Neck sizing Vs. Full length on certain cases

Renegade19sc · September 2, 2015, 11:32 PM

I have read that some like to neck size only for all cases. I have also read that Neck sizing is ideal for belted magnums such as 7mm Rem Mag and cases such as the 308, 30-06 are better to be full length sized.

F. Guffey · September 3, 2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

I have read that some like to neck size only for all cases.

Renegade19sc, Me two, I have also read about neck sizing some cases and full length sizing other cases. Then someone goes straight to bench rester's methods and techniques. Always absent? Rational: most reloaders respond with "I want my cases to last a life time". Life time? The life of the case, the life of the rifle or the life of the shooter?

Then there is that part about stretch, there is a real cute saying, goes something like the firing pin strikes the primer then the whole thing takes off for the shoulder of the chamber etc., etc.. If there wan any truth to that cute saying every case stretches in the worst of places every time it is fired and there is nothing a reloader can do about it.

Just saying

Not really but it would help if a reloader has methods and techniques they should have rational as to 'WHY' and 'BECAUSE'.

I have neck sizing dies, I have small base dies, I have forming dies, I can size a case to minimum length/full length size with a standard full length sizing die. I can use the same die and size a case for a short chamber (.017" shorter than a minimum length size case) to infinity. Infinity would include a chamber without a shoulder or a more practice length that would be .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case (that would be .011" longer than a 30/06 go-gage length chamber.

All of that without grinding the top of the shell holder or bottom of the die.

F. Guffey

Panfisher · September 3, 2015, 08:40 AM

I switched from neck sizing to full length sizing on everything some years back and don't regret it a bit. I am not a competitive target shooter and simply got tired of having some rounds chamber hard, when hunting I want them to run smooth and clean. Also I load for several friends at times and I want to be sure the cases will run clean in their rifles at well. Only belted mag I still load is the 7 mm Rem mag.

Metal god · September 3, 2015, 09:41 AM

I think it's a preference thing , either will work just fine . Are you looking for a specific reason why everyone thinks there way is the best ? I , like Panfisher neck sized only for awhile . I did not like the tight bolt closing and on those sometimes got sticky bolt lifts . I went back to FL Minimal sizing and accuracy is no different .

I have multiple rifles in same calibers and I size cases per each chamber . How ever when my brass gets close to the end of it's life but still has a couple firings left in them ( based on my time line ) They get sized to the length of my Forster GO gage , loaded and put up for SHTF days . This way they should chamber in any rifle I have or may have in the future .

Slamfire · September 3, 2015, 11:39 AM

I recommend full length resizing, in fact, I use small base dies in every caliber that I can find them. Always, always, regardless of cartridge, use case gages to set up your sizing die.

This is how it works:

Bad practices manage to creep into the public domain, becoming sacrosanct, without anyone ever testing the practice, or knowing how it started. Recently I was talking to bud about engine rebuilding. We wondered about the advice to segregate push rods, ensure that the old push rods go back into place exactly where they had been, but, with new pushrods, you simply put them where you want. We thought this practice was one of these untested sacrosanct ideas that everyone follows.

So when it gets to the advice to neck size, I don't know where it really started. It certainly is the lazy man's reloading technique. Until such time as the cases won't reliability extract, which Metal God found, then folks reconsider.

I also think idea that it extends case life came from reloader's who never set up their dies with case gages. This is the difference between Go and NO Go. This is the maximum allowable stretch allowed by the designer and manufacturer of a cartridge case with one firing.

Some don't believe in stretch, provide bizarre advice on how to set up a sizing die by feeling, or feeler gages, and don't believe in standardization. I am of the opinion that these are the ones who proclaimed the wonders of neck sizing. They sized their cases too much in a sizing die, the cases stretched apart in a couple of firings, and since these Wayward Corpses* don't believe in headspace, or case stretch due to oversizing, they assigned their short case life to full length resizing.

*The Wayward Corpse is a creature that escaped the clutches of the Mortician, ran off to the public library, and from hence, logged onto the internet. The foggy, fuzzy, information flow of their posts is a result of embalming fluids eating the synapses of their brain. The post mortem career's of Wayward Corpses can be quite long, all depending on the temperature and humidity of their location.

