308 Newbie to Reloading

[browninghunter86]

Any suggestions or hints to reload for Savage 10 308 with 1:10 twist rate with 22" barrel. Will be hunting whitetail deer at 25-400yrds

Any advice or help would be great

[Unclenick]

Welcome to the forum.

Take a look at the recipe loads, here. Note that they are all in Winchester cases which is important because Winchester cases have more space inside that most brands, and the powder charges given would be too large in other brands. Also note that the primer make needs to be copied.

[browninghunter86]

good info thanks. What primers are good? Should use benchrest primers or std large rifles?

[mrawesome22]

Pick a powder with good velocity and case fill.

Get the bullet close to the rifling.

Make concentric ammo.

Be anal about case prep and sorting.

Get es and sd as low as possible. When these go down, so does group size.

Basically these are universal rules for accuracy in any rifle.

Oh and only bump the shoulder 2 or 3 thousandths for a nice cozy fit in the chamber.

[browninghunter86]

Powder recommendations beside Varget? Looking for 2650-2750 FPS according to http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...7.62+NATO.html

[Charlie98]

IMR4895 or H4895.... it's been the standard for a long time, with IMR4064 backing them up. Rl15 is supposed to be very good as well.

[Kayser]

+1 for the IMR 4895. It was developed specifically for 30 caliber rifles ages and ages ago. I get outstanding results from it in a rem 700.

[Unclenick]

Some of the information in the site you linked to is a little off, but for bullet selection it is a perfectly good overview. Keep in mind for load development that no matter what bullet you shoot, accurate shot placement is almost always more important to a rapid stop than the terminal ballistics of bullet expansion and shock. Hit the wrong place with the world's best performing bullet for your impact velocity, and you can still wind up spending a lot of time tracking blood. You want, first and foremost, a load that shoots well and that you can shoot well from field positions.

Some funny stuff: I think maybe it was Boots Obermeyer I first read pointing out that some loads that do best from the bench don't do best in field positions. Shifting how your body supports the gun can change the barrel harmonic whip, throwing some of the good bench choices off. So, by all means develop loads on the bench for consistency, but don't neglect to shoot prone sitting, standing, and improvised field support positions to make sure which one is actually your best field choice. You'll probably want to try three different bullets and maybe as many as three different powders to find what suits you, though I've always been able to get IMR4064 and 4895 and Varget to behave in this chambering with 165 grain bullets and up. I've not shot 150's nearly as much, but H4895 does well with it and N140 is good.

Primers bring up some arguments, but since I own an older FP10 (24" barrel), I can attest that mine likes the Federal 210M primer if you pick a stick powder that fills the case well at your most accurate load level. I've also heard good things about the inexpensive KVB7 (Tula and Wolf) Russian primers in this gun, but haven't compared them personally. The common factor is relative mildness. Indeed, if you want to go driving tacks, you might try investing in some Lapua Palma Match cases, which feature small rifle primer pockets. Small primers can be bought milder still; Federal 205M, KVB223 (Tula or Wolf). Use the powder to control the pressure and not the primer.

If you use a powder that doesn't fill the case well, you may find magnum primers produce more consistent velocities. You'll have to determine this by hands-on experiment. Note that loads should be reduced 5% whenever you change primers, then worked back up while watching for pressure signs.

Stick powders are my preference for accuracy loads. I'm not knocking what 748 and 2520 can do in .308, but spherical powders are picker about ignition. I once ran 2520 from my M1A for a season and found the difference between deburring the flash holes in the cases and not doing so was the difference between 1.2 moa and 0.7 moa groups off the bench and in prone. That rifle never cared a whit about flash holes with stick powders, and shot 4895, 4064, and Brigadier 3032 all into 0.7 moa without requiring that extra step. That barrel shot out before I started using Varget or N140, but I expect it would have been the same story.

In hunting the ignition issue gets still more critical because you might be out in low temperatures. That makes powders still harder to light. So, if you are using a mild primer for accuracy, but will take it out in the cold, it makes sense to use a powder that lights as easily as possible. IME, the relatively coarse IMR4064 sticks are a good example of such a powder. Avoid fine sticks and short grain sticks, even though they often meter more accurately.

For a systematic approach to load development, go back to the link to recipes I put in my first post in this thread, and on the left side of the screen click on the Overview button and read through the whole site. Good luck with a new and addicting hobby!

[browninghunter86]

very helpful info again Thanks! Now just trying to decide what bullets to try first go round of loading. 165 SST or 165 Interlock BTSP(almost identical ballistics on paper) not sure 100% which one would be "stronger" if hit bone on deer

[314EPW]

imr4895 and hornady sst the best for me!

[browninghunter86]

Anoyone.. behind Varget which has been recommended alot and is used by alot of reloaders what would be another top powder to try for 165gr 308 SST bullet?

