Hi-Point 10mm Carbine -- I want one....

[Skans]

I've decided that I want a Hi-Point 10mm Carbine as a home-defense gun. Here's why:

1. It's cheap, and if I can find a used one, it's really cheap!. I could keep it stashed, unlocked, in my bedroom, where it can get banged around, dusty etc. I don't like the idea of keeping my more expensive guns anywhere outside of my safe - that's just me.

2. It's more than enough power for home defense, and I like 10mm over .223 or just about any other handgun round for that purpose.

3. I'm never cared for pump shotguns for HD - not my thing, never will be either.

Here's what's holding me back - I don't see that any large capacity magazines are made for it. 10 rounds is not sufficient. 30 rounds would be a minimum for me to get interested. Otherwise, it's a no-go.

Also, I might want to add a quality folding stock. Not a deal-breaker like the magazines, but something I'd want.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Or experience with the Hi-Point 10mm carbine's reliability?

[kozak6]

There are almost no 30+ round magazines in 10mm, at all. There's modified Glock or M3 mags, or MP5/10 mags. That's it. For the Hi Point, you are going to be stuck with factory lo-cap mags.

Got a hacksaw? A folding stock is doable. It used to be fairly fashionable to attach VZ58 folding stocks.

[pblanc]

A thread was recently posted on this subforum by an OP who had just purchased a 10mm Hi-Point carbine. Read it if you have not already.

I do not own a 10mm Hi-Point carbine but I do own the TS995 9mm. With the 10mm you are going to be limited to 10 round single stack magazines. Could you use it for home self-defense? I suppose so but I would never trust my 9mm in that capacity.

The reasons I would not consider it suitable for home defense are the spotty magazines and the awkward controls. From a bolt lock-open position if the charging handle is not pulled absolutely all the way back, it will fail to pick up a round from the magazine. Even if it is, I have had failures to feed with the TS995. I have measured the width of the lips on new magazines and there is significant variation. Rounds tend to nose-dive dramatically in some magazines and not in others. The safety lever is poorly placed and designed, hard to find without looking, and impossible to disengage without shifting your shooting hand position on the pistol grip, unless your thumb is 6 inches long.

You also have to be careful inserting magazines as there seems to be some sort of shelf or lip inside the magazine well that the top of the magazine will catch on if it is not inserted perfectly square.

[Model12Win]

Get a Beretta Cx4 Storm. FAR better home defense pistol caliber carbine.

[ThomasT]

Here's what's holding me back - I don't see that any large capacity magazines are made for it. 10 rounds is not sufficient. 30 rounds would be a minimum for me to get interested. Otherwise, it's a no-go.

People have been defending themselves with 8 shot 45 autos and 6 shot revolvers for over a century and you can't do it with 10 rounds? You really want to pop off 30 rounds in your house?

There was a 13 year old kid a few years ago who had a new Marlin 22 lever action and he was trapped in his house with two burglars who didn't know he was there. He tried to get out out of a bathroom window but didn't make it. He ended up killing both burglars with only 3 rounds of 22LR. Gerald McRainy made a movie about that story. I think you will be fine with 10 rounds and a couple of spare mags in a buttstock holder.

[ttarp]

Cmon, preference for more than 10 rounds is hardly something to malign. High Tower Armory over on the bullpup forums mentioned a vague possibility(probably not) that they would design their own higher capacity magazines to go with their bullpup stocks. I really doubt anything will come of it, but it would be nice. That being said, I'd be plenty happy with 15 rounds, 30 seems a bit over the top for the design.

Get a Beretta Cx4 Storm. FAR better home defense pistol caliber carbine.

And I bet they would sell a lot of 10mm's if they offered them, pricey as they are for what you get, lots of folks seem to like CX4's.

[Model12Win]

Keep in mind a number of U.S. and worldwide law enforcement and military/militia units use the Beretta Cx4 carbines.

Wonder how many use Hi-Points?

OP, save a bit of money and go for the Beretta. They can be had for less money these days and can accept quality factory Beretta 30 round Model 92 magazines. The Cx4s have a hell for stout track record for reliability.

But if you want to trust a pot metal low capacity overpowered bottom of the barrel budget carbine instead, be my guest.

[ttarp]

I think you're missing what is possibly the primary cause of interest, 10mm.

As far as reliability, despite the materials the Hi Point has every bit as good a track record as the CX4, Hi Point really would sell a lot more than they already do if it weren't for the magazines.

I shouldn't be feeding your trolling, but its hard not to sometimes.