F. Guffey · September 3, 2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Recently I was talking to bud about engine rebuilding. We wondered about the advice to segregate push rods, ensure that the old push rods go back into place exactly where they had been, but, with new pushrods, you simply put them where you want. We thought this practice was one of these untested sacrosanct ideas that everyone follows.

And that is it? No one offered any suggestions on 'WHY?' Just two engine builders trying to make themselves look good at others expense.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · September 3, 2015, 12:16 PM

Quote:

This is how it works:

The L.E. Wilson case gage has been with us for 60+ years and that is all you know about the Wilson case gage? I suggest you find a copy of the instructions from about '55. That is how it works? With no moving parts.

F. Guffey

T. O'Heir · September 3, 2015, 12:40 PM

It's more about the type of rifle action than the cartridge. Semi-auto's, levers and pumps require FL resizing every time. Even for a bolt action, you'll have to FL resize eventually. If you ever buy once fired brass, you'll have to FL resize that too.
Personally, I've never used a case gauge to set up anything in 40 years or so. Never felt or gauged a feeling either. My M1 Rifle and 1903A4 eat the same brass just fine.

TimSr · September 3, 2015, 02:22 PM

I full length resize everything. Its just simpler that way, and I know the same ammo can be used in different rifles. The only thing I ever considered doing neck sizing for were those ones where the chamber was out of whack and stetching cases more than I cared for, like my 6.5 Jap Arisaka. My 7mm Rem Mag has such a good chamber fit that its cases almost glide through a resizing die.

Renegade19sc · September 3, 2015, 02:46 PM

I am learning about reloading. If there is a technique to save brass life I am all for it.

wogpotter · September 3, 2015, 03:43 PM

I'm actually surprised no one else has mentioned this.
It seems from the original post may be referring to belted magnums & rimmed cases, as opposed to "rimless" cases.

If that's the case then there is a lot of truth to it simply because rimmed & belted cases do not headspace on the shoulder, but on the rim or belt.

Neck sizing on those helps to not over work the neck & shoulder area which gives some advantages for case life & centering in the chambers.

ligonierbill · September 3, 2015, 04:30 PM

I've used both, but have mostly gone to the Wilson case gauges to set my full length sizing dies. Can't speak to case life, as I have enough 7 mm and .338 brass to be on about the second loading. Depends a lot on the rifle, of course.

skizzums · September 3, 2015, 04:44 PM

I just neck sized for the first time about a week ago. 54R. Haven't shot it yet, but I tested many rounds and none seemed offensively difficult to chamber.

Why? Not sure, something to try for accuracy and hopefully something to squeeze more reloads out of difficult to find brass. As for accuracy, I don't know yet, will hopefully on Sunday weather permitting.

745SW · September 3, 2015, 04:49 PM

T.O'Heir, I agree with your logic/experience.

603Country · September 3, 2015, 05:38 PM

I started out years ago FL sizing. Then I went to Partial FL resizing. That worked pretty well. Then I heard all about neck sizing, so I got some of those. These days I use a Lee Collet Die (neck size) where I have light to medium loads and the chambers aren't too tight. On some calibers, particularly if I'm loading them rather hot, I find that FL sizing to the point that the shoulder is bumped adequately, but not too much, is my best way to go.

I really like the Lee Collet Die. So easy and no lube required at all. That said, the most consistent way that fits just about everybody is to FL size just enough to bump that shoulder. Don't overdo it and push the shoulder back too far or you'll eventually wind up with case head separations as you use and reuse the cases.

4runnerman · September 3, 2015, 06:57 PM

If you are just bumping the shoulder back .002 then your good to go. I believe many studies have been done and the results were the same- Full Length Sizing produced a more accurate round on the average. Now if that bears on the rifle and other things I do not know. I was a Neck sizer for a few years and as others have said- I went to full length and have never looked back. I think this issue is about the same as Barrel Break in. Some do and swear by it, some don't and swear by it.

tangolima · September 3, 2015, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skizzums

I just neck sized for the first time about a week ago. 54R. Haven't shot it yet, but I tested many rounds and none seemed offensively difficult to chamber.