IMR 4064..4895,H4895... even had sales rep recommend N540,140?

[Brian Pfleuger]

The Lyman 49th edition lists Varget as potentially the most accurate powder 2nd most of any, behind only IMR4350.

Hodgdon (the owner of both) lists 11 different .308Win loads using Varget and 0 for IMR4350.

I would suggest that you buy a can of Varget and start loading. Once you've learned the process, and believe me there's a lot you won't EVER learn until you do it, you can worry about what powder might work better than Varget. The important part is to get started.

[BDS-THR]

I use H4895/I4895 for lighter .308 bullets and Varget/RL15 for heavier bullets.

All of these powders will give you accuracy out to 400 yards and beyond.

The Rifleman's Journal is a dedicated benchrest shooting website that I use as a reference and has A LOT of information for reloading accurate .308 loads out to 1000 yards (i.e. Palma Match). Get a big glass/cup of your favorite beverage and enjoy! (I would recommend you start with Reloading/Basics at the link) - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...les-index.html

[Unclenick]

4064 is what Federal used to use in Gold Medal Match under the 168 grain MatchKing (close to your bullet weight). They have since switched to Reloader 15, so either can be made to shoot accurately. The nice thing about 4064 is it is bulky and fills the case, which makes for very even ignition. Its large grain ignition characteristics are a bit more forgiving of temperature variation than many are.

The Vihtavori powders are excellent. The Chandlers recommend them for long range because of their consistency and reliable performance. They burn cleaner than most stick powders because Vihtavuori makes their own raw materials and uses only cotton cellulose in their nitrocellulose. They also fill the case well and will give you a little more velocity than 4064 or Varget at 100% case fill. Only cost and lack of universal availability and lack of inclusion in many load manuals have kept them from being more popular than they are. I've used N140 with excellent results, but often don't recommend it simply because local stores don't routinely have it available. If you have it available, you'd do just fine to choose it for your exploration.

[browninghunter86]

good link. Just currious it states that full length resizing is best for accuracy but according to Lee Precision Collet Die(Neck Sizing) is the most accurate? Any input on that or is it just Lee trying to sell slightly more expensive components?

[BDS-THR]

Full-length vs neck resizing for accuracy has been discussed with no definitive conclusion. Probably best to do both and test out in your rifle.

My guess is not much difference.

I would tend to go more with post resized/trimmed case weight and internal case volume (commercial vs thicker military case) for more consistent chamber pressures (provided you are using consistent powder charges, OAL vs start of rifling, properly seated primers .004" below flush and bullet weight/powder/charge matched to your rifle twist rate).

[mehavey]

For hunting accuracy (and even far better), a standard full-length resizing die adjusted to where the case shoulder is pushed back just enough that the bolt closes w/o significant feel is more than enough. It also serves to lengthen brass life as the case doesn't appreciably stretch upon firing.

If you load to shoot groups 1" or less at 100 yards, you are good to 400 w/ absolutely no problem.
Your biggest error by far at that range will be just that, ...judging range. You're talking a 2-foot drop out at 400

On that note, and assuming both a 165 at high 2700's - 2800fps and a scope centered 1.5" above bore center, my counsel would be to zero absolutely dead-center at 25 yards -- at which you will be effectively point blank ±2½" to 225-250/normal White Tail ranges (espcially in Georgia pines )

[browninghunter86]

so I should use a fireformed empty case to set my die up to for my rifle? Have seen some videos/post stating to do this

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yes.

Lee has some good instructional videos on their site. Well worth watching. Straight from the horses mouth.

[Tomas]

All I use in my .308s is WW748, Varget is my back-up powder.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 748 yet.

tom

[farmerboy]

Varget powder and Hornady 165 gr SST's

[browninghunter86]

49"L by 28"W by 36"H

[browninghunter86]

went to range and 45gr Varget with 165gr SST shot basically in same hole and 46gr was slightly off of same hole. Think I am going to try 45.5gr and 46gr again to see what happens. No pressure signs that I am aware of. Primer looks same as before fired and bolt still easy to open

Here is groups from the range the other day
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=416dfdbcd2

[dmazur]

What's the group size?

3 shots at 100 yds is minimum for group, and some prefer 5.

I'm not seeing the "basically the same hole" group.

[browninghunter86]

well 45 and 46 both had 2 shots "in same hole" and 46 I had 1 pulled shot and 45 had one pulled and the last groups my scope was off I believe(hit good and my wife shot and hit bullseye and then next 3 didnt even hit paper on a 10"target so I tried and no paper either. Cheap scope and rings that came in rifle package. And from the other groups 44 was not that bad for hunting which is what I am loading for. WIll load up 45 and 46 and 44 again to see results possibly