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Old September 20, 2011, 06:40 PM   #76
GreenMachine
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In my opinion, the "performance increase" is trivial. But, I frown upon many AI cartridges. All it really comes down to, are two questions:
Do you want something with a different name on the barrel (.35 Whelen AI)?
Do you want to be shooting a more traditional form of the cartridge, or a modern bastardization?


To be honest neither one of those questions apply.

I was thinking of case life as well as most importantly reliability.

I could care less what others may think when I have the rifle. All I care about again is reliability and what it does on the other end with game.

And to help with reloading since I do not purchase factory ammo if I can help it.
And I also cast so I have a couple of designs for the Whelen. One is a 360-220 and the other is the 358009.
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Old September 20, 2011, 06:50 PM   #77
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New bulk brass get a rough handling during manufacturing , handling , packing , shipping , etc. Midway receives it from the factories in big fibre (45gal) drums.

Don't matter what brand of bulk rifle brass ya buy.
Lengths also vary and case mouths are rarely square.


I always full-length size , trim to .005 under nominal , and chamfer/deburr the mouths before loading virgin brass before the first loading.
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Old September 20, 2011, 08:07 PM   #78
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I have had Remington, Winchester, and yes Hornady Match cases that looked just like that when it came out of the box. I think in the case of Remington and Winchester it may be a shipping/handling issue since they come in those bags. The Hornady Match cases were in a box. Have never had such problems with Lapua, Nosler, or Norma.
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Old September 20, 2011, 11:12 PM   #79
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I was thinking of case life as well as most importantly reliability.
Feeding reliability really depends upon the rifle in question. As we all know... No two rifles are the same.

As for case life -
It's quite debatable, in my opinion. You're going to lose case life, when you blow the body out and shoulder forward, by fire-forming to the AI version. The benefit is reduced brass flow, in the future.

...But I've never found brass flow to be an issue (generally, undetectable) with anything larger than .243 Win.

Since both cartridge can be reloaded with the same methods, from that point on; I don't see any mechanical differences.

But, you do have to stuff more powder (say, 3 to 5 grains) into the AI cases to achieve the same velocity the standard cartridge produces. For shooters interested in boosting velocity, another dosage increase is needed (another 3 to 5 grains).

For the longest case life, I would stick with R-P factory brass, and a standard chamber. I generally get longer case life with R-P brass, than anything else I've ever owned (including premium brands -- my Lapua brass has not been around long enough, yet, and is exempted); and not blowing it out to AI specs will save a couple sizings worth of case life.

For me, it would come down to three concepts:
"How many Nosler cases can I buy with the money it will take to get the barrel rechambered to .35 AI?"
"Will the AI chambering actually provide reliability?"
"How many of my existing cases will be lost when I attempt to fire-form them?"

Everyone has their own opinions. So, I don't expect anyone to agree. But, that's my take on the matter.
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Old September 24, 2011, 06:13 PM   #80
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I've seen creases in the case at the shoulder to body junction or in the body of FACTORY LOADED 375 UltraMag ammunition. And I am talking 4 or more rounds per box. At $90 per box on 60K+ PSI ammo, I find that totally unacceptable. I don't think it's in the handling of bulk reloading components if I am seeing it in their Premier UltraMag line of ammo; I see it more as systemic issue in their plant.
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Old September 24, 2011, 06:25 PM   #81
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I agree with you Franken, about the R p brass, but I have been using once-fired Hornady brass lately with some accuracy and consistancy. I had the brass from previously purchased factory ammo,(that shot pretty good also) so it was handy. Now that I have found the recipe's for my rifles, will purchasing and using Remington brass make any discernable difference in my ballistic achievements with these loads? Feel free to pm me if necessary.
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Old September 25, 2011, 09:17 AM   #82
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Quoting Scortch:
Quote:
C'mon, folks. Brass is produced in a factory on a production machine, saw cut for final length, and then drops into a box. That gets dumped unceremoniously into a tumbler to deburr it. It gets weighed and bagged. If Remington went to the trouble making brass that many of you do, it would cost $5 per cartridge case.