Why? Not sure, something to try for accuracy and hopefully something to squeeze more reloads out of difficult to find brass. As for accuracy, I don't know yet, will hopefully on Sunday weather permitting.

You will know after 4 or 5 firings. I tried neck sizing, and abandoned it rather quickly. It doesn't improve or save anything. It can be a pain in the neck sometimes. It produces minimal bullet grip and the bullet sets back when clambering from magazine.

-TL

603Country · September 3, 2015, 07:57 PM

Tangolima, with standard cases and a standard neck die, you shouldn't have bullets loose in the neck. But I know that it can happen in some instances. I was partial resizing for my 220 Swift for years (and it shot wonderfully), but I got myself a neck sizing die for it, just to see how it would shoot. I had some rather old Norma cases that I had shot a bazillion times and trimmed and reloaded and reshot. That was way back before I ever checked a neck wall thickness. So I neck sized, reprimed, threw a powder charge into the case, and went to seat a bullet. The bullet fell into the case. The neck wall was so thin that the neck die couldn't constrict it enough to hold a bullet. But that doesn't mean that a neck die won't work correctly. Still...I have retired the neck sizing dies because I felt that accuracy wasn't as good as when I partial resized. And my partial resizing, which didn't bump the shoulder, has evolved to partial FL resizing with the intent to bump the shoulder adequately.

5whiskey · September 3, 2015, 09:16 PM

Neck sizing isn't evil per se. Especially if you happen to shoot factory ammo out of your bolt rifle, neck size and re-use said brass out of that same rifle a couple of times. Making fairly accurate ammo with a collet die is almost dummy proof. It's possible to make ammo that is just as accurate (if not more so) with a properly adjusted FL die, it just isn't as easy to explain in a book as neck sizing.

I'm pretty sure neck sizing gained the popularity it had a few years ago because of Modern Reloading (Lee reloading manual). Richard Lee touted neck sizing only as the method to size cases for the most accurate ammo possible. That's not quite true, but there are kernels of truth to it. It is easier for a novice to make accurate ammo with a collet die than with a FL die. That's why I believe Richard Lee was an advocate of neck sizing only... honestly it's just easier for a novice reloader to make accurate ammo with it and it also is the only method that they could make their hand press work with larger rifle ammo. Since Lee dies and equipment are a little less expensive than most other equipment, it is reasonable to believe that their reloading manual is owned by quite a few folks and influenced thought some. It did mine. I was an advocate of neck sizing, but I've learned that FL sizing certainly has it's place in bolt rifles. I do still neck-size, but I may get away from it. As others have said, you WILL have to full length size eventually anyway. That is, unless you want to stomp on the bolt throw to close the action.

Lee makes some good dies for the money. I use them almost exclusively just because I reload on a budget, and I've made extremely accurate ammo with Lee dies. Their reloading manual is informative, but the instructions for setting dies up are a little basic. You can set a full-length die up to make super accurate ammo, but the Lee manual does not cover how to adjust a FL die to a specific rifle chamber. FL sizing does work the brass a little more, but I'm not convinced that you get significantly shorter case life with FL sizing if you size just enough to chamber the round without force.

To the OP... virtually any rifle caliber can be neck sized only so long as it is a bolt action rifle and the ammo you are sizing was fired out of that rifle. Your caliber selections for neck sizing only mirror calibers that are exclusively limited to bolt action rifles. The calibers you list for full length sizing are also common calibers for semi-auto rifles, which must be full-length sized. Just a thought.

Slamfire · September 3, 2015, 09:17 PM

Quote:

I am learning about reloading. If there is a technique to save brass life I am all for it.

This is an outstanding article on sizing, case gages, and extending case life:

Extending Cartridge Case Life
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm

I bought belted magnum case gages for my 300 H&H and 375 H&H. Base to shoulder length is not controlled for belted magnum chambers, which leads to a real problem concerning shoulder set back if you follow sizing die instructions to "size to the shell holder plus a quarter turn", or if you follow the advice of a Wayward Corpse to insert feeler gages between the die and shell holder.

