Is Hodgdon out of business yet?

[totaldla]

Not trying to be funny.

Hodgdon makes money be relabling powders for US consumption. Since I haven't seen Hodgdon products available for some time, I've got to assume that they are hurting big time.

I see IMR, Accurate and Alliant products - but not Hodgdon.

So is Hodgdon out of business?

[Jim Watson]

They are still there.

1. IMR powders are distributed by Hodgdon.

2. I have seen some Hodgdon rifle powders here, little pistol powder. Although a friend found some CFE Pistol and is using it in lieu of HP38.

[Nick_C_S]

Hodgdon 50BMG is so plentiful, yesterday I think I saw some at the gas station mini-mart

I'm still trying to figure out why they're still making more of that stuff, when everybody is hurting so bad for some "real" powder that they can actually use.

[Nick_C_S]

I was thinking the same thing about Speer - are they out of business?

I haven't seen a new Speer bullet on my LGS shelf in over a year - well over a year, actually.

[MarkGlazer]

How would you like to be in a business where you sell 100% of what you manufacturer within minutes of it hitting the shelves? Yeah, they're in business and they will be for a long time to come. I just wish I owned stock in the company.

I was at my local gun shop a few weeks ago and while the powder pickings were slim, they had a full shelf of Longshot. I've seen Titegroup come and go within minutes at Natchez this past week, same with a few other providers. Yeah, I watch Gunbot constantly, seeing how the market is flowing. Personally, I'm waiting for Ramshot to release True Blue and Silhouette, should be in a few weeks, I hope. They are running behind production right now, not a surprise.

I realize you're not being cynical, but you have to understand the market. The plants are running at full capacity to meet military and civilian needs. Some of the companies are going to invest in machinery and I suspect some are not, can not or won't spend the capital. Ramshot has Q&A on their web site addressing the situation they face, not sure Hodgon does. New loaders such as myself (1 1/2 years now) joined your ranks for a variety of reasons. We've helped to make the supply situation worse than it already was. Patience is the key. Find providers that allow you to back order and stretch your supplies. I've learned a great deal from the people on this board, most important is maintaining at least a years' worth of powder and primer.

Good luck.

[Clark]

H4350 has been hard to find for a year.
But a month ago I got 8# for $215.

[Deja vu]

I was looking for some more 300MP all around boise/nampa area and found none I did how ever but 3LBS of H110.

Its a shame I like H110 but after buying a pound of the 300mp I really like it and wanted to switch to it. May be some day...

[tahunua001]

hodgdon is IMR and winchester... the three most common brands of powder that data is published for, why on earth would they be gone?

[skizzums]

Yeah, I would have to say they fact you can't find any, even though they have increased production, means they are probably doing pretty well. Hodges is the only powder I have available here, and some IMRs

[mnoirot64]

I have found CFE Pistol and Winchester Auto Comp lately - so they're definitely still in business.

I have heard that the powder will start arriving in more quantity by late this month. That was from a representative at Alliant.

[totaldla]

If the issue really is that Hodgdon is selling out within hours of a shipment, then why aren't they raising their prices?

I appreciate your responses but I'm not understanding why a business wouldn't raise their prices to maximize their profits. Gougers do that, so why wouldn't Hodgdon raise it's price to retailers and cut out the gougers?

My point is that the basic supply and demand isn't making sense. I suspect that Hodgdon is being screwed-over by

1. Very Limited Supply
2. Locked in pricing on delivery contracts

[MightyMO1911]

Yep. Theyre alive and well. They're manufacturing, shipping and selling powder at all time record levels. And the demand is growing making it all the more difficult to keep up. Keep in mind also that when they switch to a different powder run, say IMR4064 to HP38 (or from whatever to whatever) there is downtime to switch everything over. Downtime means powder isn't being produced. So. They stick with 1 run longer than they likely normally would. 223 powder is beginning to become more prevalent it seems so my suspicion is that's the powder they've been focused on.

The above is mostly speculation but the short of it is yes. They, and all other manufacturers, are working and producing as much as they can.

[totaldla]

MightMo1911 - Hodgdon doesn't manufacturer anything that I know of.

[MightyMO1911]

They HAVE raised prices. They have to in order to pay for the overtime. And. Legitimate manufacturers and gougers aren't the same thing. They arent even in the same class. Juxtaposing the 2 is like putting an elevator in an outhouse.

I'm sensing a "conspiracy" theory floating around that just hasn't been mentioned yet. Basic supply and demand makes perfect sense. There are many many more reloaders among our ranks and many many more shooters among our ranks burning much more ammo. Then we have the hoarders who buy all of everything they see when they see it and there is also panic buying. We have our fearless leader to thank for that. Supply simply cannot keep up with demand.

Keeping with the out of business theory every 22 LR manufacturer must be out of business as well. I haven't seen any of that on a shelf in Well over a year. Sierra bullets must be out of business or at the very least not making many of their bullets anymore.

The point is. Supply is low all across the board. It's just in the last few months I've started seeing any real supply of loaded ammo on shelves. It'll come around. It's just going to take time.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Doesn't really matter exactly what their status is. They are the company "behind" IMR, Winchester and Hodgdon powders and they sell essentially every last bottle as fast as it can hit the shelves. I don't know what their financial status is but if I had to guess, it'd be closer "highest profits in company history" rather than "out of business".

[Nick_C_S]

I think for a lot of us - me, to be certain - patience is being displaced by frustration at this point.

As I read this post/string, it somehow reminds me that we just have to be patient. It's outside our control, and patience is much less mentally taxing than frustration.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by MightyMO1911

They HAVE raised prices. They have to in order to pay for the overtime. And. Legitimate manufacturers and gougers aren't the same thing. They arent even in the same class. Juxtaposing the 2 is like putting an elevator in an outhouse.

