand connections....

This is a sensitive topic to me right now, as I just lost Dad to cancer at the end of July. I'm certainly not looking to fight with anyone or boss anyone around, but I believe strongly in this and felt this was the proper venue to convey those feelings.

[Ben Swenson]

Dangus,
TFL - Rich's 'house', Rich's rules.
Not all of us are (L/l)ibertarian, but those of us who are believe in lack of gov't intervention. Just because you have the right to say something, doesn't mean Rich has to grant you a forum to say it in.
Sometimes I get frustrated when LawDog goes on one of his thread closing sprees, or a spirited discussion gets shut down just as it's getting good, but then I consider that these techniques have kept TFL going strong for years. So I usually keep my mouth shut.
I'm sorry about your dad, but the primary purpose of TFL is not to cure cancer.

[Rich Lucibella]

Dangus-
First off, I don't mind you having "opinions" or expressing them here publicly. But when you start a "suggestion" by telling us how "peeved" our actions make you, you can pretty much bet that (unless we offer an apology), we'll be responding in kind. You are not thinking clearly and you are not thinking fairly.

Secondly, your heart was on your sleeve in the first post. I suspected then that you were touched closely by cancer, and I'm truly sorry. However, your second post simply proves my point:
1) Child Abuse isn't as important as Cancer....to you. Tell that to an adult victim.
2) Crib Death isn't as important as Cancer...to you. Tell that to an affected Father or Mother.
3) The Moderators have enough sense to walk the line. Oh, do they? Would that be by implementing your "guidelines"? In effect, you haven't posted any. You've only stated that Cancer discussions should be exempted from Off-Topic. Why not give others the same latitude? If World Hunger is Real Important to someone, should their interests not be given the same consideration as yours? That becomes an endless list.

Look, TFL can't be everything to everyone, 24/7. Yes, there's support to be found here for any number of personal life crises. There are many places to spread the word about Cancer Research...but lots where it just doesn't fit. There are reasons why Calculus is not taught in American History and why Physics is not included in Literature texts.....to avoid chaos.

Rich

[Chuck Dye]

I think it worth noting that the thread was locked, not deleted as it could have been, could still be. The link is still there, still functions. All that has been lost is the ability to bump it or see it bumped to the top. Very gentle treatment for an off topic thread.

[Hemicuda]

Dangus...

Look at it this way... post the occasional off-topic thing... people WILL see it brfore it's closed, and falls off the board...

Rich has a GUN and RKBA board, and it IS Rich's and Rich's alone...

I too am guilty of slipping the occasional off-topic post on in there... I have had them closed too, and I have YET to be chewed out, or to get mad about it...

they ARE pretty lenient about it... some of these things have to be stretched pretty far to be gun or RKBA related...

Cancer is a big thing for me too, right now, as my father is battling it (and finally winning) and has been for over a year... (I am NOT ready to give him up... I DO want his guns, but not for alotta years yet!)

but it still isn't gun related... no harm, no foul, you posted, they closed as off topic, move on... afterall, when you POSTED it you knew it was off topic!

[Mark II]

Hey Dangus Maby you should try www.gunandgame.com

[Dangus]

1) Child Abuse isn't as important as Cancer....to you. Tell that to an adult victim.

With all due respect, that is not what I said. I said that the cause of child abuse prevention does not benefit significantly by posting about it on this webforum, whereas cancer does. It's clear I did NOT say it was less important. As a matter of fact, it ruins lives in a way cancer never could. Again, I did NOT say that it was less important, just that it's not directly going to benefit from being discussed here because everyone knows about it, and there are no user participation programs that I know of to develop child abuse prevention that can be performed online.

2) Crib Death isn't as important as Cancer...to you. Tell that to an affected Father or Mother.

Crib death does not kill as many people, and it is on the decline. I did NOT say that it was less important though. I stated that we could not do anything for the cause by posting off-topic threads about it. If someone figures a way to, then by all means it should be allowed to slide, in my opinion anyway.

3) The Moderators have enough sense to walk the line. Oh, do they? Would that be by implementing your "guidelines"? In effect, you haven't posted any. You've only stated that Cancer discussions should be exempted from Off-Topic. Why not give others the same latitude? If World Hunger is Real Important to someone, should their interests not be given the same consideration as yours? That becomes an endless list.

I DID post guidelines.

Here:

Basically threads which are just about awareness, or asking for money are really not what I would consider worth letting slide, but this is a major human health issue, and a free program is being offered to speed up the cure far beyond when we would have had it otherwise.

If someone figures out a research program for child abuse, down syndrome, MS, etc. and it's not just some cheap scam to get money, I think it should slide. It is not solely isolated to cancer, but could include AIDS, Anthrax(by the way, the United Devices Cancer Research Project took some time off early this year to process Anthrax and got more done in 1/3 of a year than conventional research has done in the last 20), alzhiemers, etc.

Considering how many middle-aged men are involved in this community, cancer and heart disease in particular are serious threats, and I would bet that this particular community has a higher rate of it than our political rivals, due if nothing else to dietary differences. Liberals just tend to be nitpicky eaters from what I have witnessed, whereas conservatives tend to be the type to eat huge traditional steak and potato meals. We're probably dying of these things faster than they are. Just something else to think about.

[Mal H]

Dangus - A suggestion:

You are obviously fervent about the topic of fighting cancer, and rightly so. We are obviously not going to change the policies and procedures of TFL. However, there is one way for you to continue getting the word out here on TFL without breaking any rules. And, perhaps more importantly, it will be longer lasting than a single thread that will eventually sink down the list. You can add the pertinent link and a short blurb concerning what it is to your signature. That way the link will show up each time you post on any subject. Perhaps its not as eye catching as a full fledged thread, but it will help in a small way.

[Mark II]

Uh could you guys have a Of Topic room for non gun related topics?

[laynlow]

I come to the board to read about firearms. I go to my favorite detailing board to read about detailing. I go to my favorite Glock board to talk about my Glock (I think there is a pattern here).

Can you imagine if Rich was saddled with the bandwidth bill if this board was left to run wild with any kind of discussion?

Like others have said, it's a good thing that you are passionate about cancer, but there are more appropriate venues.

[Dangus]

I agree on the bandwidth bill part. Since Rich does not advertise here, I think it's completely understandable that he'd not run a general anything-goes discussion section. I know how crazy some of those can get on other boards, turning into 10 pages of pure junk. On a board that advertises though, it's pretty much a given that it not only should, but will have such a forum.