I bought a 300 H&H from a shooter who said he never could get more than three reloads from cases fired in the rifle. I asked him if he used case gages to set up his sizing die, and he contemptuously answered "No!". I have up to five reloads on some of my cases, and no case separations to date.

tangolima · September 3, 2015, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 603Country

Tangolima, with standard cases and a standard neck die, you shouldn't have bullets loose in the neck. But I know that it can happen in some instances. I was partial resizing for my 220 Swift for years (and it shot wonderfully), but I got myself a neck sizing die for it, just to see how it would shoot. I had some rather old Norma cases that I had shot a bazillion times and trimmed and reloaded and reshot. That was way back before I ever checked a neck wall thickness. So I neck sized, reprimed, threw a powder charge into the case, and went to seat a bullet. The bullet fell into the case. The neck wall was so thin that the neck die couldn't constrict it enough to hold a bullet. But that doesn't mean that a neck die won't work correctly. Still...I have retired the neck sizing dies because I felt that accuracy wasn't as good as when I partial resized. And my partial resizing, which didn't bump the shoulder, has evolved to partial FL resizing with the intent to bump the shoulder adequately.

I was using Lee collet die. It has a mandrel to determine the ID of the neck. So the problem wasn't due to thin neck wall. It is Lee's own idea, as written in the instructions, that minimal bullet grid is good for accuracy. In other words, their collet dies are designed to have little neck tension. If more neck tension is desired, they suggest annealing the neck or sanding down the mandrel. It is rather silly.

Neck sizing is not evil. I'm sure it has its place in certain situations. It just doesn't do it for me. I myself quite like the idea of bushing die, or full length die with honed neck, such that no extender ball is needed. Of course neck turning becomes a necessity.

-TL

skizzums · September 4, 2015, 12:26 AM

When I just neck sized, I was impressed with the bullet hold. Granted I was using a 312 bullet in a 311 neck, I have some 311's coming next week, ill keep an eye on the hold. This is the first I have heard of this being a complaint though.

tangolima · September 4, 2015, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skizzums

When I just neck sized, I was impressed with the bullet hold. Granted I was using a 312 bullet in a 311 neck, I have some 311's coming next week, ill keep an eye on the hold. This is the first I have heard of this being a complaint though.

You may not have the same problem if you are not using Lee collet die, which the only neck sizing die I have tried.

-TL

1stmar · September 4, 2015, 02:21 AM

I use a Redding body die, push the shoulder back and a lee collet die. Runout is typically .001-.002. I use this method for auto loaders and bolts. It works. Well and case life is very good.

Colorado Redneck · September 4, 2015, 08:36 PM

Disclaimer--I am no sage on reloading.

When first starting to load center fire rifle, I started by using the FL die on new cases, and then just neck sizing. (Caliber was 22-250 only at that time.) After a time, some rounds were so long that the bolt was tough---or even impossible--to close. So after a few threads here in TFL, I finally figured out what "bump the shoulder back" actually refers to, and bought a Hornady Headspace Gauge. Away I went, FL sizing all my brass. By this time a 204 Ruger and 222 Remington was added to the armory, and all the rifles were loaded accordingly. All is well, accuracy is good, bolt closes, and case life seems better. Incidence of split necks dropped dramatically for the 222 Rem.

So, at that time the process was: used cases are tumbled, inside of the case necks are brushed/lubed, case lube is applied to the body of the case, and then it is run through the FL sizing die. Then the case lube is wiped off the outside, the inside of the case neck is swabbed with Q-tip. Then the cases are measured for length, and if needed trimmed, deburred and chamfered. The primer pocket is brushed. Primer is in stalled. Ready to load. Finally.