No they haven't. Please at least scan gunbot before posting. Prices aren't rising anywhere's near what a typical supply versus demand cycle would suggest.

Originally Posted by MightyMO1911

They're manufacturing, shipping and selling powder at all time record levels.

Hmmmm, where did you get that information? Please show me where they are shipping more pounds of powder. I'd really like to see that information. The only thing I've seen is Hodgdon's website claims - but no data.

[Real Gun]

Again, where did we think the supplies for the bazillion rounds for government agencies was going to come from? Why do we think it was ordered in such quantities? And woe to the brand that imports their powders, only to see them effectively impounded/stalled at port of entry. Lastly, why do we shout down and bully these theories?

[kilimanjaro]

Seems to be plenty of Hogdon powder around here, lately.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by totaldla

The only thing I've seen is Hodgdon's website claims - but no data.

Realistically, the data could only come from them so if you don't find what they post on their site to be trustworthy, why would the "data" be trustworthy?

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

Doesn't really matter exactly what their status is. They are the company "behind" IMR, Winchester and Hodgdon powders and they sell essentially every last bottle as fast as it can hit the shelves. I don't know what their financial status is but if I had to guess, it'd be closer "highest profits in company history" rather than "out of business".

Here's what I think: IMR powders are manufactured by somebody who really is producing a lot of powder and importing it without problem to the US. Hodgdon is making IMR rifle powders appear on shelves. Winchester is manufactured in relatively tiny amounts, (for whatever reason), which explains why we don't see it on the shelves. Hodgdon is mostly manufactured in Australia, and for whatever reason, it is in very short supply. Not just selling fast, but very little of it making it to the major distributors in the first place. So something has choked the Australian supply.

Hodgdon would be absolute morons to not raise prices in the face of such huge demand. So I suspect that they are being constrained by existing delivery contracts for which they are struggling to fulfill. If they could magically get out of these contracts, they would let prices rise until they stabilized at some new point.

I think something similar is happening with 22lr. CCI, Remington, Federal, etc. don't have big margins on 22lr ammo, so they don't run 24x7 shifts making the stuff (they make more money on other ammo). Notice that we have lots of 9mm ammo on the shelf now at $20/50 (the pre-scare Walmart norm was $10/50). The 22lr ammo they are delivering is to fulfill existing contracts and when those are filled, prices will rise.

[MightyMO1911]

There is one other point I forgot to mention earlier. Hodgdon has a plant. Man. I think it's in New Zealand. But at any rate with new changes in export laws they are only allowed to ship out 1 container of powder per vessel as opposed to the 2 containers they've been shipping per vessel in the past.

I'm not trying to be argumentative so I hope I'm not coming across that way. But powder prices are higher. I don't pay what I used to for powder even 2 years ago. It's on average roughly 2 dollars a pound higher, and in some cases a little more. The point I will concede is I have no idea what each dealer is paying per pound and I guess I would have to also concede that perhaps that dollar figure hasn't changed. But it makes absolutely no sense that it hasn't.

The information I have posted has come from reputable writers from reputable magazines. If they were lies there would be slander lawsuits and all kinds of trouble. So therefore I cannot see how what they're printing isn't true. Unless they're printing lies from the manufacturer themself and that positively makes no sense.

Shortages caused from supply and demand is nothing new in our country. But the beauty of it is our free market system always works itself out. Just not as quickly sometimes as we would like.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I think something similar is happening with 22lr. CCI, Remington, Federal, etc. don't have big margins on 22lr ammo, so they don't run 24x7 shifts making the stuff (they make more money on other ammo).

Except that production of 22 ammo is completely unrelated to production of other ammo. They don't use the same machines, components (brass, primers, primer compound, or bullets) or employees.

Just like the powder companies, the ammo companies have told us that they are operating at 100% capacity, 24/7/365.

There is no giant conspiracy, price fixing or artificial market destabilization.

WE are the problem. It's called a panic. It's not new, it's not even rare, and it's the same cause that it always has... us.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

There is no giant conspiracy, price fixing or artificial market destabilization.

WE are the problem. It's called a panic. It's not new, it's not even rare, and it's the same cause that it always has... us.

I agree - there's no conspiracy. And I never, ever suggested that there was. There's no price fixing either. And I don't know what you mean by "artificial market destabilization", so I can't comment.

But there is a huge disconnect between demand, supply and price. I can't think of any other product, (whether it be toilet paper or automobiles), that has behaved this way economically. That is why I brought up my theory about Hodgdon being stuck with existing delivery contracts. Long-term delivery contracts are a wonderful thing to ensure stability through small market ups and downs. But they can really kill your opportunity to capitalize on a big market uptick.

Panic buying is only a problem right now because, (given the demand), prices are too low. There is always a price threshold at which panic buying will subside for non-essential goods and services. Case in point - there is powder available at the gougers - nobody seems to be panic buying at their prices.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger

Except that production of 22 ammo is completely unrelated to production of other ammo. They don't use the same machines, components (brass, primers, primer compound, or bullets) or employees.

Yea, I've only seen a production video by CCI - kindof cool. I have no idea where CCI, Federal, etc directs their staff, but since these are all "for profit" businesses, the CEOs would get fired if they left money on the table. My point is that they put their staff where they make the most money. If they aren't raising their prices on 22lr in the face of huge demand, then there must be a reason - and I'm a bit skeptical that its altruism.

I'm still seeing bricks selling for 4.5 cents a round (Rem Thunderbolt $23.50/500 at Sportsmans warehouse) which are gobbled up and resold by gougers for 12/cents a round (according to gunbot and my local Sportsmans). This sort of out of whack pricing suggests that the manufacturers aren't able to raise their prices and the only mechanism outside of altruism is contracts.