Alcan 7

[Grizzly2]

I have a pound of Dad's Alcan 7 that I'd like to use for my .44 Special with either 190gr cast swc or 215gr cast swc loads in a Charter Arms 3" Bulldog from 1984.

I found one old Alcan manual online, but the last page of pistol loads was not there. I'm hoping someone may have some personal records with recorded loads, maybe from an older lyman or Speer manual.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Craig

[Dufus]

Speer #8 lists the following:

215 gr cast: AL-7 start 11.0 gr @ 1022 fps max AL-7 12.0 gr @ 1082.

Hope this helps you. I too have some AL-7 that I haven't used lately.

Word of caution: some of the older Speer manuals have some warm loads listed. Keep that into consideration.

It says they tested this load in a S&W Model 1950 6 1/2" barrel.
Cases were WW and CCI 300 primers.

[T. O'Heir]

Alcan 7 was discontinued 25-30 years ago. How has it been stored? The can opened?
How's the stuff smell?
Anyway, there's lots of data on Hodgdon's site using up to date powders. Use the 185 or 200 grain cast data.

[RC20]

I have some old powders from that era and still use them (and that same Walker Bulldog!)

I have AL-8 (different burn rate of course)) grey, flakes, no smell or discoloration. $3.97 for the 8 oz can.

Use at your own risk:

AL-7 with a 215 gr Semi Wad cutter at 9 to 10 gr. 871 to 973 FPS. (Speer 1974)

Ref Only: Closest I come for 190 CAST is a 180 gr JACKETED Hollow Point.

13.6 to MAX 15.4. AL7 (Sierra 1971)

This is a quote and confirms correct appearance of the powders were the same. I can send a picture if you want.

The Alcan powders were made in Sweden by Bofors and are distinguished by their square cut flakes. I still have just a little bit of AL-5, but I haven't seen anything else that even comes close to resembling it.

Mine is indeed have Made in Sweden for Alcan. Mfg by Bofors.

[Unclenick]

I have a load in the old Hornady #2 manual (not Alcan; they didn't list it for .44 Special) in which one starting load was already at maximum for my Bulldog. I am therefore suspicious of the old load data, as it was often developed in a production firearm by pressure signs rather than by actual measured pressure in a tight gun. For that reason, I would follow Western Powder's advice for pistol loads, which is to knock maximums down by 15% instead of 10% as is common practice with rifle loads.

[Grizzly2]

Thanks so much. Between those two Speer manuals, the 215gr bullet is covered. 9 grs to 10 grs should be fine for that light Bulldog. The 11 to 12 gr loads, if the powder lasts that long would work if I decide to buy something heavier to shoot it with.

In looking on line and reading many, many comments, it appeared that some believed Blue Dot loads paralleled Alcan 7 pretty closely. But I just was not going to trust that assumption. Looks like they were pretty close though.

The 3rd Edition of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook lists for a 215gr cast, Blue Dot as 9.5 gr - 689 fps - 10,900 cup /// 11.0 gr - 885 fps - 13,400 cup


That 215 gr swc with 4.6 Bullseye shoots one big hole up close.

Now to find a load for the 190 gr SWC, preferably with Bullseye, so I can use up the Alcan 7 with the 215.

[gwpercle]

When I get home after work I'll get you some data for AL-7.
I have several manuals from the Alcan heydays . I used a lot AL-5 in cast bullet handgun loads , it was a decent powder .
I still have two containers of AL-5 and one 1k box of Alcan primers .
My RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 has a good deal of Alcan powder data along with Speer #8.
Gary

[RC20]

Sweet, he is on his way.

I appreciate it, it rang a bell and got me to go look and found my 8 oz of AL-8 (funny, pistol only, you could load maybe 3 shotgun shells..........)

Brings back a lot of memories.

Unclenick: Would it be fair to do some comparisons and do something like 8 to 9 gain of the AL-7 with a 190 gr cast?

Going up I have 8 to 8.7 with a 240 gr cast SWC.

[BBarn]

The powder is over 30 years old. Burn it on the ground, or rake it into the garden. Or sell it to a collector.

As Unclenick said, some of the reloading data from the Alcan era (such as in Hornady Vol. 2) was not pressure tested data. And there is a very real possibility that due to age and storage the powder won't behave the same way as it did when produced.