[Drm50]

A couple years ago 2 guys I know were going to Alaska on a fly fishing trip. They
were just going to wing it, no guide. Both were retired and fly fishing fanatics.
They had custom built fly rods of $500 bracket made just for this trip. One had
bought a $40K 4w drive pickup for the trip. Why did they come see me? They
wanted to buy bear guns to carry while fishing. When they saw the price of S&W
and Ruger they went nuts. Then they looked through my trade pile. I had a S&W
M10 in good mechanical shape for $300, that was way more than they wanted
to pay for 2 guns. They didn't buy anything and later herd they each bought a
Hi-Point 45acp. I guess if you are only worried about protecting your life you
should buy the cheapest gun you can find. You can always hope the bear or bad
guys are impressed with your other hi class belongings and leave you alone.

[bobn]

the berretta storm is no precision machined piece either. I had one. the hammer is plastic along with other parts. same as hi point just more dough. whether a firearm is used anywhere has as much to do with politics as anything. not ranting just saying. bob

[COSteve]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

Get a Beretta Cx4 Storm. FAR better home defense pistol caliber carbine.

A 10mm carbine won't give you but a couple hundred fps increase over a 10mm pistol with a 5" barrel. I know, I have and handload for my custom 6" Glock G20/21L I developed way back in 2004. While I also have a Hi-Point 40s&w that my son uses, I don't even own a 9mm so I wouldn't recommend the Cx4 Storm either.

Further, at their unreasonably high price, you could get a brand new Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine. I've had one since early 2012 to replace my pristine 1943 NPM GI carbine as it's retired for my son. With over 5K rds through my AO, it's been fantastic. Considerably more accurate than even a never fired GI carbine, it shoots 110grn Speer JSP handloads at 1,950fps.

And with Korean Military 15 and 30rd mags from AIM reasonably priced, it's a great HD weapon. Smaller, lighter, more powerful, higher capacity, and real wood and steel. A much better choice.

[Model12Win]

Tooshay.

[bamaranger]

The interest IS the 10mm cartridge. Unless you want to (read "or can") spend 3-4 times the amount of the Hi Point, for a Just Right Carbine, a Kris or an Aero, you will not find another production 10mm carbine. You can buy a Glock 20, and a Mech Tech kit, and assemble a carbine, but you will still be pushing close a $1000 after both purchases.

Oh yeah, the Hi Point it has its quirks. And their are a multitude of detractors. I worked up the courage to tell a very savvy shooting pal that I bought a Hipoint 10mm carbine. Wish I could have snapped a pic of his look, like he'd stepped in dog poop. We will hear more of that as this thread progresses.

But if your a 10mm fan, own a handgun so chambered, or want a compact, relatively powerful carbine chambered in that cartridge, the Hi Point is an option. Its the ONLY option in 10mm that's affordable to the rank and file. I can shoot mine with the factory sights better at 50 yds, than any 10mm handgun, maybe any handgun these days. So far, with limited shooting, it has run just fine. I have other guns for home defense, I would not take it on the hunt of a lifetime ( I probably will take it deer hunting a bit) , but it is the only 10mm carbine I will probably ever own. That said, who knows what might surface as the other mfg's see the popularity of the HiPoint 10mm?

Critics of the 10mm Auto cartridge note that most production ammo falls well short of the early claims that the 10mm was the equal (or near equal) of the .41 mag. The additional 200+ fps (some folks report more) gained from a carbine barrel bring the 10mm Auto cartridge squarely into .41 mag territory. Yes, firing a .41 from a carbine barrel would boost the revolver cartridge as well, but my point is, we are maximizing the the 10mm Auto cartridge. A .40/180 or .40/200 running somewhere around 1400+ fps (or more) is not to be taken lightly.

My expectations were not great with the HiPoint. If it breaks, I will send it back. If it continues to break, or performance declines to where it is a hassle, I will send it back. If circumstances become intolerable, I will return it again and sell it.

But it hasn't yet, and so far it's a hoot.

[jetinteriorguy]

There ya go. I'm tempted, but since I already have a Just Right Carbine, I'm waiting for them to come out with a caliber conversion kit. Right now you can get kits for 9mm, S&W .40, and .45 ACP. I'm assuming since they do offer a 10mm carbine that a conversion kit will soon be available. The kits are under $300.00 so for me I'll have a gun built like a tank that takes Glock mags and can use any style AR fire control group I'd like.

[wild cat mccane]

IF we are going to make claims that 10mm is equal to 41 mag when chambered in a 10rnd limited carbine...

