Henry Survey

[Cheapshooter]

I also got the poll, and answered.
Colt Lightning pump carbine copy in 44-40.

[Roaddog]

The gate along with the tube would add to the price.

[JWT]

Loading gate is the one thing they need most to make it a more appealing gun.

[PatientWolf]

Roaddog:

They didn’t say what would you like that wouldn’t add any cost. I am very confident that a gate with a tube could be done for less than $10 over the cost of a gate alone. The number and type of parts for a tube, feed spring and end piece are similar enough that the cost difference for them should be negligible; especially since they already are tooled to produce the tube feeding configuration.

It’d be worth the extra $10 to me, but that’s just my opinion.

[Cheapshooter]

I am very confident that a gate with a tube could be done for less than $10 over the cost of a gate alone.

Not making sense. What would the gate be for if thete isn't a tube? Which they already have.
To redesign, retool, and do tje extra machining to add a gate you need to add another zero to your estimated cost increase. If it can be done that cheaply.

[PatientWolf]

Cheapshooter-

Maybe I wasn't clear. Maybe my terminology is not accurate.

For a gate feed with a blind tube, Henry would need the same basic components for the magazine as for they would a tube feed: tube, plunger, spring, and end cap.

Supposedly, Henry is already working on a gate feeding model because some people prefer that.

What I am suggesting, is that if the offer a gate feeding model, they use the same components that they use today for the magazine, giving the option for tube feeding (or clearing) by the same method as they do it today.

This would allow the user to feed by gate if they prefer or tube if they prefer.

The tube would be the same size in either case: essentially a wash
The plunger would be slightly different probably in a tube feed vs a gate feed, but the cost difference would be minor: let's say $2 price difference in the part.
The spring would be the same: no cost difference.
The end piece for the magazine tube would be the same one they use today, but since it isn't just a plug, let's say that the cost difference would be $8, which I think would be a lot based on the number they produce.

EDIT: I forgot about the inner sleeve that is needed for tube feeding systems and not needed on a blind magazine. Maybe that would add another $5-$10.

Not everyone prefers a gate feed and not everyone prefers a tube feed, but the option to chose whenever I am shooting would be nice.

[Roaddog]

It would be nice to have a choice but to have them both no the same rifle, not so much.I still think cost would be more than 10.00$.Just my thoughts.

[PatientWolf]

I did bump my estimate up to $20 due to the inner sleeve. I can't say what additional mark-up a manufacturer would choose to charge, but I have been in manufacturing for nearly 30 years and am certain that the $20 would be above their incremental cost OVER the cost for a rifle wth a loading gate and blind tube magazine.

[bamaranger]

What twist rate does Henry put in their .44 rifles? If it is like many of the other .44 levers, it's 1-38, way to slow for the heavy bullets offered today. So a Henry .44 mag lever with a 1-20 twist. ANd their centerfire levers need to go on a diet.

Next, some type of quality single shot, down the lines of the Ruger No1 and No3, or the old Win Win High and Lo walls.

Finally, I'd like to see some type of new, higher performance rimmed cartridge for levers and single shots. A necked down .44 or .40, based on the .480 or .500 case? Maybe a long .40, based on the .444 Marlin? A .44 based on the .45-70?

[Cheapshooter]

PatientWolf maybe it's me misunderstanding what you mean by a "gate". Are you referring to a spring loaded gate fitted in an opening in the frame like a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336?
That is what I mean by a redesign, and additional machining, and you're not going to get that for ten or twenty bucks.

[3Crows]

I see no point to retaining tube feed loading if there is added a proper loading gate. Why and to what purpose? Kind of like a belt and suspenders, geezz, just pick one or the other and be on with it.

[CLYA]

I agree with the removal of tube feed, if a gate is installed. It's just more weight, and a fatter tube.

[PatientWolf]

Cheapshooter - I think we are saying the same thing from two different angles.

The rumor is that Henry will be adding the spring loaded gate (like a Winchester, Marlin, Rossi, etc...).

What I am saying is that once that is added and the cost of the rifle is adjusted for that, keeping the tube loading capability vs. switching to a blind tube magazine should only push the price another $20 beyond the price already adjusted for the frame gate.

3Crows and CLYA - I agree not everyone would like that capability / option, but I would be interested. I had not thought about the weight issue, though.

BTW, I like the "belt and suspenders" reference.

