Wet Side of the Force

[hounddawg]

depends on where you buy - here is a site that sell 3 sizes 3/32, 1/8, and 5/32. They also sell separator screens.

https://contenti.com/stainless-steel-shot-balls

https://contenti.com/metal-screen-separating-screens

I am still using the original batch of pins that came with my Franklin, but occasionally think about switching. It only takes me about 5 min to manually separate the pins and inspect the cases with my cat litter pan method so I have not bothered yet. One of these days I probably will. I have noticed over the years that if my .264 cases are sized first the pins do not lodge. My fired brass never gets dirty do I depin and size before cleaning

[RC20]

RC20,

I see the problem in your photo. You got a mouse tumbler rather than a case tumbler.

Dang, I got it all mixed up.

I am now running a slow speed 15 rpm test as well as testing car wash with wax in it.

Mostly curious how many hours it takes on slow speed to avoid annoying the wife.

My home assembled separator, works really good for either the Dry or Pin Media separation.

[hounddawg]

My home assembled separator, works really good for either the Dry or Pin Media separation

I love it !!!! I used a old plastic colander for a couple of years then spotted a spare cat litter pan that has the sifter built in. I separated and checked 90 cases for stuck pins yesterday evening in less than 5 min.

My case dryer is a old stainless dog water pan that I stick in the oven at 200 degrees for 15 or 20 min. And for the super cautious it will not anneal the bases at 200 F even if you left them in there for hours

[RC20]

Yea, the bucket was a former Xmas tree stand, old and beat up, easily replaced with another bucket if needed.

The Calder was a find by my wife, Teflon coated no less, too big holes for her use.

I could dry in the oven but I have the bench space for the dryer and it works out better.

Ran a batch through at slow speed for a few hours, came clean. Sort of a clean up run though, have to do it again with resized completely dirty brass. Having fun testing.

The Auto soap did a nice job, came out a different color but did not need a polish. So far it depends on the soap used.

Have to watch getting test mixed up as what works with one may not work with another.

I dumped that last batch in on top of the already cleaning stuff, not good cleaning, I think the cleaning part had already been done, ergo move to try the slow speed and auto soap.

[RC20]

I ran a test of cleaning a load of 6.5 x 47 with lower RPM.

3 hours at 30 RPM and they came clean.

Next step is to drop that to 20 and see how it does. You do need the right cleaning agents in the mix (or the cases need to be in there when you start)

I added odds and ends to one batch and they did not come clean while the originals did and were.

My take is the cleaning agents get neutralized and then you are just stirring water and the pins. It still cleans but not completely. A bit of residue in the primer pocket and stuff down at the base inside.

[jetinteriorguy]

Personally I don’t use pins, to me they just seem like a hassle. I have the HF dual drum setup, which runs nice and quiet since the drums are rubber. Just a small squirt of Dawn and a tiny amount of Lemishine and an hour tumbling they come out nice and clean. Primer pockets are clean enough, and I have no issue with the inside not being totally shiny. I especially like the necks with some carbon in them so they don’t need lubing. After sizing rifle brass they go back in the tumbler for an hour with just Dawn to remove lube. Then in the oven at 175 for half hour to dry. Then they go in the vibrator with crushed walnut and Nufinish for an hour. Pistol I don’t lube so after they dry in the oven at 175 for half hour they go in the vibrator with crushed walnut and Nufinish for an hour. I like the final shine from the Nufinish and the fact they don’t tarnish with time.

[RC20]

As long as I get the mix of soap and Lemonshine right, I don't have to polish. So that is a plus.

I don't find that the carbon makes things slide easier, the 6.5 does not like it, harder. Seems to be a space aspect where smaller bullet and opening make it tighter.

Full clean will get me a better heat transfer with the Annie Annealer (my brother has tested it). I have to test that still for new timing and how it works. I think the carbon reflects the heat as the timing is shorter with the non Wet/Pin tumbled brass.

Not sure if I can get closer to full anneal or not but there is a difference and my brother is super detail oriented. If he says something like that you can take it to the bank.

I don't think I could prove it, but clean brass is like new brass in how it burns the powder. Carbon is going to have some affect though its entirely possible not enough to be of any impact.

[hounddawg]

if you are missing the carbon just use some Imperial graphite dry lube. I do sometimes and it does make for a smoother feel when seating I have not noticed any difference on paper with or without lube. Maybe if I mixed some lubed with non lubed I might but I have not bothered with that. I just make sure all in a batch are the same

[jetinteriorguy]

Interesting thoughts on the affect the carbon has on annealing timing. I have noticed it takes more force to seat bullets in brass where the inside of the neck is clean, as in new brass compared to once fired brass. I’ve always assumed this was due to the carbon left behind. I’ve also found that working up a load using new brass, then shooting the same load In previously fired brass will change the results just a bit, so I prefer working loads up in previously fired brass.

[Unclenick]

Cabon and other black surfaces have a much higher IR emissivity than polished metal surfaces. This means they can both radiate and absorb infra-red much more readily. This is the reason it can be difficult to get an IR thermometer reading on a clean metal surface where a black one works just fine. (If you buy an IR thermometer, get one that lets you adjust it for the emissivity of the target.) But another factor is a layer of carbon is a thin but real insulator. When I was learning laboratory glass blowing in college, one of the standard tricks to limit stress risers in the glass where a new side tube or other fused addition was put in place was to cut the oxygen off from the torch and use the yellow flame to give the work site a good coating of soot while it was still near the softening point and before setting the piece aside to cool. This prevented cracking before the piece could be placed in the annealing oven.

No question the carbon helps lube bullet insertion. It's a source of inconsistent bullet pull, but it likely prevents cold bonding between the brass and the bullet. In this article, "Froggy" runs a brush around the inside of each case to clean the carbon off, then applies his own neck lube to it. Unfortunately, the article doesn't specify what that lube is and the attempt to commercialize it apparently failed as the link to it no longer brings that product up. However, I've read that it was just graphite in alcohol as Hounddawg suggests, so you can give that approach a try.

Whatever you wind up doing, consistency is the key and you want to be sure you develop your loads in case necks whose surfaces are treated the same way, whether they are new or recycled.

[hounddawg]

Uncle nailed it in my opinion, consistency is the key to everything in this game