300 blackout?

[ThomasT]

I have a Hi-Point 9mm sitting in my closet now. I bought it when they first hit the market. I can't say I have shot thousands of rounds through because I have not. But I have shot several hundred rounds with only one failure and that was with a lead bullet reload. The bullet nose dug into the feed ramp. But with FMJ and hollow points it has been perfect. And the 10 round capacity, the thing that bothered the OP has never been an issue for me. I have a spare mag.

I have read that power wise the 10mm falls between a 357 and 41 mag from a handgun. From a rifle maybe the 10mm gets close to a 41 mag from a handgun. But it will never catch a 41 mag from a rifle.

My bud bought a Glock 10mm pistol to wear fishing in Colorado in case he is ever attacked by a bear. He has been going to Colorado most of his life. His dad built a cabin (3 story A-Frame) in Altmont right on the Taylor river. We have fished that river before and no one has ever seen a bear. He has a Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag but felt he needed the capacity of the Glock for bears he has never seen. I think the 6 shot Ruger was a better choice.

I have shot his Glock 10mm and it was nice but didn't strike me as much of a powerhouse like I thought it would be. I wouldn't trade my 44 Blackhawk for one.

[Model12Win]

I agree. I’d rather get a .300 BLK OT.

[turkeestalker]

But if you want to trust a pot metal low capacity overpowered bottom of the barrel budget carbine instead, be my guest.

Pfft, not trying to be an axx but that's a keyboard commando statement if I've ever read one.

I've purchased four Hi-Point carbines through the years.
Not something that I intended to do, just found them at the right deal at the right time.

Kept the first one in 9mm for myself, gave one in .45 to each of my sons and kept the third .45 for myself as well.

I can not recall any of us EVER having experienced ANY feed or function problems of ANY kind, but haters will be haters all the same.

Tough to beat their warranty policy, few better in the business and it's not like these folks owe you anything considering what they're offering at the price point.

Heavy, butt fugly, and yeah kind of awkward controls to some, with limited capacity for some situations, but not for home defense.
Besides, those butt stock mag holders are pretty nifty and help alleviate the issue.

If I found a 10mm Hi-Point carbine at the right price it would be the right time without any hesitation at all, and I'm thinking it would serve well as a bang around the house defensive weapon.

[bamaranger]

I'm a bit lost on the reference to the .300 Black? Aside from the matter that we were discussing the 10mm and the .41mag, I don't get it. A rifle cartridge, derived from another rifle case, found commonly in the AR platform, I don't see the connection in a discussion concerning two handgun cartridges in carbines.

The carbine length barrel optimizes the 10mm Auto. I believe the 9mm, .40 and .45 cannot hold enough powder to take really good advantage of the longer carbine tube, the 10mm Auto and the magnum revolver cartridges can. This seems especially apparent when you drop to lighter 10mm slugs and create more powder space. Some of the velocities obtained with light slugs in 10mm carbines are very high. The comparison to the .41 mag is not speculation. The numbers are there.....the 10mm Auto (from a carbine) matches .41 mag velocities/energies from a handgun, and may well exceed them. I state that to indicate that the 10mm Auto, from a carbine, is no weak sister.

[TruthTellers]

If this is for home defense, I would steer you to .40, not 10mm as the ammo availability is better and good bonded JHP's are stupid cheap thanks to LE use. If it's 30 rd mags you're after, the only place you're going to find them is in Glock mags and the Hi Point doesn't use Glock mags.

Would be really cool if they did, then I would probably buy the 10mm Hi Point. Perhaps if we sign a petition and get a few thousand signatures to ask Hi Point to make carbines that use Glock mags, they will.

So if you want 30 round mags, the carbines that use Glock mags are the Ruger PC in 9mm only, the Kriss, and Kel Tec Sub 2000.

Could also build a .40 S&W AR-15 pistol and put a brace on it. You'd lose some velocity from the shorter barrel, not enough to be noticeable by the person who gets hit with the bullet, but you also make it more handy inside the home.

The Sub 2000 with its 16 inch barrel is still as short as an AR pistol with a 10 inch barrel tho.

[jetinteriorguy]

Umm, my JRC in 9mm uses Glock mags, and they make a version in .40 S&W and 10mm that also uses Glock mags.

[Skans]

With the 10mm you are going to be limited to 10 round single stack magazines. Could you use it for home self-defense?

That's a real problem for a HD gun for me. My Tanfoglio Stock 10mm has 15 round magazines. Even that would be ok. 10 rounds doesn't cut it for me.