So after some of that boring and mind numbingly slow process, I wondered if all the brass needs FL sizing every time. It turns out that some does, but some doesn't. When I checked the fired brass before decapping/sizing, using the headspace gauge, 204 Ruger brass does not need to be FL sized. The load currently being used is with 24 gr. NTX bullets, IMR498 at max load, velocity around 4350 fps. For some reason the load must be such that the brass is undergoing absolute zero stretch. I have used some cases I designated specifically for this load 4 times and it shows no discernible stretch. Still within the headspace spec I am using. Saves me quite a bit of time when reloading that caliber. The 222 Remington---no way, has to be FL sized every time. 22-250--that caliber depends---I spend a few minutes and measure each case with the headspace gauge and segregate the cases that can be necksized from the others.

You can call neck sizing the lazy man's way. OK---if it works I'll take it. If not, then FL sizing is ok too.

September 2, 2015, 11:32 PM	#1
Renegade19sc Junior Member Join Date: May 2, 2014 Posts: 14	Neck sizing Vs. Full length on certain cases I have read that some like to neck size only for all cases. I have also read that Neck sizing is ideal for belted magnums such as 7mm Rem Mag and cases such as the 308, 30-06 are better to be full length sized.

September 3, 2015, 09:41 AM	#4
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I think it's a preference thing , either will work just fine . Are you looking for a specific reason why everyone thinks there way is the best ? I , like Panfisher neck sized only for awhile . I did not like the tight bolt closing and on those sometimes got sticky bolt lifts . I went back to FL Minimal sizing and accuracy is no different . I have multiple rifles in same calibers and I size cases per each chamber . How ever when my brass gets close to the end of it's life but still has a couple firings left in them ( based on my time line ) They get sized to the length of my Forster GO gage , loaded and put up for SHTF days . This way they should chamber in any rifle I have or may have in the future . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

September 3, 2015, 11:39 AM	#5
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I recommend full length resizing, in fact, I use small base dies in every caliber that I can find them. Always, always, regardless of cartridge, use case gages to set up your sizing die. This is how it works: Bad practices manage to creep into the public domain, becoming sacrosanct, without anyone ever testing the practice, or knowing how it started. Recently I was talking to bud about engine rebuilding. We wondered about the advice to segregate push rods, ensure that the old push rods go back into place exactly where they had been, but, with new pushrods, you simply put them where you want. We thought this practice was one of these untested sacrosanct ideas that everyone follows. So when it gets to the advice to neck size, I don't know where it really started. It certainly is the lazy man's reloading technique. Until such time as the cases won't reliability extract, which Metal God found, then folks reconsider. I also think idea that it extends case life came from reloader's who never set up their dies with case gages. This is the difference between Go and NO Go. This is the maximum allowable stretch allowed by the designer and manufacturer of a cartridge case with one firing. Some don't believe in stretch, provide bizarre advice on how to set up a sizing die by feeling, or feeler gages, and don't believe in standardization. I am of the opinion that these are the ones who proclaimed the wonders of neck sizing. They sized their cases too much in a sizing die, the cases stretched apart in a couple of firings, and since these Wayward Corpses* don't believe in headspace, or case stretch due to oversizing, they assigned their short case life to full length resizing. *The Wayward Corpse is a creature that escaped the clutches of the Mortician, ran off to the public library, and from hence, logged onto the internet. The foggy, fuzzy, information flow of their posts is a result of embalming fluids eating the synapses of their brain. The post mortem career's of Wayward Corpses can be quite long, all depending on the temperature and humidity of their location. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

September 3, 2015, 12:40 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	It's more about the type of rifle action than the cartridge. Semi-auto's, levers and pumps require FL resizing every time. Even for a bolt action, you'll have to FL resize eventually. If you ever buy once fired brass, you'll have to FL resize that too. Personally, I've never used a case gauge to set up anything in 40 years or so. Never felt or gauged a feeling either. My M1 Rifle and 1903A4 eat the same brass just fine. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 3, 2015, 03:43 PM	#11
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I'm actually surprised no one else has mentioned this. It seems from the original post may be referring to belted magnums & rimmed cases, as opposed to "rimless" cases. If that's the case then there is a lot of truth to it simply because rimmed & belted cases do not headspace on the shoulder, but on the rim or belt. Neck sizing on those helps to not over work the neck & shoulder area which gives some advantages for case life & centering in the chambers. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

September 3, 2015, 08:40 AM	#3
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	I switched from neck sizing to full length sizing on everything some years back and don't regret it a bit. I am not a competitive target shooter and simply got tired of having some rounds chamber hard, when hunting I want them to run smooth and clean. Also I load for several friends at times and I want to be sure the cases will run clean in their rifles at well. Only belted mag I still load is the 7 mm Rem mag.