What I do (not right or wrong):
1- Run through the sizer
2- Trim to length
3- Chamfer and deburr
4- Deburr the flash hole
5- Load
6- Fire
Repeat steps 1 through 6 as needed.
+1
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Old March 29, 2013, 05:02 PM   #83
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I just got a box of Nosler brass from Midsouth Shooters Supply, it's 25-06 and it's "top-notch". Comes ready to prime, and I checked every case, very consistant in every way including weight, and dimension,(yes it got old measuring and weighing the cases) but I'm very impressed.
Going to load that little 85 grain B-Tip load, and do some shooting!!
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Old March 29, 2013, 05:08 PM   #84
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And by the way, I recieved a 50 case bag of winchester brass,(7 mm rem mag) for christmas last year, and three of the cases had either split necks or split shoulders, I mailed them back to Winchester, and they were kind enough to send me a twenty dollar Winchester certificate. I wonder if Dairy Queen will let me redeem that dude.!!
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Old March 29, 2013, 08:49 PM   #85
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Norma is worth every penny it costs.
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:28 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
Norma is worth every penny it costs.
Truer words have never been spoken.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:09 AM   #87
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I was looking at the reviews for Winchester .243 brass on Midway and they are rather scary. Midway is out of stock anyway, but the local Scheels had some on the shelf. I know the bag that they ship them in could be an issue with damage during handling causing some of the bad reviews. But the benefit of the clear bag is that you can do a bit of visual inspecting through the plastic.

Since the wife was shopping for workout wear I had plenty of time to look at the 4 bags of .243 that they had in stock. The bags all had cases with minor visible issues, mostly out of round necks. I bought the best looking couple bags and have had no problems with split necks or primer hole size.

Looking at the reviews though you can see that Winchester definitely had some quality issues in the past. Some rate them perfect, some say they are horrible.
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Old March 30, 2013, 11:05 AM   #88
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FrankenMauser
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Posts: 5,345 Why does Remington mock me with their brass?


I do not know.

I do not know how a reloader could let themselves get into a situation where is is necessary to purchase new brass at the beginning of a crises, be prepared, I am exempt from the Politically Correctness of terms, I could be called a hoarder, I could be a sweat equity oriented shopper, I could be ‘just lucky’ lucky by the friends I have cultivated, occasionally I get a phone call, starts something like: I have a friend that has a friend that knows someone that etc., etc.. SO? I get involved, my first commitment, I make sure the person selling understands what it could cost to replace the components with new components etc.. Then they make me an offer, normally I inform them it is not enough, more times than not it comes down to making one offer for all of it with no intentions/interest in peddling the good stuff and giving the rest away.

Then there is that part where they are going to throw in the extras, at a gunshow in Mesquite, TX. I purchases 40 lbs.. of ‘what looked to be junk’ to others was a bargin in the form of ‘DATUMS’ to me, $20.00. I paid for the purchase and started removing all the Lee dies with good intentions of giving them back, the dealer claimed, in a good gesture, he threw in the Lee dies for free, meaning I was not charged for the lee Dies and I could not give them back. Up front, I explained to him I had no interest in carrying the extra weight to the parking lot. One RCB bullet puller with a .30 cal collet made the deal worth the effort.

I know, a good case could be made for my dislike of lee dies, that is not true, it is about Lee die owners, I find it impossible to find a pile of Lee dies that are complete, always as in always and every time I find a Lee die with the ‘O’ ring it has been rendered scrap because of bad habits, the former owner used a chemical that was not compatible with the ‘O’ ring, sound familiar? “I use brake degreaser to clean my dies etc., etc..” I use a towel on a dowel, in the same box were dies form Hollywood Gun Shop, Pacific, RCBS (the old RCBS and Wilson case trimmers and case holders and gages.

Back to forming dies, I have purchased new/never fired cases most described as 30/06 with out the intension of ever firing one in a 30/06 chamber, purchasing 30/06 cases in volume with forming dies meant It was not necessary to purchase in small lots, 243 Winchester, 7mm08, 308 W, 7mm57, 8mm57, 257 Roberts, 8mm06, 338/06, 35 Whelen, 25/06 etc..