[gwpercle]

Speer #9 (1974)
44 Special
215 grain cast SWC gas check or plain base
AL-7 powder (Alcan)

Starting load : 9.0 grains @ 871 fps

Maximum load : 10.0 grains @ 973 fps

Hope this helps , this is one reason to keep older manuals...

check the difference with Speer # 8 ...start 11.0 and max 12.0 ..Whooeee!
And to think I used that Speer #8 for developing some wicked 357 magnum loads ... (one was the new 110 grain Super Vel JHP over 10.5 grains of Unique..don't do this one it's a tad warm)

Gary

[Grizzly2]

Thank you all, that is a big help. The 4..6 gr Bullseye Powder load that shot a one hole group with last week with the 215 gr cast, was from the same late 1960's purchase my Dad gave me years ago.

I'm pretty certain the Alcan 7 was meant for 12 guage paper hulls - or maybe the all hard plastic ones he had. I image whats left of the Alcan wads will go when I start cleaning up the benches.

Does anyone have a load for the 190gr cast and Bullseys?

[RC20]

The powder is over 30 years old. Burn it on the ground, or rake it into the garden. Or sell it to a collector.

As Unclenick said, some of the reloading data from the Alcan era (such as in Hornady Vol. 2) was not pressure tested data. And there is a very real possibility that due to age and storage the powder won't behave the same way as it did when produced.

That advice (which was not asked for) was posted already.

I also have can of AL-8 at least that old if not older. Its fine and I will shoot it up.

Its an informed decisions.

Not loads can be throttled back and starts at minimum which we are listing.

[RC20]

It was a popular used as a pistol powder (and yes many shotgun powders worked nicely) that would be why I have a 8 oz can of the AL-8. Today we have more tuned pistol powders.

The 215 though was/is at the to bottom of the load list for 44 special or above. Lowest I have in that caliber is 205 and no B ye listed.

See what Unclenick says, I think you could do it but I don;t have a listed load.

If it was me I would likely start with a couple at 8 gr and see what results were.

Noting that its the high listings that were in question, see what Unvclenick says.

hank you all, that is a big help. The 4..6 gr Bullseye Powder load that shot a one hole group with last week with the 215 gr cast, was from the same late 1960's purchase my Dad gave me years ago.

I'm pretty certain the Alcan 7 was meant for 12 guage paper hulls - or maybe the all hard plastic ones he had. I image whats left of the Alcan wads will go when I start cleaning up the benches.

Does anyone have a load for the 190gr cast and Bullseys?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Even when Alcan 7 was around there wasn't all that much info available for its reloading use. Although I used allot of it years ago for my 12 ga 3" heavy (1-1/2 -&- 1-3/4) Oz goose loadings. ___ Never heard tell of a powder recipe for its use in pistols.

[RC20]

Its listed, I assume AL-8 is back there for pistol magnums. They would not package it in 8 oz unless it was. I remember it well in that form. 8 oz goes a long ways at 8 to 10 grains a pop!

Lots of shotguns powders were used, I have several left.

Unique , Red Dot, Green Dot, PB

[Grizzly2]

1967 Lyman Reloading Handbook. oops. I removed a link that had that themanual on pdf. I think forum rules won't let us do that. I guess it could be shared through a pm?

That should take care of any Bullseye needs.

Thanks for all the help with the Alcan 7.

[Unclenick]

As near as I can tell from various published data, AL-7 was probably a little faster than Blue Dot. The closest velocity data matches I could find in QuickLOAD were for Somchem S221 and ReloadSwiss RS24, which both produce very similar velocities in both 44 Special and 9 mm as compared to data I've found. Unfortunately, because we don't know the energy content and burning characteristics of the AL7 powder, specifically, exactly how similar the peak pressures will be is not very certain. Given the charge weights involved, though, I think you'll find it's pretty low pressure and that the powder burn may even be dirtier than you like because of that. The powders Hodgdon puts up are mostly faster and have smaller charge weights to produce the same velocities, so it isn't too likely to be an issue at the load levels being discussed. I would be very surprised if it made 10,000 psi.

[gwpercle]

The Speer #9 manual has a great deal of data for handguns with AL-5 , AL-7 and AL-8 .
Seems these were used the bigger bore handguns and magnums .
AL-5 is a faster powder and shows up in some of the smaller cartridges.