[223 shooter]

I only have one issue with both my Henry's, better quality finish on the barrels. For the money they should be nice and smooth with a nice deep blueing

Yeah that includes the magazine tube as well. My 2008 Marlin is far nicer in regards to a nice smooth blued surfaces. The barrel finish on my Big Boy Silver is pretty good but the tube underneath looks like it belongs on some low budget rifle.

I can do without the gaudy barrel band on the Big Boy Brass/Silver as well , an end cap would look far better.

As to the lack of loading gate I would be pleased if the tube of my Henry would come out with needing every bit of strength I have to press down and turn it. It is at henry now for that and some copper fouling issues.

[ThomasT]

What twist rate does Henry put in their .44 rifles? If it is like many of the other .44 levers, it's 1-38, way to slow for the heavy bullets offered today. So a Henry .44 mag lever with a 1-20 twist. ANd their centerfire levers need to go on a diet.

All you have to do is check the website. They show the 44 mag with a 1/20 twist already.

My wish would be for Henry to make a single shot rifle in 357 magnum. I have already called them long ago when the single shots first appeared and asked about a SS 357. I was told no they weren't going to make one. Maybe if I hound them a little they will make one just for me.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by DPris

Shane,
Gotta take major issue with your statement.

The CEO is the owner, and there isn't a nicer or harder working & more committed guy at the top of any major gunmaker in the industry.
He knows exactly what customer service is, and Henry's is among the best you'll find anywhere.

A group buy is not what customer service means to most of us.

How is a group buy NOT customer service? How is it not customer service for a company to offer group buys with custom work done to commemorate your company? How is it NOT considered a customer service issue to claim to offer these...SERVICES...and proceed to continually give our rep at Sportsmans Warehouse the run-around for MONTHS when he made sure all the parameters were met in order for Henry to follow through with the order?

You know, you're right. It isn't considered "customer service" if we received NO service at all.

I don't care how nice or hard working a CEO is. His company is only as good as his employees, NOT him. His employees that are responsible for following through with a SERVICE that was promised to us, the CUSTOMER, dropped the perverbial bowling ball through the 23rd floor and landed in the basement garage.

So, I stand by my statement. What do I want from Henry? I want them to clean house or sell the business to someone that's a successful business person with venture capital.

[Cheapshooter]

OK. I was thinking you thought a change from the removable tube to a loading gate in the frame would only increase the cost by ten or twenty dollars. I really don't see the reason to have hoth though.

[CLYA]

How is a group buy NOT customer service? How is it not customer service for a company to offer group buys with custom work done to commemorate your company? How is it NOT considered a customer service issue to claim to offer these...SERVICES...and proceed to continually give our rep at Sportsmans Warehouse the run-around for MONTHS when he made sure all the parameters were met in order for Henry to follow through with the order?

You know, you're right. It isn't considered "customer service" if we received NO service at all.

I don't care how nice or hard working a CEO is. His company is only as good as his employees, NOT him. His employees that are responsible for following through with a SERVICE that was promised to us, the CUSTOMER, dropped the perverbial bowling ball through the 23rd floor and landed in the basement garage.

So, I stand by my statement. What do I want from Henry? I want them to clean house or sell the business to someone that's a successful business person with venture capital.

I haven't heard anything about the other side of the story. Group buy? Expectations of a real low price? I don't know, haven't got the information.


In the meantime, Henry certainly gets a lot of points across the internet, for exceptional customer service. One just has to read, to be aware of this. Seems totally the opposite of a failing business who needs to clean house.
__________________

[Chettt]

I would like someone to build a rifle with interchangeable barrels for all the handgun cartridges. A handirifle single shot for .25 .32 .380 9mm 40 .45 etc. I think there are many people with small concealed carry pistols that would like rifle reach for small game and varmint control.

[Jacket67]

They could give the best of both worlds and keep the tube loading feature and just add a side loading gate, now that would be the smart move.

Just seeing this as of 9/10/2019 and laughing at how perfect your comment was. I wonder if Henry saw this before adding this to their lineup!

[stagpanther]

My big boy 22" octagonal barrel 45-70 is the best Henry I've ever had--though the metal buttplate gonna bite you after a while. I could see why a side gate would be nice, but I can live without it.

My fantasy lever gun would be something between 44 mag and the 45-70 and still straight-walled enabling tubular magazine use--and a semi-carbine breakdown, no longer than 18" barrel. Have always wanted a good lever breakdown, come close to buying a blr breakdown but they just aren't quite what I want.

