Buying Match Grade vs. Making your own

LuckyStrike · July 28, 2009, 10:15 PM

Hey reloaders, I'm wondering what experiences you guys have had making your own name brand

match grade ammo. How does it compare with the stuff from the shelf? Federal Gold, Black Hills... How are your groups?

that type of stuff.

I'm going to be dealing with .308 mostly, maybe .243 in the future.

Thanks!

Hydraulicman · July 28, 2009, 10:31 PM

I hear .308 works well with a lot of powders

I think you'll have good success if you do try

scottys1 · July 28, 2009, 10:52 PM

The only match ammo I have bought is Federal .308 168gr gold medal. It shoots very nicely from my Winchester model 70. This rifle has a lot of freebore but shoots well with magazine length rounds.

With handloads I've been able to improve on accuracy but not by a huge amount. This is with no special case prep and with Lee dies (which I got used) that I later found to give eccentric case mouth dimensions.

Development continues...

freakshow10mm · July 28, 2009, 10:57 PM

Handloads will knock the lights out of factory match loads 99% of the time.

LuckyStrike · July 28, 2009, 11:05 PM

Are there any tips that can help squeeze extra accuracy out of the rounds besides the normal steps of reloading?

I take extra effort to ensure the seating depth and powder charges are as accurate as I can get them, as well as using good components (Sierra 175's along with Varget and RE15). Do fancy micrometer dies and all that other expensive stuff really make a difference?

freakshow10mm · July 28, 2009, 11:15 PM

Yes.

However there are things that are a waste of time. Neck turning should only be done with custom cut chambers. Factory sloppy chambers won't do much if anything. I've never cleaned primer pockets in a rifle, even match loads, and they are always as accurate. I tested a batch of brass that had pockets cleaned versus uncleaned. After 500 shots per type I didn't see any practical or measurable change in groups.

Doodlebugger45 · July 28, 2009, 11:24 PM

It's been kinda funny to watch the guys in my company adjust their attitudes slightly since I started reloading. My partner and I have a small oil company and besides the accountants (no fun at all there), we basically have some scientists, some engineers, and some field hands. I'm a scientist by training (geophysicist) so some of the engineers think I'm kind of persnickety about measurements and stuff that I insist upon in their reports. They had some laughs about it when I started loading for my revolvers, but they all volunteered to "test" some of my first .357 loads (course you couldn't buy any factory ammo for them last winter). Pretty soon they ALL were EAGER to help pay my expenses to load them up some .357 after they shot the first "samples". I was just as eager to hear how different loads worked for their handguns too. Pretty much all the engineers had at least one .357 and they had their ideas about how different options would work even though none of them had ever loaded a round. I let a couple of our pumpers try a few of them and they didn't have suggestions, they just wanted more ammo!

I keep dribbling out a few things for them all to try if I can, but it's not as often anymore it seems since I started loading for my .480 (none of them has that caliber). But now the pressure has been intense in the office for me to start reloading rifle calibers. I've been kind of hesitant to do that because it's different than the revolver cartridges but I finally got prepared and will take the plunge loading up some 7 mm mag since almost all of us have at least one of those rifles. It's kind of nice to have an interested audience wanting to help me buy the stuff, but it kind of gives me the willies to load for someone else too, even on a limited basis. But it's really neat to hear their comments about how great it all shoots, even if I only give them 3-5 rounds at a time.

freakshow10mm · July 28, 2009, 11:29 PM

If you are compensated in any way, be legal and get an 06 FFL, etc.

Doodlebugger45 · July 28, 2009, 11:49 PM

You know I have wondered about that aspect of it. So far it's been more like "chipping into the pot" to help me buy the dies and stuff. More of a sharing thing than compensation. But that is one of the things that kind of bothered me. At some point I have recouped all the costs so I would basically be reloading for other people. The way it's all heading though looks good. Now that they see a scientist can produce good loads for their guns, they figure it can't be all that hard, so some of them are making moves to buy their own equipment. That's good because I can borrow stuff from them! I didn't really like loading for others even if they were friends.

It will be an interesting thing to see though if they follow through and start reloading themselves. Us scientists tend to like to tinker with all the powders, bullets, cases, crimps, etc in search of why certain things work better. I have a hard time loading more than 25 of the exact same load. The engineers don't seem so fascinated with that. They kinda figure that if I have a load that works OK, then it's time to buy a whole bunch of that stuff and start cranking it out as fast as possible.

mongoose33 · July 29, 2009, 08:36 AM

Doodlebugger, be careful here. As others said, being compensated makes you in violation of the law, if they're paying you more than the cost of components.

Further, suppose there's a KaBoom. Unlike the ammo companies, I bet you have no insurance to cover that possibility, which puts you at risk for legal action.

You may be better off to supervise them making their own ammo. This will likely encourage them to get their own stuff, and relieve you of the responsibility for any untoward outcome.

freakshow10mm · July 29, 2009, 08:54 AM

Even pitching in for tooling can be looked at by the ATF as being compensated. Tread lightly. That's all I'm saying about it.

CraigC · July 29, 2009, 09:52 AM

Handloads will always be potentially more accurate. Handloads can be tailored to individual guns. Factory loads, no matter how good, are intended to function in virtually any gun that chambers the cartridge. In other words, a compromise.

LuckyStrike · July 29, 2009, 08:12 PM

One more question guys, what do you think is the ideal muzzle velocity for 175 match kings?

ISP 5353 · July 31, 2009, 02:04 PM

My handloads are much more accurate than factory match. They are tailored for each rifle.

