Primer not firing

geronimo13 · May 12, 2006, 02:07 AM

After about 100 reloads shot, 3 didn't fire although the firing pin dimple was there. I'm thinking lube got the primers wet? Anything else to look for? thanks
Oh ... cci small rifle #400 primers.

Yuriens · May 12, 2006, 05:52 AM

did you try refiring them? A primer not seated far enough might fire on the second try. Otherwise something got on the primers or manufacturing issue.

Mike

BIGRED · May 12, 2006, 07:55 AM

That is the #1 reason i stopped using CCI primers. I have never seen this issue since i switched to Winchester primers.

Lycanthrope · May 12, 2006, 08:11 AM

Getting lube in a primer can trash it. I've loaded over 4000 CCI 400's since the beginning of 2006 and they all light with a reduced (19lb) hammer spring in my 1911's. Since they are small rifle primers, however, they are made to be a bit harder and won't reliably light if you seat them high.

Leftoverdj · May 12, 2006, 08:32 AM

Primer not fully seated is the most common cause.

Kelly J · May 12, 2006, 10:29 AM

A friend of mine had a S&W 610 that did a simular trick on him and drove him crazy, he found out that after taking it to the gunsmith the main spring had loosened up to the point that it was not getting a reliable delivery to the firing process, not saying that is YOUR problem but if the primers are not killed as mentioned you might check the firing pin spring for proper tension.

In this case the primers were all dimpled by the firing pin but the round did not fire even after trying the secong time, when I put the round in my gun it did fire, that is when he took it to the gunsmith.

30Cal · May 12, 2006, 10:47 AM

Excessive FL resizing will also cause light primer strikes.

Superhornet · May 12, 2006, 11:07 AM

Only if you size incorrectly and set the shoulder back to change the headspace.......not with a rimmed case, not with a straight wall pistol or rifle case. Only with a bottle neck case. Not if you headspace on the belt of a mag.......

hoghunting · May 12, 2006, 11:44 AM

Try firing them again. I also think the primers were not seated all the way. If that is not it, you might want to take the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning as it might have dried grease and dirt slowing down the firing pin.

Leftoverdj · May 12, 2006, 12:13 PM

It's very possible for a firing pin strike to crush the primer pellet without detonating it. When this happens, subsequent strikes cannot detonate it.

BIGRED · May 12, 2006, 12:39 PM

so explain how i can load CCI's and have this issue, then change to all Win primers and never see it again. I do not believe it is from incorrect seating depth. I believe it is a quality issue. alot of people have had issues with CCI's.

Ifishsum · May 12, 2006, 02:45 PM

Nobody likes to think that something is wrong with their technique or their weapon - they'd rather fault the components. I've loaded well over 5000 rounds with CCI primers without a single misfire in 9 pistols and rifles I handload for, but my brother's GP100 has misfires with them. Does that mean there's an issue with CCI primers or with his pistol? (my Taurus will almost always light them off afterwards)

A possible explanation - it's popular notion that CCI primers use slightly thicker metal cups, and one I generally agree with. If any of the previously stated faults (seated incorrectly, weak spring, gunked up FP) are starting to show up, I think you'll notice it first with CCI primers. If so, switching primers may only be a temporary fix to a larger problem. At the very least it's worth investigating before the blame is placed on the primer. Just my .02...

Donaldo · May 12, 2006, 02:53 PM

I haven't loaded umpteen thousand CCI primers, but of the approximately 500 CCI-200's I've loaded for my Yugo M24/47 and Swiss K31 I've never had a misfire.

Then again, I don't use liquid lube either. I use Hornady one shot. Works great, dries quick (leaves film of lubricant), doesn't foul primers.

geronimo13 · May 12, 2006, 07:07 PM

Thanks all. I did reshoot the 3 at the end of the day and no boom. I took the firing pin out at the range and looked at it and it seemed ok. This is in a Keltec su 16 autoloader and I used veg. oil to lube cases and didn't clean primer pockets. I don't think lube would have got in there though. I don't have any misfires (556) with the mil surplus which has thicker(?) primers. There is no spring on the firing pin. If the primers aren't seated at least flush (i can't feel them being high) I don't shoot them. The excessive resizing allows the cartrige to move forward in chamber makeing the firing pin come up short?

Tim R · May 12, 2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

so explain how i can load CCI's and have this issue, then change to all Win primers and never see it again. I do not believe it is from incorrect seating depth. I believe it is a quality issue. alot of people have had issues with CCI's.

I use everything but Winchester primers depending on what I'm loading. I've used a ton of CCI's in LR, LP and SP and have found them to always fire. For small Rifle I like to use Rem 71/2's. For my wheel guns I use Federal's.

The reason I don't use Winchester primers is because my favorite hunting load group opened up to over 1 1/2 inches from sub MOA and their SR primers pierce too easy with the load I'm using on the AR as does Federal GM SR primers.