The Hornady Handbook #II (1973) also has Alcan data that is reliable.

Gary

[Grizzly2]

I like the old bluing on the early 3" Bulldogs and have no intention of loading hot for it. All I really want to do is load some pleasant shooting loads to improve my skills with the easy carrying Bulldog. When I bought it, it came with 5 boxes of factory loads. I have the Underwood 200gr wadcutters for carry and silvertips for the strips. There was a box of 240gr Cowboy loads, 200 gr rnfp loads and some Remington 246 rn that will jump their crimp. I may tighten them up a bit before I shoot them up.

I found the 215 cast with 4.6 or 5.0gr Bullseye has perfect elevation up close. Now if I could just move poi to the right some more I'll be happy. I've noticed that from the bench it shoots 1" left at 5 yards single action but when I fire double action, I pull the shots just enough to the right, that they are centered.

Another thing I noticed is that the Pachmayr Compacs are just wide enough that I have to move my grip a little to the right to get on the trigger at the first crease. I think that may be contributing to my pulling shots right. The older Charter Arms rubber grips that are the same width as the newer factory grips - thin - let me get a proper grip on the revolver. I may be in trouble if I stop pulling shots right with their grips. Then I'm back to fooling with the sights. Customer Service already filed the left side of the front sight a little. (Didn't change much).

I may load up a box just to see what the different grips do and maybe a few with the Alcan 7.

[RC20]

I always was a bit of a target nut, when I got mine I got the Target version.

Its a great keep around gun. One of those you don't want to shoot a lot but darned good for what it is.

[52_and_done]

Grizzly2;

I had my own 44 Charter Bulldog back at about that same time frame, only mine was a 4" model (I think with Adjustable rear sights, my memory fades though). I used to run mine with a 240g LSWC and 7 grains of Unique/standard CCI LP primer. That was a book load (Speer I think) so was safe to use. I remember that the recoil was very pronounced in that light little gun (but that was when I was young and loved the testosterone rush), and after about every 3 cylinders full I had to push all the pins that held the gun together back into the frame with my thumb. Whatever you decide on for a load, I would suggest using a starting load with your chosen bullet, as it would be a lot easier on the gun and your hand, as there just isn't enough weight there to keep top loads from wearing your Charter out way too soon (it's a Great little Gun). Just an FYI to ya. Keep your Powder Dry.

[RC20]

Yea it smacked you even with pretty light loads.

I still have the gun and liked it for what it is though I never shot it a lot. A keep around for carry or convenience in house locaiton as needed.

I forget who coined the term carry a lot and shoot little but that was what it was for.

The funny part was I could shoot it well but not as good as my other revolvers, not big deal. My wife to be and I were out one day and she put 5 though it that beat anything I had ever done with it. Honey, this one is all yours! She was a natural, I had to work at it. I was always happy to give her due kudos if she did better than I did. You never can have too many good people around you.

[Grizzly2]

I loaded 9.5 Alcan 7 and a 215gr swc. It had quite a bark. Just guessing from how it felt, I think it was hotter than the Underwood 200gr wadcutter load I have and that is listed as 1000 fps. Not sure of the barrel length they tested it in.

The Alcan load came from a Speer #9 Manual
215gr cast Alcan7, starting load 9.0 @ 871 fps - max load 10.0 @ 973 fps

I think 9.0 would be more than enough

52 and done, when mine went to the service dept, I mentioned that front pin backing out and they put a re-designed pin in. So far so good. They also added a very thin nylon washer under the screw that holds the cylinder crane on.

I also noticed that I could push the old one in with my thumb also, but when I watched an assembly video, they also smacked it lightly with a punch. When I did that, it seated a bit more.

I'm thinking I'll save this Alcan 7 for my heavier Ruger New Model .45 Colt. It weights almost twice as much.

Thanks for all the help.

[RC20]

Happy to assist where possible, it was a lot of fun to get my old AL8 out, check it, look at loads and stroll down memory lane of a powder no longer made.

[Dufus]

RC20: you don't have the right to post about Mr Guffey any longer.

This thread was about AL-7 and in all but 2 of your posts (8 total), you had AL-8 as the subject.