Then when I have a problem, I first notify the person I am dealing with, they need to know, twice in my short life I went to see them, both times there was no mistake about what transpired, it had nothing to do with what I thought they said, it had nothing to do with what they thought they said, it was about ‘What they should not have said”.

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Old March 30, 2013, 01:01 PM   #89
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Although I do appreciate the replies to this zombie thread, I think the comments about Norma, Nosler, and Winchester brass would be more beneficial to the posters in dedicated threads.



The resolution(s) for my original issues with the R-P and Hornady brass were described on page 3.
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Old March 30, 2013, 10:09 PM   #90
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I would suspect that store is doing something with the packaging of the brass to appear new. I've used REM brass for 40 years and haven't seen anything like that, especially the off center primer pockets. The bashed case mouths have me suspicious.
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Old March 30, 2013, 10:18 PM   #91
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:48 PM #75
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Just not sure if it would be worth it in the end or not?

An interesting scenario.

Not because of the debate about whether or not it is worthwhile, but because .35 Whelen AI is closer to the original specs, than the modern version.

It all goes back to the .400 Whelen. The original .400 Whelen did not have the body taper that earned it a bad reputation for headspace issues. It was a blown-out case (but did retain the same shoulder angle). When James V. Howe created the .35 Whelen, he did not start with .30-03; he started with the already-blown-out .400 Whelen. So, it was what we might, today, call a .35 Whelen AI.

Somewhere in history, the reloading die companies screwed up. They took .30-06 case dimensions, opened the neck to .40 caliber, and called it .400 Whelen. This is where .400 Whelen went from an obscure wildcat, to a wildcat know for being dangerous to deal with. Without the blown-out body, the cartridge's shoulder was minuscule. Sloppy chambers allowed cases to fall too far into the chamber, or allowed firing pin strikes to drive the cartridge forward. Headspace was not reliably safe, and the cartridge became doomed. ...Because some one, somewhere, wasn't paying attention to the details, when they decided to recreate the cartridge dimensions.

They did the same for .35 Whelen. When Remington adopted .35 Whelen as a standard cartridge, they used the "bastard" version that had been incorrectly (re)created after the cartridge's initial development. The cartridge lost it's minimum taper design, and reverted to .30-06 body specifications. Now, a true .35 Whelen must be created essentially from scratch, as a wildcat (just as it was for 65+ years), but .35 Whelen AI gets you really close... without the extra cost of designing your own reamers for the chamber and die(s).


In my opinion, the "performance increase" is trivial. But, I frown upon many AI cartridges. All it really comes down to, are two questions:
Do you want something with a different name on the barrel (.35 Whelen AI)?
Do you want to be shooting a more traditional form of the cartridge, or a modern bastardization?
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http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm

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Old March 31, 2013, 12:26 PM   #92
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Most of the Ackleys do have much higher velocities than the un-improved version of the Cartridge. Reason being, in absence of good loading data, the handloader pushes the pressure of the Ackley much higher than they would load the Cartridge they have data for. When I had my .375 Ackley magnum built, the smith gave me load data that was for all practical purposes .378 WBY data. Way over pressure! If you loaded the Ackley to those specs, it near duplicated the WBY.
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Old March 31, 2013, 04:31 PM   #93
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How far could that go though, cause more case volume doesn't mean thicker brass for high pressure, and actually, logically it sound like the brass would run thinner in a case with larger volume.
And absence of good load data isn't any excuse for the misgivings of a said cartridge.
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Old March 31, 2013, 08:10 PM   #94
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Over pressure is the reason many squeeze ridiculous velocities out of the Ackleys.
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Old March 31, 2013, 10:45 PM   #95
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Win and Remi brass are about all I've seen lately in decent quantities. They definitely needed some love and I've lost a few cases here and there. I think is them rushing or making short cuts to keep up with demand. I've noticed this in .22 LR ammo as well.
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Old April 1, 2013, 08:51 AM   #96
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