Winchester Primers are great if using ball type powders.

30Cal · May 13, 2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

The excessive resizing allows the cartrige to move forward in chamber makeing the firing pin come up short?

It can, yes. You've basically created excessive headspace if that's the case. If you haven't checked your sized cases lately with a case gage, I'd highly recommend it.

May 12, 2006, 10:29 AM	#6
Kelly J Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2006 Location: Blue Springs, MO Posts: 383	Geronimo13 A friend of mine had a S&W 610 that did a simular trick on him and drove him crazy, he found out that after taking it to the gunsmith the main spring had loosened up to the point that it was not getting a reliable delivery to the firing process, not saying that is YOUR problem but if the primers are not killed as mentioned you might check the firing pin spring for proper tension. In this case the primers were all dimpled by the firing pin but the round did not fire even after trying the secong time, when I put the round in my gun it did fire, that is when he took it to the gunsmith. __________________ "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" --Samuel Adams

May 12, 2006, 02:53 PM	#13
Donaldo Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Location: Southern Commiefornia Posts: 220	I haven't loaded umpteen thousand CCI primers, but of the approximately 500 CCI-200's I've loaded for my Yugo M24/47 and Swiss K31 I've never had a misfire. Then again, I don't use liquid lube either. I use Hornady one shot. Works great, dries quick (leaves film of lubricant), doesn't foul primers. __________________ Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow. - Isaiah 1:17

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May 12, 2006, 02:07 AM	#1
geronimo13 Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 41	Primer not firing After about 100 reloads shot, 3 didn't fire although the firing pin dimple was there. I'm thinking lube got the primers wet? Anything else to look for? thanks Oh ... cci small rifle #400 primers.

May 12, 2006, 05:52 AM	#2
Yuriens Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Posts: 71	did you try refiring them? A primer not seated far enough might fire on the second try. Otherwise something got on the primers or manufacturing issue. Mike

May 12, 2006, 07:55 AM	#3
BIGRED Member Join Date: March 23, 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 42	That is the #1 reason i stopped using CCI primers. I have never seen this issue since i switched to Winchester primers.

May 12, 2006, 08:11 AM	#4
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Getting lube in a primer can trash it. I've loaded over 4000 CCI 400's since the beginning of 2006 and they all light with a reduced (19lb) hammer spring in my 1911's. Since they are small rifle primers, however, they are made to be a bit harder and won't reliably light if you seat them high.

May 12, 2006, 08:32 AM	#5
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Primer not fully seated is the most common cause.

May 12, 2006, 10:47 AM	#7
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Excessive FL resizing will also cause light primer strikes.

May 12, 2006, 11:07 AM	#8
Superhornet Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: florida Posts: 292	Only if you size incorrectly and set the shoulder back to change the headspace.......not with a rimmed case, not with a straight wall pistol or rifle case. Only with a bottle neck case. Not if you headspace on the belt of a mag.......

May 12, 2006, 11:44 AM	#9
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	Try firing them again. I also think the primers were not seated all the way. If that is not it, you might want to take the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning as it might have dried grease and dirt slowing down the firing pin.

May 12, 2006, 12:13 PM	#10
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	It's very possible for a firing pin strike to crush the primer pellet without detonating it. When this happens, subsequent strikes cannot detonate it.

May 12, 2006, 12:39 PM	#11
BIGRED Member Join Date: March 23, 2006 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 42	so explain how i can load CCI's and have this issue, then change to all Win primers and never see it again. I do not believe it is from incorrect seating depth. I believe it is a quality issue. alot of people have had issues with CCI's.

May 12, 2006, 02:45 PM	#12
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Nobody likes to think that something is wrong with their technique or their weapon - they'd rather fault the components. I've loaded well over 5000 rounds with CCI primers without a single misfire in 9 pistols and rifles I handload for, but my brother's GP100 has misfires with them. Does that mean there's an issue with CCI primers or with his pistol? (my Taurus will almost always light them off afterwards) A possible explanation - it's popular notion that CCI primers use slightly thicker metal cups, and one I generally agree with. If any of the previously stated faults (seated incorrectly, weak spring, gunked up FP) are starting to show up, I think you'll notice it first with CCI primers. If so, switching primers may only be a temporary fix to a larger problem. At the very least it's worth investigating before the blame is placed on the primer. Just my .02...

May 12, 2006, 07:07 PM	#14
geronimo13 Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 41	Thanks all. I did reshoot the 3 at the end of the day and no boom. I took the firing pin out at the range and looked at it and it seemed ok. This is in a Keltec su 16 autoloader and I used veg. oil to lube cases and didn't clean primer pockets. I don't think lube would have got in there though. I don't have any misfires (556) with the mil surplus which has thicker(?) primers. There is no spring on the firing pin. If the primers aren't seated at least flush (i can't feel them being high) I don't shoot them. The excessive resizing allows the cartrige to move forward in chamber makeing the firing pin come up short?