September 3, 2015, 02:22 PM	#9
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I full length resize everything. Its just simpler that way, and I know the same ammo can be used in different rifles. The only thing I ever considered doing neck sizing for were those ones where the chamber was out of whack and stetching cases more than I cared for, like my 6.5 Jap Arisaka. My 7mm Rem Mag has such a good chamber fit that its cases almost glide through a resizing die.

September 3, 2015, 02:46 PM	#10
Renegade19sc Junior Member Join Date: May 2, 2014 Posts: 14	I am learning about reloading. If there is a technique to save brass life I am all for it.

September 3, 2015, 04:30 PM	#12
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	I've used both, but have mostly gone to the Wilson case gauges to set my full length sizing dies. Can't speak to case life, as I have enough 7 mm and .338 brass to be on about the second loading. Depends a lot on the rifle, of course.

September 3, 2015, 04:44 PM	#13
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I just neck sized for the first time about a week ago. 54R. Haven't shot it yet, but I tested many rounds and none seemed offensively difficult to chamber. Why? Not sure, something to try for accuracy and hopefully something to squeeze more reloads out of difficult to find brass. As for accuracy, I don't know yet, will hopefully on Sunday weather permitting. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 3, 2015, 04:49 PM	#14
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	T.O'Heir, I agree with your logic/experience.

September 3, 2015, 05:38 PM	#15
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I started out years ago FL sizing. Then I went to Partial FL resizing. That worked pretty well. Then I heard all about neck sizing, so I got some of those. These days I use a Lee Collet Die (neck size) where I have light to medium loads and the chambers aren't too tight. On some calibers, particularly if I'm loading them rather hot, I find that FL sizing to the point that the shoulder is bumped adequately, but not too much, is my best way to go. I really like the Lee Collet Die. So easy and no lube required at all. That said, the most consistent way that fits just about everybody is to FL size just enough to bump that shoulder. Don't overdo it and push the shoulder back too far or you'll eventually wind up with case head separations as you use and reuse the cases.

September 3, 2015, 06:57 PM	#16
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	If you are just bumping the shoulder back .002 then your good to go. I believe many studies have been done and the results were the same- Full Length Sizing produced a more accurate round on the average. Now if that bears on the rifle and other things I do not know. I was a Neck sizer for a few years and as others have said- I went to full length and have never looked back. I think this issue is about the same as Barrel Break in. Some do and swear by it, some don't and swear by it. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

September 3, 2015, 07:57 PM	#18
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Tangolima, with standard cases and a standard neck die, you shouldn't have bullets loose in the neck. But I know that it can happen in some instances. I was partial resizing for my 220 Swift for years (and it shot wonderfully), but I got myself a neck sizing die for it, just to see how it would shoot. I had some rather old Norma cases that I had shot a bazillion times and trimmed and reloaded and reshot. That was way back before I ever checked a neck wall thickness. So I neck sized, reprimed, threw a powder charge into the case, and went to seat a bullet. The bullet fell into the case. The neck wall was so thin that the neck die couldn't constrict it enough to hold a bullet. But that doesn't mean that a neck die won't work correctly. Still...I have retired the neck sizing dies because I felt that accuracy wasn't as good as when I partial resized. And my partial resizing, which didn't bump the shoulder, has evolved to partial FL resizing with the intent to bump the shoulder adequately.

