March 11, 2011, 03:28 PM | #1 |
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cannelure tool
I recently purchased a CH Tool and Die cannelure tool. It seems to work very well, its also simple and durably constructed of steel.
My purchase experience was very good... a real live person answered the phone right away. She was helpful, friendly and got the product to me right away. Approximately $67.00. I highly recommend them. |
March 11, 2011, 05:13 PM | #2 |
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Unless there is a specific problem that you are attempting to remedy, channelers serve no purpose.
Hunting bullets have them already, target bullets do not...target bullets should not be used for hunting, etc. Usually tubular magazine rounds only use a crimp to hold the bullet, a channeler on the case is usually not needed to prevent set-back. Why did you need one? |
March 11, 2011, 05:46 PM | #3 |
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Not all hunting bullets have a cannelure.
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March 12, 2011, 01:01 AM | #4 |
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oldscot3 are you swaging your own bullets?
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March 12, 2011, 07:44 AM | #5 |
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Sounds like this tool could be used to add one to plated bullets?
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March 12, 2011, 07:56 AM | #6 |
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My only use for the tool is to put a cannelure in .45ACP brass at the base of the bullet to prevent setback which can be a problem with something like a 185 gr JHP which is slick and has a short bearing surface. My FLG was using one of those roller tools for the purpose but I designed and he built a device to do it in one stroke on the loading press.
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March 12, 2011, 08:16 AM | #7 |
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Hello oldscot 3,,,
I have had my cannelure tool for nearly 12 years and have found it to be both useful for several reasons but to have one issue as well. The issue has been ( at least on my older unit ) that when a cannelure is cut it leaves a welt on both sides of the groove. This can lend to the bullets seating with an increase in the exspansion of the very end of the case neck that shortens the case life and will tell you right away if your necks should have been annealed to prevent splitting . I remedied this by running the cut bullets through a Lee push through bullet sizing die with the bullets lubed with RCBS case lube a couple of times and works great. This machine allows me to put a custom depth seating/crimp groove on many of my cast bullets as well as add one or more EXTRA lube grooves to some bullets I run through some old milsurps with l o n g barrels on them. Cannelures added to some fine older hunting bullets that do not come with a cannelure have shown me to add a slight increase in retained bullet weight when fired as well due to a slight increase in bonding of the jacket to the core. I have taken bullets with long load bearing surfaces on them such as 140 gr. 6.5 cal. and put one extra groove 1/4 inch lower than the crimping groove and found this to show a very respectable improvement in the mushroom of the bullet and decrease in the amount of fragmentation. point to note as well that many rifles have a long jump for the bullet to contact the lands and perform best with the bullet set back having the base of the bullet well up into the case neck. In these situations I like a positive crimp that be applied with a cannelure and can be easily adapted to an extremely wide range of calibres including wildcats. Those Redding taper crimp dies and even the Lee FCD dies get expensive when they are one per calibre. I have and use them too . Is this worth the time and trouble ??? It has been for me and it gives me more to fiddle with in the winter months . Striving to make my firearms perform to their fullest potential is why I reload. Am thoroughly convinced reloading hasn't save me one thin dime over the years bust has been a very gratifying endeavor 10 SPOT |
March 12, 2011, 06:29 PM | #8 |
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Sorry for the delayed response, I've been away from the computer...
I'm using the tool to place a second cannelure on two different jacketed bullets that I use in my 44 special. You are all probably aware that jacketed bullets have the cannelure placed by the factory to accomodate 44 magnum cases. 44 special cases are an 1/8th inch shorter and result in shorter OALs when crimped into the factory cannelure. I'm reducing the extra bullet jump with the properly located cannelure to see what effect it might have on accuracy. 10 spot - my tool instructions say to roll the cannelure in only .005". I have inspected them carefully under a magnifying glass and can't see any indication of distortion, and also can't detect any distortion with my dial calipers. |
March 13, 2011, 08:29 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
Time spent channeliering jacketed .44 Special bullets would be better used to cast lead bullets. O.K. Elmer Keith, you can stop rolling over in your grave. |
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March 13, 2011, 10:30 AM | #10 |
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I use, and appreciate the all the attributes of lead bullets, but I respectfully disagree that the use of jacketed bullets can only be "justified" by self defense loads.
Copper jacketed bullets have proved their worth for a wide variety of uses since long before I was born, and today's bullet manufacturers just keep on improving them every year. The two I'm using, in addition to lead cast bullets, are no exception regardless of whether they're being used in a 44 special, a 44 magnum, or even a 444 Marlin. |
March 13, 2011, 01:32 PM | #11 |
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I'm with oldscot.
It's his tool, his bullets, his time, his money, and his quest for improved accuracy. Lead may be perfectly suited to most .44 Special loads, but that doesn't mean it has to be used. Many reloaders here would cringe, and have a look of puzzlement when I told them I'm loading 215 grain Woodleigh RN protected points for my M38 Mosin-Nagant. I have a very legitimate reason, but it would be difficult for them to see past the "expensive bullet plus cheap rifle". Complicating things even more, is the fact that I shoot them at velocities gas-checked lead would be perfectly fine at. My rifle, my time, and my quest for the superior load... I think it's a waste of time to shoot light bullets in a .30-06 (like 110/125 gr HPs), or work up Blue Dot loads for a Weatherby magnum. ...But I understand why people do it.
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March 13, 2011, 02:09 PM | #12 |
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I wouldn't ever touch a pc of brass with that wheel. Be nice to your wheel and it will last a long time. Don't press too hard, two revolutions are better than one hard one and your wheel will last a lot longer...
Anneal 45acp brass? Now I've heard it all... |
March 13, 2011, 02:45 PM | #13 |
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I still don't think you have. 10 Spot was referring to rifle cases, as near as I can tell.
I spoke with a Sierra tech one time about the plain vs. cannelured versions of the 77 grain .224" MatchKing, and he said learning to knurl without distorting the bullet unacceptably takes some effort. The advice to go two light turns rather than one hard one is probably helpful in this regard. Better depth control and less asymmetry from distortion at any given point in each turn. It's certainly less stressful on any kind of knurling tool to make multiple light passes, if time allows.
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March 13, 2011, 05:32 PM | #14 |
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My tool's instructions say to use "firm pressure" , I discovered the necessity is that the bullet will jump off the rollers and fall out of the tool if you don't. After rolling a few I learned about how much pressure is needed and developed the touch.
I haven't got it to the exact science of just two turns, but the CH tool I'm using has a set screw to limit the depth of the groove, just .005" is their recommendation. I found that to be plenty and I may even decrease it a bit. Close examination under a magnifying glass and careful measurement with calipers hasn't revealed any distortion so far as I can tell. Perhaps some lazy day I'll rig something up to roll some bullets and put a dial indicator on them. As a reminder I'm just doing this to handgun bullets, nothing that's intended for ranges beyond 25 to 50 yards tops. |
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