PS--forgive me for I have sinned, for a moment I confused my Henry with my Rossis

[allenomics]

Super premium lever .22LR, with old school case hardening (steel) and ultra-quality, low gloss black walnut wood.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Make a revolver. I think Henry is planning on doing this sometime in the next few years anyway, but it's something I'd like to see them do. Don't just make an SAA clone, it won't compete with Colt, Uberti, and the Rugers on the market anyway. No, I think it's high time somebody made reproductions of the Merwin-Hulbert.

The Merwin-Hulbert design is very modular, barrels can be changed out easily, cylinders too. Offer two or three different frame sizes, make them in .22, .327, .357, .44, and .45, offer lots of barrel lengths with options of either the classic fixed front sight or removable front sights, and make them in SA, DAO, and DA/SA.

Did somebody say Merwin Hulbert? By the way, it is not Merwin-Hulbert, it is Merwin Hulbert. No dash.

Good luck with that. I can tell you from experience that the myth of the Merwin Hulbert has been exaggerated by Art Phelps in his book The Story of Merwin Hulbert & Co. Phelps wrote the definitive book, claiming the MH was the most advanced and precise revolver made in the 19th Century. Nobody else has written an in depth book about the MH, so everything Phelps wrote is taken as gospel.

First off, Phelps never mentions that you cannot load a MH with the cylinder open. It must be reloaded with the cylinder closed, through a loading gate, no different than a Colt.

Unloading is accomplished by pushing the latch under the frame backwards, rotating the barrel 90 degrees, then pulling the barrel and cylinder forward.






The cartridge rims are retained by a ring in the frame, and when you open the gun, the empties should all fall out. I can tell you, they don't always all fall out, some usually have to be flicked out.






But what Phelps never mentions is that is impossible to load the gun while it is open. The retaining ring in the frame prevents the rims from seating. So a MH MUST be reloaded one round at a time through a loading gate, not much different than a Colt SAA.






In contrast, a Smith and Wesson Top Break was much quicker to empty and reload than a Merwin. lift the latch, rotate the barrel down and the empties pop out. Then reload while the gun is open, snap it shut and you are ready to go.






As for the myth that the Merwins were the most precise revolver made in the 19th Century, also untrue. S&W could easily have tooled up and made a mechanism that worked similar to the MH if they had wanted to. It was not that difficult. However S&W had no need to because they held the patents that made a Top Break revolver possible. Merwin Hulbert had to come up with their unusual system because Smith's patents prevented them from making a Top Break revolver at the time.


Making a modern version of the Merwin Hulbert would not be as big a deal as some think. Modern 3D Cad and CNC milling techniques could easily make it possible. The problem with the start up that tried to produce a Merwin Hulbert replica a few years ago was they were underfunded. They ran out of money. The problems were not technical.

Don't get me wrong. Shooting a Merwin Hulberrt with Black Powder is great fun. But the myth about them exceeds what they really were.






And, once the drawbacks of the design became known, demand would go down.

[Hawg]

Sometime around 08 or 09 somebody was going to make reproductions of Merwin Hulberts and took in a lot of money on pre orders. It didn't work out and the company went into bankruptcy.

[Driftwood Johnson]

That's the company I was talking about.

They were using state of the art 3D CAD and CNC machinery to make up a few parts. They did not make a completed revolver. They showed the parts at one of the big national gunshows.

Yes, they took a lot of money in pre-orders, and then went belly up because they still did not have enough money to complete the project.

Eventually, another company bought what was left, and reimbursed all those who had sent in money.

As I said before, making a modern replica of the Merwin Hulbert would not be impossible, using state of the art 3D CAD and CNC machining. The design was not all that complicated. In fact, the lockwork of a single action Merwin Hulbert was almost exactly the same as a S&W #3 Top Break.

Here is the lockwork of a Merwin Hulbert.






Notice the similarity to the lockwork of a SW New Model Number Three. Notice too that the S&W lockwork is finer and better made. So much for the much vaunted 'precision' of the MH design.






Nothing particularly complicated about making a modern replica of a MH, the rotational feature of the barrel and cylinder could be done with clever fixturing, as I'm sure the original MH used.


It is simply a matter of demand.

And, like I said before, once everybody realized how inefficient they were to reload, I'm betting demand would go down.