September 3, 2015, 09:16 PM	#19
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Neck sizing isn't evil per se. Especially if you happen to shoot factory ammo out of your bolt rifle, neck size and re-use said brass out of that same rifle a couple of times. Making fairly accurate ammo with a collet die is almost dummy proof. It's possible to make ammo that is just as accurate (if not more so) with a properly adjusted FL die, it just isn't as easy to explain in a book as neck sizing. I'm pretty sure neck sizing gained the popularity it had a few years ago because of Modern Reloading (Lee reloading manual). Richard Lee touted neck sizing only as the method to size cases for the most accurate ammo possible. That's not quite true, but there are kernels of truth to it. It is easier for a novice to make accurate ammo with a collet die than with a FL die. That's why I believe Richard Lee was an advocate of neck sizing only... honestly it's just easier for a novice reloader to make accurate ammo with it and it also is the only method that they could make their hand press work with larger rifle ammo. Since Lee dies and equipment are a little less expensive than most other equipment, it is reasonable to believe that their reloading manual is owned by quite a few folks and influenced thought some. It did mine. I was an advocate of neck sizing, but I've learned that FL sizing certainly has it's place in bolt rifles. I do still neck-size, but I may get away from it. As others have said, you WILL have to full length size eventually anyway. That is, unless you want to stomp on the bolt throw to close the action. Lee makes some good dies for the money. I use them almost exclusively just because I reload on a budget, and I've made extremely accurate ammo with Lee dies. Their reloading manual is informative, but the instructions for setting dies up are a little basic. You can set a full-length die up to make super accurate ammo, but the Lee manual does not cover how to adjust a FL die to a specific rifle chamber. FL sizing does work the brass a little more, but I'm not convinced that you get significantly shorter case life with FL sizing if you size just enough to chamber the round without force. To the OP... virtually any rifle caliber can be neck sized only so long as it is a bolt action rifle and the ammo you are sizing was fired out of that rifle. Your caliber selections for neck sizing only mirror calibers that are exclusively limited to bolt action rifles. The calibers you list for full length sizing are also common calibers for semi-auto rifles, which must be full-length sized. Just a thought.

September 4, 2015, 12:26 AM	#22
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	When I just neck sized, I was impressed with the bullet hold. Granted I was using a 312 bullet in a 311 neck, I have some 311's coming next week, ill keep an eye on the hold. This is the first I have heard of this being a complaint though. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 4, 2015, 02:21 AM	#24
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I use a Redding body die, push the shoulder back and a lee collet die. Runout is typically .001-.002. I use this method for auto loaders and bolts. It works. Well and case life is very good.

September 4, 2015, 08:36 PM	#25
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Disclaimer--I am no sage on reloading. When first starting to load center fire rifle, I started by using the FL die on new cases, and then just neck sizing. (Caliber was 22-250 only at that time.) After a time, some rounds were so long that the bolt was tough---or even impossible--to close. So after a few threads here in TFL, I finally figured out what "bump the shoulder back" actually refers to, and bought a Hornady Headspace Gauge. Away I went, FL sizing all my brass. By this time a 204 Ruger and 222 Remington was added to the armory, and all the rifles were loaded accordingly. All is well, accuracy is good, bolt closes, and case life seems better. Incidence of split necks dropped dramatically for the 222 Rem. So, at that time the process was: used cases are tumbled, inside of the case necks are brushed/lubed, case lube is applied to the body of the case, and then it is run through the FL sizing die. Then the case lube is wiped off the outside, the inside of the case neck is swabbed with Q-tip. Then the cases are measured for length, and if needed trimmed, deburred and chamfered. The primer pocket is brushed. Primer is in stalled. Ready to load. Finally. So after some of that boring and mind numbingly slow process, I wondered if all the brass needs FL sizing every time. It turns out that some does, but some doesn't. When I checked the fired brass before decapping/sizing, using the headspace gauge, 204 Ruger brass does not need to be FL sized. The load currently being used is with 24 gr. NTX bullets, IMR498 at max load, velocity around 4350 fps. For some reason the load must be such that the brass is undergoing absolute zero stretch. I have used some cases I designated specifically for this load 4 times and it shows no discernible stretch. Still within the headspace spec I am using. Saves me quite a bit of time when reloading that caliber. The 222 Remington---no way, has to be FL sized every time. 22-250--that caliber depends---I spend a few minutes and measure each case with the headspace gauge and segregate the cases that can be necksized from the others. You can call neck sizing the lazy man's way. OK---if it works I'll take it. If not, then FL sizing is ok too.