July 28, 2009, 10:15 PM	#1
LuckyStrike Member Join Date: May 5, 2009 Posts: 69	Buying Match Grade vs. Making your own Hey reloaders, I'm wondering what experiences you guys have had making your own name brand match grade ammo. How does it compare with the stuff from the shelf? Federal Gold, Black Hills... How are your groups? that type of stuff. I'm going to be dealing with .308 mostly, maybe .243 in the future. Thanks!

July 28, 2009, 10:31 PM	#2
Hydraulicman Member Join Date: June 11, 2009 Posts: 98	I hear .308 works well with a lot of powders I think you'll have good success if you do try

July 28, 2009, 10:52 PM	#3
scottys1 Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Posts: 316	The only match ammo I have bought is Federal .308 168gr gold medal. It shoots very nicely from my Winchester model 70. This rifle has a lot of freebore but shoots well with magazine length rounds. With handloads I've been able to improve on accuracy but not by a huge amount. This is with no special case prep and with Lee dies (which I got used) that I later found to give eccentric case mouth dimensions. Development continues...

July 28, 2009, 10:57 PM	#4
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Handloads will knock the lights out of factory match loads 99% of the time.

July 28, 2009, 11:05 PM	#5
LuckyStrike Member Join Date: May 5, 2009 Posts: 69	Are there any tips that can help squeeze extra accuracy out of the rounds besides the normal steps of reloading? I take extra effort to ensure the seating depth and powder charges are as accurate as I can get them, as well as using good components (Sierra 175's along with Varget and RE15). Do fancy micrometer dies and all that other expensive stuff really make a difference?

July 28, 2009, 11:15 PM	#6
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Yes. However there are things that are a waste of time. Neck turning should only be done with custom cut chambers. Factory sloppy chambers won't do much if anything. I've never cleaned primer pockets in a rifle, even match loads, and they are always as accurate. I tested a batch of brass that had pockets cleaned versus uncleaned. After 500 shots per type I didn't see any practical or measurable change in groups.

July 28, 2009, 11:24 PM	#7
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	It's been kinda funny to watch the guys in my company adjust their attitudes slightly since I started reloading. My partner and I have a small oil company and besides the accountants (no fun at all there), we basically have some scientists, some engineers, and some field hands. I'm a scientist by training (geophysicist) so some of the engineers think I'm kind of persnickety about measurements and stuff that I insist upon in their reports. They had some laughs about it when I started loading for my revolvers, but they all volunteered to "test" some of my first .357 loads (course you couldn't buy any factory ammo for them last winter). Pretty soon they ALL were EAGER to help pay my expenses to load them up some .357 after they shot the first "samples". I was just as eager to hear how different loads worked for their handguns too. Pretty much all the engineers had at least one .357 and they had their ideas about how different options would work even though none of them had ever loaded a round. I let a couple of our pumpers try a few of them and they didn't have suggestions, they just wanted more ammo! I keep dribbling out a few things for them all to try if I can, but it's not as often anymore it seems since I started loading for my .480 (none of them has that caliber). But now the pressure has been intense in the office for me to start reloading rifle calibers. I've been kind of hesitant to do that because it's different than the revolver cartridges but I finally got prepared and will take the plunge loading up some 7 mm mag since almost all of us have at least one of those rifles. It's kind of nice to have an interested audience wanting to help me buy the stuff, but it kind of gives me the willies to load for someone else too, even on a limited basis. But it's really neat to hear their comments about how great it all shoots, even if I only give them 3-5 rounds at a time.

July 28, 2009, 11:29 PM	#8
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	If you are compensated in any way, be legal and get an 06 FFL, etc.

July 28, 2009, 11:49 PM	#9
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	You know I have wondered about that aspect of it. So far it's been more like "chipping into the pot" to help me buy the dies and stuff. More of a sharing thing than compensation. But that is one of the things that kind of bothered me. At some point I have recouped all the costs so I would basically be reloading for other people. The way it's all heading though looks good. Now that they see a scientist can produce good loads for their guns, they figure it can't be all that hard, so some of them are making moves to buy their own equipment. That's good because I can borrow stuff from them! I didn't really like loading for others even if they were friends. It will be an interesting thing to see though if they follow through and start reloading themselves. Us scientists tend to like to tinker with all the powders, bullets, cases, crimps, etc in search of why certain things work better. I have a hard time loading more than 25 of the exact same load. The engineers don't seem so fascinated with that. They kinda figure that if I have a load that works OK, then it's time to buy a whole bunch of that stuff and start cranking it out as fast as possible.

July 29, 2009, 08:36 AM	#10
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	Doodlebugger, be careful here. As others said, being compensated makes you in violation of the law, if they're paying you more than the cost of components. Further, suppose there's a KaBoom. Unlike the ammo companies, I bet you have no insurance to cover that possibility, which puts you at risk for legal action. You may be better off to supervise them making their own ammo. This will likely encourage them to get their own stuff, and relieve you of the responsibility for any untoward outcome.

July 29, 2009, 08:54 AM	#11
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Even pitching in for tooling can be looked at by the ATF as being compensated. Tread lightly. That's all I'm saying about it.

July 29, 2009, 09:52 AM	#12
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Handloads will always be potentially more accurate. Handloads can be tailored to individual guns. Factory loads, no matter how good, are intended to function in virtually any gun that chambers the cartridge. In other words, a compromise.

July 29, 2009, 08:12 PM	#13
LuckyStrike Member Join Date: May 5, 2009 Posts: 69	One more question guys, what do you think is the ideal muzzle velocity for 175 match kings?

July 31, 2009, 02:04 PM	#14
ISP 5353 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 134	My handloads are much more accurate than factory match. They are tailored for each rifle.